Genma the villain of Ranma 1/2?

[Spokavriel]

Sepuku, It is the only way to honor (Without dishonoring anyone) all of Genma's honor obligations in Ranma's name. Aside from that you mean?

[Noy Telinú]

The thing is, so many people want him dead that it's expected. But Genma did do the most damage. He shaped Ranma mentally and physically, abusing him in nearly every category.

Who did more? Herb? Saffron? Ryoga? Akane? Ryu? That's ridiculous. Anybody can want to kill someone or try. But Villians can do worse.

Genma hurt Ranma is so many ways, much more than others. If anyone came closest to ruining Ranma's happiness, it was him.

That's my view, anyway.

[Spica75]

Glenda is a Good witch relative to the other witches. That doesn't mean she isn't still a Witch.

Ehm, so a witch is by default automatically evil? That´s an odd view...

[Gnudist]

Ehm, so a witch is by default automatically evil? That's an odd view...

every female student who has ever attended hogwarts is evil!

Run harry don't let them get you!

[Crescent Pulsar S]

The thing is, so many people want him dead that it's expected. But Genma did do the most damage. He shaped Ranma mentally and physically, abusing him in nearly every category.

Genma hurt Ranma is so many ways, much more than others. If anyone came closest to ruining Ranma's happiness, it was him.

That's my view, anyway.

See, that's what I'm saying. "Genma hurt Ranma in so many ways," you say. "Did the most damage," and, "came closest to ruining Ranma's happiness." How? Where's the proof of this? In what way has Ranma turned out worse than every other weirdo and nutcase in the series? Overall, Ranma came out better than quite a few characters, I'd say.

To address the first quote: And aside from the neko-ken, seems to be holding up just fine.

To address the second quote: Same answer as the first.

To address the third quote: This is called empathizing, not fact. What happiness did he almost ruin, and who's to say that any potential happiness was endangered beyond making a guess at it? Anyone who knows Ranma's character well enough should be able to tell that this is not a real problem for him. Ranma's strong and stubborn, and -- in the end -- takes in stride problems that many lesser men wouldn't be able to deal with, and he probably has his father to thank for that kind of fortitude. It could be argued that he shouldn't have to deal with this or that problem, but his and ours are different, and we can't rightly use our experience and opinions to judge what he can, can't and shouldn't handle himself. (He's a fictional character, besides.)

Who did more? Herb? Saffron? Ryoga? Akane? Ryu? That's ridiculous. Anybody can want to kill someone or try. But Villians can do worse.

A worse thing than death argument? Seriously? Okay. Does Ranma try to kill himself, or even wish that he were dead? I didn't think so, so Genma couldn't have done worse than those who have wanted (and still want) him dead.

Genma's all kinds of bad; that is not in question. But look at him. Living under the same roof with two families, he seems right at home. He's eating at the same table, joining in various group activities, and has a safe place to sleep. He's welcome there, accepted, and at times even respected. After everything he's done there and has been known to do, in front of or to the very people he lives among, he's not treated as a villain. The answer to that is simple: it's because he's not. And if not to the characters in the series (which is what really matters, here), how could he hope to be the villain of the series, much less the main one? (Also, Ranma isn't hostile toward his father as a rule, or otherwise hates the man. While their father-son relationship to any one of us is strange and/or bad, it's normal for them. Or maybe Ranma just doesn't mind villains because... he is one himself! Like father, like son! Dun-dun-dunnnn!)

There's a reason why I voted for "neither agree or disagree," and a part of that reason is because I have to assume that there's some relevance to fan-fiction in regard to this (as the description of this forum states). I completely understand how someone could view Genma to be a villain, and why they might want to portray him as such in fan-fiction. But that doesn't make it right to use false equivalency ("well, if it was looked at seriously, instead of how it was intended") to justify anything as being the reality, and ignoring how the reasonings and answers that are spawned by it don't match with how things are in the actual reality of the canon. If Genma being the villain of the series is your opinion/view, that's fine: just don't express it as if it's a true representation of the canon, because you don't need to formulate arguments to support opinions.

Sepuku, It is the only way to honor (Without dishonoring anyone) all of Genma's honor obligations in Ranma's name. Aside from that you mean?

That's an assumption. It may be more relevant in the real world, but if it had been relevant in the series then it would have most likely come up, where there would have been one or more stories on how Ranma would have to avoid killing himself because of conflicting obligations. (You know, like how he had to avoid doing something worthy of seppuku several times because he had to honor a certain pact.)

And as for honor obligations, there are only two remaining: Akane and Ukyo. And it's questionable whether Ukyo is one or not, considering the circumstances leading up to her status being reinstated as a fiancee and why there would be any concern over one marrying the other while such an arrangement was made. (Remember, Ukyo (along with Shampoo) attacked Akane during the "wedding fiasco" to try to get rid of her rather than raise her (supposedly equal) claim to keep the stalemate going, to get more time to win Ranma over if nothing else. Removing an obstacle via death is an understandable way of resolving the matter for Shampoo, whose claim holds no water to anyone but herself and Cologne. Why should Ukyo feel the need to act so desperately? As if murdering someone (anyone, really) right in front of him would be endearing or something... <_<; )

[Phoenix]

I suppose my vote would have been neutral or agree somewhat but dang it if I couldn't resist the potato..

