Japanese Self Defense force

[antimatterenergy]

I was looking into the Japanese military earlier today and I really don't see why they are made fun of so much. The Japanese military even though supposedly only for self defense is not weak. Depending on which sites you look at it has the fourth or fifth largest military budget in the world. It has 309,000 troops, over 800 tanks, nearly that many armored vehicles, around 500 planes in their air force, 119 warships, etc... It's navy is considered amongst the highest in sophistication in the world.

Sure they don't have nukes but beyond that it seems to me that their military is very strong. Ranked 7 in the world overall according to http://www.globalfirepower.com/.

I read somewhere that part of the reason that the US put Japan under nuclear protection in 1965 was to prevent the Japanese from building and stockpiling nukes. I'm unsure of this but I read that in 2002 the Japanese threatened China that it could build over a 1000 nukes within a few years using plutonium extracted from the spent fuel of its more than 50 commercial nuclear reactors (Japan has more Plutonium just siting around than pretty much any country). Even though most of it is not weapons grade that does not mean that it can't be used to make nuclear weapons since the US has built and tested nuclear weapons that used reactor grade plutonium in the 1960's. Personally I don't think they can build that many that fast but a hundred or so is fully possible.

Point of this post, Why do so many people make fun of the Japanese military? I really don't get it.

Also there is a military base in Nermia. Any fics have Ranma encounter it/steal from it?

[CRBWildcat]

Point of this post, Why do so many people make fun of the Japanese military? I really don't get it.

They do? First time I've heard of that.

[antimatterenergy]

They do? First time I've heard of that.

I've read quite a few thing in which they made the Japanese military a joke.

[FriendlyEL]

I thought I heard before that they aren't really supposed to have much of a military ever since WWII. But yeah, I remember when asking someone how hard it would be for China to take over Japan, they mentioned something around the range of "well, you mean how many hours it would take them to do that?"

[Comartemis]

That's really kind of an unfair comparison; China's military is one of the largest in the world, and I think it's almost as well-equipped as the US Forces. All they have to do is land a small fraction of their forces on the home islands and the battle is essentially won... until, of course, the American military mobilizes and starts chucking nukes around (and in an all-out war between the superpowers, you know they'll be flying in every direction). That's one of the fun little clauses of the disarmament agreement; the US of A is obligated to come to Japan's defense if they come under attack.

[Climhazard]

China's military is one of the largest in the world, and I think it's almost as well-equipped as the US Forces.

Well... About "well-equipped". We talk about quality or quantity? Because most of China weapon just a old Soviet stuff. And if i remeber it right, their anti-aicraft systemэы really ancient. But on same time i heard that they want buy license on S-300... Or already do this?

[Daniel Jess Gibson]

I was looking into the Japanese military earlier today and I really don't see why they are made fun of so much.

Because the only real experience most people have with the JSDF is losing to Godzilla, or shooting at Gamera when they should be attacking the other monster.

On a realistic note, they are only allowed to operate after jumping over some rather insane hurdles. Personally, I think they'd lose the first few clashes with Youma or martial artists, then come back with much more efficient weapons and tactics.

Ryoga: Lion Roaring Shot! What's this red dot?

JSDF Sergeant: 1000 kilo Paveway!

Also there is a military base in Nermia. Any fics have Ranma encounter it/steal from it?

Camp Nerima, I don't know if it is JSDF or U.S. Military, maybe Scooter can tell us.

[bissek]

At least the JSDF troops don't train at the G.I. Joe School of Marksmanship. JSDF troops manage to hit Godzilla in combat far more often than the US Army troops did in the American movie. They just didn't have any weapons that actually posed a threat to him.

[Comartemis]

And let's not forget their fantastic showing against the Angels in NGE.

[bissek]

There's a difference between being incompetent and being improperly equipped to do the job at hand. In the Godzilla movies, the JSDF invariably realized that normal weapons wouldn't do much and used them as a delaying tactic until they bring in the latest super-secret weapon (Which unfortunately didn't do much better most of the time).

In NGE, the main fault lied not with the troops, but with the General Staff who refused to acknowledge that nothing short of a nuke could affect an Angel, and that was only good as a delaying tactic. If there were JSDF troops capable of piloting EVA, things might have turned out differently. A lot of the battles would have been much easier if Asuka had been trained to fight as part of a unit, instead of just as a lone soldier. Normal soldiers get that hammered into them at boot camp.

[Scooter]

Camp Nerima, I don't know if it is JSDF or U.S. Military, maybe Scooter can tell us.

