Which charachters are you tired of seeing sanctified?

[FriendlyEL]

Since there was a thread about who we were sick and tired of seeing put in a negative light, I decided that I would start one on the other end. So, any of you tired of certain "Saint (insert name)" fics?

For me, Ranma is one. Not that I don't like him, but why the heck does everyone assume that he completely looses his foot in mouth disease that makes him who we love? Why is he all of a sudden the most incredibly honerable and upstanding mr. citizen? Seriously, it's actually sort of depressing watching him loose any personality.

I have alot of other's, but I thought it would be more fun to hear everyone else's thoughts on this before mentioning them.

[bissek]

Kasumi. As far as I'm concerned, she knows what her sisters do to Ranma, knows that what they're doing ranges from wrong to totally inexcusable, and never punishes them with more than a mild chiding (and that rarely). She's supposed to be an authority figure in that household, and yet she never does anything to moderate the behavior of her family. Sins of deliberate inaction can be just as bad as sins of action.

As far as I'm concerned, Ukyo is the nicest of the three fiancees, but that being said, she is most definitely NOT a saint. She's closer to that goal than the other fiancees, but she still isn't in sight of the finish line.

Edit: BTW, the correct term is canonized, not saintified.

[Jester_of_doom]

Gotta agree on the Ranma thing. I understand its hard not to help out the characters you like in a story but man, way to many have ranma suddenly lose all his flaws AND gain a ton of good aspects he really shouldn't have.

[three headed dog]

I don't like when character's straight out lose there flaws either gradual bettering of themselves is much better. Personally I'd say Kasumi is the one that bothers me the most, because she is considered saint like seemingly in every fic. While Kasumi is nice and doesn't usually hurt people she doesn't really help people either. She has done things that aren't so nice as well. Like sending Ranma into the bathroom knowing that Akane was in there and knowing what Akane's reaction would be. When Akane had a cold and Kasumi and Nabiki went on a trip Kasumi gave Akane a mallet so she could protect herself from Ranma, putting into Akane's head that Ranma would do something. Kasumi helped drape cats on Ranma after learning about Ranma's fear of cats. Kasumi washed all of Ranma's clothes and forced him to wear girl clothes. Kasumi has used the fact that Ranma's a guest at the tendo's to boss him around "You're a guest here aren't you?". Kasumi has on a few occasions said something that made an already bad situation for Ranma worse. I get the impression that she doesn't like Ranma.

[FriendlyEL]

When Akane had a cold and Kasumi and Nabiki went on a trip Kasumi gave Akane a mallet so she could protect herself from Ranma putting into Akane's head that Ranma would do something.

I was really ticked at Kasumi when she did that. Anyone who wants to tell me that she wishes Akane would stop hurting Ranma, I reccomend rereading that scene.

threeAs far as I'm concerned, Ukyo is the nicest of the three fiancees, but that being said, she is most definitely NOT a saint.

I think the reason she has the reputation is because of the reason you mentioned. But really, saying she's the best person of the fiancees is hardly saying much is it? Calling Ukyo a saint just because of that fact is like calling the valetictorian at your local adult rehabilitation center a megabrainiac genius.

But if she was male, she'd be demonized for the crap she does.

[Uldihaa]

Kasumi helped drape cats on Ranma after learning about Ranma's fear of cats.

While I agree that Kasumi is far too often depicted as flawless and angelic, I have to correct this. Kasumi didn't put any cats on Ranma, the two that were doing this were Soun and Nabiki. While she is shown holding a pair of cats, and in the next panel no longer holding them, she's not actually shown putting them on Ranma. It's possible that she did, but it's equally as possible that Soun and/or Nabiki took them from her arms and put them on Ranma.

[bissek]

That's still knowingly abetting an act of torture.

[three headed dog]

While I agree that Kasumi is far too often depicted as flawless and angelic, I have to correct this. Kasumi didn't put any cats on Ranma, the two that were doing this were Soun and Nabiki. While she is shown holding a pair of cats, and in the next panel no longer holding them, she's not actually shown putting them on Ranma. It's possible that she did, but it's equally as possible that Soun and/or Nabiki took them from her arms and put them on Ranma.

My statement isn't wrong. I didn't say she put cat's on Ranma, I said she helped. If nothing else holding the cats is helping.

[FriendlyEL]

Another that's softened up way too much in my opinion is Shampoo. I guess that's another example of people basing her personality on the anime, where yes, occasionally she was somewhat sympathetic.

