Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

[Heaven's Deamon]

In an attempt to spark some more disscusion, what are some crossover possibilites you can think of with Nanoha? Note that I'm not talking about plotlines, but rather about backgrounds and mechanics, IE how could you tie Belkan or Mid-childan elements into the series or it's history, or it's present?

[Comartemis]

The most obvious one I can think of is one you've mentioned in passing before, HD; the Throne of Heroes (Fate/Stay Night) is a Lost Logia used to contain the linker cores of criminals seen as irredeemable in the eyes of Belkan society. Following the fall of the Empire, the Throne fell into disrepair and began to absorb seemingly random linker cores from around the multiverse; in truth, the Throne's artificial intelligence has detected that the combined spiritual corruption of its' prisoners is beginning to have an effect on it, and has taken to absorbing the LCs of powerful heroes and heroines to counteract the corruption.

[KonokoHasano]

It's kind of weird seeing Elio transformation. He goes into the red piece of clothing while the girls lose all of their clothing before their barrier jackets appear. XD


I think I actually figured out a way to add some Nanoha crossover elements to Wild Magic. The big thing I'm really thinking is possibly doing a minor crossover with StrikerS the summer before Ranma's fourth year at Hogwarts. The crossover would come about because of Laira's thing about assimilating with powerful magic objects, and this would end up bringing the attention of the TSAB.

Hmm... Ranma could honestly learn a little from the encounter.

[Akuma-sama]

In an attempt to spark some more disscusion, what are some crossover possibilites you can think of with Nanoha? Note that I'm not talking about plotlines, but rather about backgrounds and mechanics, IE how could you tie Belkan or Mid-childan elements into the series or it's history, or it's present?

Nanoha is actually VERY easy to tie in with just about anything, in terms of mechanics; "Object X from series Y is a lost logia". It's so easy that I fear it may become an overused cliché very quickly.
(/me is not innocent )
Unfortunately, it's very HARD to tie in with everything for the same reason as crossing DBZ with stuff is next to impossible: Power Levels.
Any attempt to cross Nanoha with other series should By All Means Avoid Letting Them Use Firepower, unless the crossing series have a similar power scale. That's not a bad thing; unlike DBZ, Nanoha characters have explorable personalities that can be used to make things interesting.

Now back to crossover ideas... Well, there was that one idea where a post-StrikerS nearly burned-out Nanoha took Kinomoto Sakura under her wing, so to speak, but I didn't bother exploring it.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Both of those are true, but they are more simplifications. For the "X is Lost Logia" You also have to consider the history of the item in question, how it would work in relation to Nanoha's techbase, and WHY the Belkans would have made it. For the power levels, besides the "sealing" method of robbing a character of their power, presumably so they can teach another character to use it instead, there is also the posibility of simply using the TSAB more than the characters, especially in series with a high Military presence as you could say that an orginization is actually part of the TSAB and is more covert ops, to deal with situations on the world without bringing in offworld tech more than is needed.

An example of how this could be done is the Full Metal Panic series, where you could say that the true source of the "Black Technology" and the cause of the Whispered is a LL, possibly some form of Archive, And Mithril is a branch of the TSAB that was made to deal with the situation. Add in the Terrorist fighting as good way to keep their cover an only higher ups knowing the full truth of the purpose with a large portion of the personel being normal people from Earth......

[Spokavriel]

You might also try saying some items with ancient civilization roots could be from people who were predecessors of the Belkans. Just as long as the Earth is some what recognizable in the series you use that for it shouldn't be too hard to weave something believable.

[Heaven's Deamon]

*raises an eyebrow* um, Spok, why would Earth need to be recognizable? The Jewel Seeds were present because the ship that had been carrying them was attacked near Earth. The Tome of Midnight Sky was here due to it's Reicarnation protocals and could just have easily appeared in another reality instead. There is nothing that I'm aware of in the series to indicate that the Earth itself had any particular importance to the Belkans, infact, the comments that people with active Linker Cores from Earth are rare would, if anything, imply a LACK of importance to a culture responsible for the creation of so many Magic based Artifacts.

[Knight of L-sama]

In an attempt to spark some more disscusion, what are some crossover possibilites you can think of with Nanoha?

One thing that sort of stuck in my head since watching the first season is Precia's reference to Alhazard. My automatic first thought was El-Hazard.

It's not that implausibe either since both series contain dimension jumping and blur the line between magic and technology (in EL-Hazard's case the Priestess's lamps especially). And a fully wound up Ifurita is one of the few characters I can think of that would actually compare in power to Nanoha and co.

and WHY the Belkans would have made it.