Probably Ground Self-Defense Forces. The US Army has only a few bases in Japan, primarily on Okinawa, but Camp Zama/Kastner Army Air Field in Kanagawa Prefecture, and Hardy Barracks in Tokyo.

USAF facilities include Misawa AB (home of the 35th Fighter Wing, as mentioned in Phoenix), in Misawa; Yokota AB in Fussa, Tokyo, and Kadena as well as several smaller facilities on Okinawa.

The Marine Corps is located entirely on Okinawa, much to the distress of the local inhabitants when they decide to act up, while the Navy has Atsugi Naval Air Facility, and Yokosuka and Sasebo Fleet Activities, along with installations on Okinawa.

One thing about the SDF that seems to make it a laughingstock, is that it's where Japanese who can't get into the good schools and good jobs go. It's not like the US Department of Defense, where you enlist for x number of years. The JDA/SDF is more like a civil service job in camouflage. I just wish I had that website in my favorites that mentioned that tidbit.

Oh, and Bissek, about your comment about US troops training at the "GI Joe School of Marksmanship." Unless it's an God's Honest Truth War Movie (a la saving Private Ryan or We were Soldiers), there is no real understanding about military tactics or technical advisers.

If you've seen the live action Transformers movie, they mention SOCCENT Headquarters (and is supposedly filmed there). I've been there, and I can tell you, first hand, that it's not a tent city in the middle of the desert. It's a rather nice base in Qatar, with real facilities, including a Chili's and real swimming pool. Michael Bay had the full support of the USAF AND DoD in the filming of the movie too, and he still got it wrong.

((Sorry about the ranting))

[bissek]

I was actually referring more to the fact that 'America's elite fighting force' puts hundreds of bullets in the air, yet the only thing they can hit is vehicles and artillery, but only after they've been evacuated. Your average Boy Scout troop full of 13 year olds who have earned the riflery merit badge can shoot better than that.

It's the old evil overlord rule 'I shall train my men in basic marksmanship. Anyone who cannot hit a man-sized target at ten yards shall be used as a target.'

Tactical ability is a different consideration.

[Scooter]

I was actually referring more to the fact that 'America's elite fighting force' puts hundreds of bullets in the air, yet the only thing they can hit is vehicles and artillery, but only after they've been evacuated. Your average Boy Scout troop full of 13 year olds who have earned the riflery merit badge can shoot better than that.

It's the old evil overlord rule 'I shall train my men in basic marksmanship. Anyone who cannot hit a man-sized target at ten yards shall be used as a target.'

Tactical ability is a different consideration.

Well, then there's that whole "If we show blood and gore, our rating'll have to be 'R'..." thing too.

[lwf58]

A) It's basic reality that only about 1 shot in a hundred or so is ever aimed. Most are sprayed in the general direction of the target to make him keep his head down and spoil his aim when he's shooting at you. That's true the world over. It's why back after the Viet Nam war, the US instituted a program of using pop-up targets that were shaped roughly like a head and torso for rifle training. Its job was to condition soldiers to reflexively fire at man-shaped objects suddenly entering their field of view. In Viet Nam, not only were most rounds fired not aimed, most soldiers just ducked behind cover and never fired at all. Because of that program, you can watch footage from Iraq and see most soldiers actively shooting, even when they can't see their opponents (a much harder job than you'd think). It's also why when you do see the bad guys, they are almost always firing from the hip, instead of aiming. They don't get that intensive training our guys do.

B) The reason the Japanese Self-Defense Forces are so large and well-armed is because back when they drafted their current constitution after WWII, the budget for their military was set as a percentage of the GNP. When they gained the prosperity and international trade they have now, the military budget got to be freakin' huge. Since the forces are relatively small, that means they spend all that money on keeping the equipment up-to-date.

The Japanese are nuclear-capable. They don't have bombs, but that's because they choose not to. There's nothing in their constitution that forbids them.

[Raneko]

If you've seen the live action Transformers movie, they mention SOCCENT Headquarters (and is supposedly filmed there). I've been there, and I can tell you, first hand, that it's not a tent city in the middle of the desert. It's a rather nice base in Qatar, with real facilities, including a Chili's and real swimming pool. Michael Bay had the full support of the USAF AND DoD in the filming of the movie too, and he still got it wrong.
((Sorry about the ranting))

One of the reasons why they probably didn't show the real SOCCENT, is that it wouldn't have worked for storytelling and Visual reasons.

The caption would of said Qatar. But the base would have looked liked any you would find in the US. It would have thrown the audience for loop at the start of the film.