And is it me, or does anyone else find it unlikely that Nabiki is supporting the family financially?

[bissek]

That theory came from the facts that Soun is never seen working (and the dojo doesn't have students) and that Takahashi never really does anything to show what Nabiki spends the money from her schemes on.

It's been discussed several times both on this board and the previous incarnation of the board, and I believe the consensus was that even if she was that considerate of her family (Which she definitely isn't), the level of money she racks in on a monthly basis isn't enough to support one person in an area with a low cost of living. The Tendo household has to support six people in an area with a high cost of living. It just isn't possible.

[Drawde]

That theory came from the facts that Soun is never seen working (and the dojo doesn't have students) and that Takahashi never really does anything to show what Nabiki spends the money from her schemes on.

Nabiki was shown buying a scalped concert ticket with all her savings once. Ranma and Happosai accidentally destroying it led to some viscious behavior on her part to Ranma, to pay back for it.

[bneef]

Even though I have used these characters in somewhat positive lights...

I dislike Cologne. I always have. I think it's a cop out on having her wise old teacher without her acknowledging she is afraid of Ranma, especially Neko-Ranma.

Next comes Ukyou. I have come to view her as insane as Kodachi, just not to the same intensity. I base this on her introduction. She attacks Ranma, after he acknowledges her as his old friend. Then she switches to "loving" him when he calls her "cute." Of course, there's also the belief using bombs against Akane would endear Ranma to her (or Shampoo.)

Shampoo is in the same vein as Cologne, though I like her more.

Ryoga is another. For many reasons.

[Zwzn]

For me, Ranma is one. Not that I don't like him, but why the heck does everyone assume that he completely looses his foot in mouth disease that makes him who we love?

Ranma does talk to people other then the NWC very differently.

How often does he actually put his foot in his mouth? I don't recall it being often, and those times I remember are at the begining or middle.

Why is he all of a sudden the most incredibly honerable and upstanding mr. citizen? Seriously, it's actually sort of depressing watching him loose any personality.

I think Ranma has a code of honor, but I'm not sure what it is exactly.



Nabiki being a nice caring person is enough to make me stop reading a fic.

Kasumi actually caring about Ranma's well being is OOC, but not so bad.

[claymade]

For me, Ranma is one. Not that I don't like him, but why the heck does everyone assume that he completely looses his foot in mouth disease that makes him who we love? Why is he all of a sudden the most incredibly honerable and upstanding mr. citizen? Seriously, it's actually sort of depressing watching him loose any personality.

Seconded, very much so. Turning Ranma into the "abused innocent" of the series, as is so often done, is about enough to make me want to gag. I much prefer the canonical Ranma--arrogant, self-centered jerk though he can be at times.

I think it's a cop out on having her wise old teacher without her acknowledging she is afraid of Ranma, especially Neko-Ranma.

Given that there's really nothing resembling proof of this conjecture in canon--and indeed, much evidence to gainsay it--I fail to see how people who do not chose to toe this particular line can be accused of a "cop out."

[FriendlyEL]

Next comes Ukyou. I have come to view her as insane as Kodachi, just not to the same intensity. I base this on her introduction. She attacks Ranma, after he acknowledges her as his old friend. Then she switches to "loving" him when he calls her "cute."

Not to mention that she couldn't help to get "revenge" on him for that too, or that she was just as careless about innocent bystanders as Mousse or Ryoga (which her fans conviniently never mention).

Of course, there's also the belief using bombs against Akane would endear Ranma to her (or Shampoo.)

Or forcing him into slave labor, or beating him up for no reason, or wrecking his mom's property... although in her defence it took the influence of Shampoo to get her to get really bad.

Ryoga is another. For many reasons.

Go on...

How often does he actually put his foot in his mouth? I don't recall it being often, and those times I remember are at the begining or middle.

Not quite as much as in the anime, but I remember it is occasionally there. I will agree that he would be alot nicer if he was treated better, but he still has an occasional smart mouth.

Although, as an example, I remember him going on during the Bust Battle arc talking to Akane about "flashing her tata's". Maybe he didn't mean any harm by it, but I could see any girl get irritated with that (just not do to him what Akane did).

Also, later on during the story where the two help (the third to last volume) Konatsu and Ukyo with the store, he's the one who keeps rubbing in how he will not let Akane cook, and claims later takes pride that she can make okonomiaki that kills people.