You seem to be laboring under a slight missaprehension that all Lost Logia are somehow connected to Ancient Belka but that's simply not the case. The only Lost Logia that is definitevely Belkan is the Tome of Night Sky/Book of Darkness/Reinforce 1. The other known Lost Logia, specifically the Jewel Seeds and the Relics are of unknown origin.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Main reason for that is the Belkans are the only civilization that we have been provided. It's easier to focus on the one named civilization than try to create a new one from scraps. Also, while I'll admit that I've only seen StrikerS up to ep 9 thus far (and being forced to use dial-up right now doesn't help me in seeing the rest) Didn't the Relics have some sort of connection to the Saint's Cradle, which was Belkan in Origin? Or am I off base on that?

[Comartemis]

One plot bunny that's been trying to make a burrow in my head recently is the idea that stabilized and traversable dimension space is the result of a keyblade-wielder, either Sora or his predecessor, opening paths between the worlds, unlocking the power of Kingdom Hearts, etc.

Stories of the power of Alhazard are descended from similar tales about the power of Kingdom Hearts, the legends being distorted by the passage of time. In this case, Alhazard is a reference to the Realm of Darkness that Kingdom Hearts resides in, and Precia Testarossa is in the perfect position to unleash the Heartless on the TSAB. No matter how powerful they are, a Heartless Zergling Rush will be big big trouble for Nanoha and the rest if they're trying to defend Cranagan or Uminari City from the damned things.

Any attempt to cross Nanoha with other series should By All Means Avoid Letting Them Use Firepower, unless the crossing series have a similar power scale. That's not a bad thing; unlike DBZ, Nanoha characters have explorable personalities that can be used to make things interesting.

That's what the forwards are for. If you pit Subaru and Tia against, say, the Sailor Senshi (as in the whole team all at once), they'll have to stay on their toes to be able to come out on top, particularly if the Senshi are being written as competent fighters, with Mercury conducting battle strategy and coordinating attacks from the other girls, Makoto going hand-to-hand, etc. Of course if you throw Caro and Erio into the mix it becomes a whole different story, but it can still be done.

There's also the fact that there are over 200 different identified systems of magic, some of which may or may not trump certain aspects of the Mid-Childan and Belkan systems and place our heroines at a severe disadvantage.

Say for instance that you have Nanoha going up against Emperor Palpatine. It's been established that the Mid-Childan system harnesses the spiritual energy of a person's linker core, but there's nothing in there that says a life energy-based "magic" system like the Dark Side of the Force won't have an inherent advantage over spirit energy, possibly ripping through Nanoha's shields and barrier jacket like it isn't there.

And before you try to claim that Palpatine can't hold a candle to Nanoha in terms of power, consider the Force Storms Palpy unleashes during the Dark Empire comics, never mind that Nanoha and co. will probably have to fight their way through legions of stormtroopers to get to him.

And on that note, Emperor Palpatine is probably one of the worst possible persons who could possibly come into contact with a Belkan Archive like the BoD. Picture Palpy (given the years to prepare that he has during and prior to the events of Eps 1-3) outfitting every single clone trooper in the Imperial Military with storage and armed devices (hell, just give them Knight Armor!), while giving Mara Jade, Vader and his other "Hands" Unison devices, or merging aspects of the Saint's Cradle or the Arc-en-Ciel into the designs of his Star Destroyers. Or just mass-producing the more volatile Lost Logia and using them as interdimensional weapons. Jewel Seed cruise missiles, anyone?

Didn't the Relics have some sort of connection to the Saint's Cradle, which was Belkan in Origin? Or am I off base on that?

The relics were used to awaken the power in Vivio's genes, specifically her heritage as the Saint King's Heir, and allow her to get the Cradle off the ground. If they had a purpose beyond that, I can't recall what it was.

[Spokavriel]

Spok, why would Earth need to be recognizable?

I was thinking more of the other series with that part. I don't know enough about this one to say anything but I felt the need to make that suggestion anyway.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Ah, That would still imply a Belkan origin for the Relics unless you wanted to say something like the Saint Kings being decended from an even older civilization that created the Relics.

[Shadell]

She might actually be telling the truth there. Lord knows she's way more powerful than any of the forwards, but Hayate specializes in wide-area attacks like Diabolic Emission, which aren't really all that suited for one-on-one fights. That's especially true with someone like Subaru, who can get in close pretty damn quick. If Reinforce I was still around, she'd have access to all the spells she gained from draining Linker Cores during A's and it would probably be a different situation, but Hayate and Rein II would be better off using their powers to bring down battleships and smash armies and so forth.