Its difficult to go back and look objectively at his character since it was a long time ago I watched the anime. My opinion has definitely been colored by fanon since then. Still ive never considered him evil. he's done some terrible things and nothing can really excuse the neko-ken but fics where he is truly evil usually rubs me the wrong way. Think he is more selfish than anything else.

Genma isn't a saint but i think he's redeemable and i like him the best when hes written as such. Where he has regrets and expresses true concern for his son, acting like a parent for once.

[Spica75]

Mmm, the difference between doing evil and being evil.

I suppose my vote would have been neutral or agree somewhat but dang it if I couldn't resist the potato..

[Noy Telinú]

because no one sees him as evil, just stupid, makes him a better villain.

No one cares really what hew did. And Ranma looking on the bright side is all on him, not Genma.

Ranma can't get near a cat without huge consequences, never experienced a mother's love before Nodoka showed up and Genma wanted it that way. Judging by him being shocked that Nodoka would uphold the pledge, he wasn't allowing Ranma to go near Nodoka just so that he could control him. All the stuff Genma did wrong is pushed onto Ranma. Ranma is emotionally stunted due to Genma showing so little to him that HUGGING his son causes Ranma to freak out! Genma knows what buttons to push to get Ranma to do something stupid and DOES.

What are the major problems Ranma tries to solve in fanfics?

Cure the curse. (Genma's fault)
Solve the fiancee mess. (Directly half Genma's fault, indirectly half Genma's fault.)
Be a man amongst men. (wouldn't be a problem if Genma didn't force Ranma to sign it.)

Yeah, that seems very villain worthy to me.

[LawOhki]

because no one sees him as evil, just stupid, makes him a better villain.

No it doesn't, because he doesn't do any villainous things.

Ranma can't get near a cat without huge consequences,

He runs away screaming. This is the one bad thing that Genma has outright done to Ranma and guess what? It's just because he's not the brightest and thought he was training his son in an unbeatable technique.

never experienced a mother's love before Nodoka showed up and Genma wanted it that way.

And Nodoka happily went along with it and promised to kill Ranma if he didn't live up to her standards. Some love she would have gave him. Realistically Ranma would have grown up with a mother constantly nitpicking his every action.

Judging by him being shocked that Nodoka would uphold the pledge, he wasn't allowing Ranma to go near Nodoka just so that he could control him.

No that shows that he's very much the better parent. Genma is reasonably consistent with being accepting of Ranma and the situations he's in. Genma never intended to go through with the contract is the only conclusion that can be drawn. Nodoka will.

Ranma is emotionally stunted due to Genma showing so little to him that HUGGING his son causes Ranma to freak out!

No male teenager is ever going to want to be publicly hugged by his father.(period)

Cure the curse. (Genma's fault)

Genma's not cursed? Ranma hit him in first after all.

Solve the fiancee mess. (Directly half Genma's fault, indirectly half Genma's fault.)

So when does Ranma make an attempt to solve the mess?

Be a man amongst men. (wouldn't be a problem if Genma didn't force Ranma to sign it.)

Wouldn't be a problem if his mother wasn't insane and fully prepared to go through with it. Genma certainly never attempts to make Ranma a man amongst men. In fact the few times they duel over a possible cure, he's more concerned with getting himself fixed. So no, Genma doesn't force Ranma to be a man. Ranma with a curse is just fine.

Yeah, that seems very villain worthy to me.

I don't trust your judgement in the least.

[Noy Telinú]

So do you think anyone is a vilain in Ranma 1/2 then?

[LawOhki]

So do you think anyone is a vilain in Ranma 1/2 then?

Not particularly.

The style of story isn't a monster/villain of the week, it's situation of the week. Either due to a misunderstanding or a characters flaw causing problems. Saffron is about the only one who can fit as a villain but again the situation was more due to the Phoenix being arrogant and the Ranma crew being just as arrogant.

[Noy Telinú]

Fine, fine...

How about the father of the girl who looks like a boy and was raised to be one in Rumiko's previous manga that I can't remember the name of. I think of him when I have Ranma be born a girl.

[Gnudist]

Fine, fine...

How about the father of the girl who looks like a boy and was raised to be one in Rumiko's previous manga that I can't remember the name of.

Urusei Yatsura?

[Spokavriel]

Fine, fine...

How about the father of the girl who looks like a boy and was raised to be one in Rumiko's previous manga that I can't remember the name of. I think of him when I have Ranma be born a girl.

Sounds like a description I heard for a guest at http://www.furinkan.com/maison/ Maison Ikkoku But for some reason I can't even find her in the characters lists.

[khammel]

Interesting discussion. But, who loosed an unfettered Genma UPON Ranma?

Nodoka.

And, yes. I DID use 'potato' as a stand-in for Nodoka.