((Caro is largely the same position as Hayate; but she still claimed she wouldn't win because Nanoha had trained her. Besides, none of the forwards can fly.))

Any attempt to cross Nanoha with other series should By All Means Avoid Letting Them Use Firepower, unless the crossing series have a similar power scale. That's not a bad thing; unlike DBZ, Nanoha characters have explorable personalities that can be used to make things interesting.

Hmm... Are the Nanoha cast really that strong? I've seen it asserted several times; but watching the series didn't give me that impression really. Very few of their attacks appear to do that much damage to various other artifacts.

Certainly they have more power then several anime that keep fights at more realistic levels; however, we've never seen an individual do anything anywhere near the level of planetary destruction or even wiping out an entire army/country by themselves.





Hmm.... Nanoha crossovers I'd be interested to see?

Negima hands down. The plots are quite similar. Negi himself is quite like Nanoha was at that age. (Albeight he is more reserved and less quick to act.)

Even the Nanoha and Negima ranking systems are quite similar. (Takamichi is described as being an AAA ranked mage, and I'd be willing to guess his combat ability is at least what Nanoha and co had in the first season; probably more. What's more, given the amount of time/space bandied about in Negima, it would be easy to invent a pretense to have the two casts meet each other.

If you want to tie in Belkian magic styles, then you just have to look at the fact that a good deal of Negi's class are turning into mages; however, the concentration and training needed to cast magic directly will take a while. The ability to use devices would completely erase that time, allowing some of the potential powerhouses to instantly get a lot stronger.

On the other hand, the Negima casts ability to use magic without any item would be a surprise to anyone from the Nanoha cast. Especially considering that people have had trouble with being deprived of their devices and thus unable to act, and you'd have pretty much a fair trade of info.

(And that's not even getting into the idea of using a lost logia to power up Negi's Casseopeia (Assuming it could be repaired)

[Comartemis]

On the other hand, the Negima casts ability to use magic without any item would be a surprise to anyone from the Nanoha cast.

Not really. Yuuno, Arf, Zafira, Nanoha, the Lieze sisters, Lindy and Vivio have all displayed device-free magic use at some point in the series, which says to me that it probably isn't all that uncommon; it's just that there's no point in fighting without a device if you happen to have one on hand.

Hmm... Are the Nanoha cast really that strong? I've seen it asserted several times; but watching the series didn't give me that impression really. Very few of their attacks appear to do that much damage to various other artifacts.

Part of the reason for that is the temporal fields Yuuno or Vita put up around battlefields during Classic and A's. These somehow nullify damage to the battlefield during combat. This strikes me as a plot device; with Nanoha so worried about inconveniencing people, the producers need a way to justify her letting off attacks that can turn city blocks into smoking craters in an urban area, thus the usage of a "zero property damage" spell.

Personally, I think it's most likely that the devices allow the mages to add conditions to the spell templates they use; for instance, Hayate programs a Diabolic Emission spell to only hurt the cyborgs she's trying to capture, then uses it freely right over downtown Cranagan. By the same token, Subaru "sets phasers to stun", so to speak, when using Divine Buster against Gin in her last battle. Gin takes Subaru's most powerful attack at point-blank range and comes out with no permanent damage.

Same thing goes for Nanoha using five simultaneous Starlight Breakers on Vivio, and the Divine Buster she used to smash through the walls of the Saint's Cradle without vaporizing Quattro.

[Uldihaa]

On the other hand, the Negima casts ability to use magic without any item would be a surprise to anyone from the Nanoha cast. Especially considering that people have had trouble with being deprived of their devices and thus unable to act, and you'd have pretty much a fair trade of info.

Just had to point out that mages from the Nanoha series can, and do, cast spells without using a Device, it just usually takes longer. Nanoha casts her Divine Shooter without using Raising Heart (it's sitting on the bench behind her, counting the number of consecutive hits Nanoha lands on the empty juice can) in episode one of A's. She also casts Round Shield when Vita first attacks. And lets not forget Alf and Yuuno, both of whom cast numerous spells without the aid of a device.

From what I gathered from the series is that a Device merely allows a mage to cast spells faster, and with virtually zero chance of miscasting it. It also seems to be able to 'hold' a spell for a limited time so that it's master can modify it before casting; at least, that's the impression I got when Tia fired that 'enhanced' shot at the droid to penetrate it's anti-magic field.

Come to think of it, I think you might have it backwards. Most of the Negima characters can't cast spells without some form of focus, such as a wand, an Artifact, or a catalyst (with the possible exception of Eva and that might be due to her being a vampire).