Seven Shadows Question.

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Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:19 am

I know the Seven shadow Warriors are Anime only. But I have to ask. Was it bad translation or didn't Beryl actually order them to be recovered as well as the Rainbow Crystals?

If that honestly was the order why wasn't the goal to kidnap the crystal carriers to extract the crystal and restore the warrior in their own domain?

Why didn't it at least change to that after the Sailor Scouts proved all too able in restoring the Warrior to the Mortal Human reincarnation?

Was it ever addressed in interviews with the TV production crew or anyone writing on the series?
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:33 am

A couple dozen people have looked. Isn't there anyone who can at least confirm the original language orders and stated intentions from the orders?
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Spokavriel wrote:
If that honestly was the order why wasn't the goal to kidnap the crystal carriers to extract the crystal and restore the warrior in their own domain?

Why didn't it at least change to that after the Sailor Scouts proved all too able in restoring the Warrior to the Mortal Human reincarnation?

The answer to your questions, by answering just these two questions, is quite simple: monster of the week. The best that could be done was to extract them wherever they're found and hope to make away with the crystal while the shadow warrior is distracting the senshi. No matter what is said, the actions speak clearly enough, and the anime forces such situations to occur whether it goes against common sense or more discerning plans (aka logic). Basically, the circumstances have to provide the promise of a fight and an actual opportunity to get the crystals themselves, since it would be quite another story had Beryl gotten all seven of them.

Beyond that, I can't help you.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:56 pm

Thank you. But if you think back to the series there was a sequence with mass kidnappings that had the Senshi and Tuxedo recover the victims before. And what about kidnappings precludes a chance at a monster of the week? They sure had one in the episode where Rei became Mars.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:03 am

Yes, but it all happened in the telling of one episode and climaxed with a fight that solved the problem (as usual). I get what you're saying, but it's just not in the same frame of mind that the producers of the anime were thinking because -- unlike us -- they stuffed their minds into a box. They had no choice but to set up each episode in the same way, and to save any major deviations from that formula when a particularly significant change or turning in the plot needed to occur.

If the people behind the anime weren't the ones thinking for the bad guys, I'm sure that said bad guys could have come up with the kind of plan you're suggesting. Heck, in the manga, three of the senshi were kidnapped during the black moon story arc before they went to the future because -- unlike the anime -- it wasn't concerned with character exposure or cookie cutter episodes. That's how you end up with really dumb anime episodes that serve no purpose other than to fill up another episode's worth of time, like the one where Ami actually had trouble deciding whether to stay or study abroad. "Gee, should I stay and help protect the world, or should I worry about living a mundane life that I might not get to experience because my friends and fellow protectors might need my power or insight at some critical point in the future?" Right... :roll:
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:00 am

It still leaves the question of what was actually stated and what that means as far as expressed intentions for original language. It also makes me wonder why everyone going over the same time frame has been lazy enough to not explore the kidnapping possibility.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:32 am

Well, while I'm very critical about the anime and the manga concerning certain things, I don't think that the orders given in Japanese would have strayed so far from the actions that we see repeated every time. Which itself would make one wonder why their strongest soldiers are used as throwaways instead of a potential resource for a plan of grander scale and/or design, since it required splitting the ginzuishou into seven pieces to take care of them along with everything else.

And if you're referring to fan-fiction writers in your second statement, it's probably because they didn't build the plot around that idea, or an idea where Beryl is meant to have such a distinct advantage that she's supposed to end up with all seven of the rainbow crystals virtually uncontested. They'd also have to consider whether they want to deprive their story of some significant number of fight scenes by using that route.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:39 am

Wait. Who ever said anything about uncontested? A Kidnapping takes allot more active action in Tokyo. Look back to the Mars introduction. To have that work Jadite had to be active in the area constantly. You have to know more than just where the target will be in a single moment to achieve the capture. That leaves just as much if not more chances for interference by the Senshi. Not to mention multiple chances at targets if the Senshi don't come up with their own way to extract the crystals.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:48 pm

That doesn't make any sense. Jadeite's mistake was that, despite not needing to kidnap any particular person at any particular place or time, he kept kidnapping people using the same method at the same place and time. Otherwise, under a different plan, kidnapping (for whatever reason) in and of itself could have been (virtually) uncontested. (Because, if I remember correctly, Jadeite was trying to get energy in addition to luring the senshi into a trap. Any evildoer wise enough knows not to show patterns in their actions, lest they're playing a sort of game and wish to challenge the detective(s), have the desire to be caught, or intend to lead the investigators in some way for a certain reason (like a trap).)

Also, that activity is still summed up within one episode, in a few words and scenes. Summarized action offers little in the way of substance, thus real action. Now, had the kidnappings occurred over several episodes, to actually build up to a climax with some weight behind it... And you have to remember that Jadeite pulled off his stunt with the bus in a highly-populated area of Tokyo without a hitch, when we know he has easier options in the area. That more than likely means that there really wasn't a lot of work/challenge involved, especially considering his ability to easily insert himself somewhere (selling charms at Rei's shrine, for instance) or to fabricate something and have it accepted as real (such as the cruise liner). The fact is, he and a lot of baddies in Sailor Moon have a lot of sway over their environment, of who they can pose as, what kind of authority they wield, and what medium they can use for their plan. Look at how easily Nephrite got away with his method for so long, by moving around in person under the same guise. The senshi never interfered until after all of his work was done to his target.

The only reason there's any sort of interference is because the senshi almost always have to fight a baddie by episode's end, which requires anything done from a logical standpoint to take that into consideration as if it's the word of God. It really restricts what the baddies can do, which is unfortunate. You could probably blame the sentai genre for that.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:01 pm

I have a simple answer.

The generals suffered from a serious case of Critical Intelligence Failure.

Jeidite was an idiot, who if he had half a brain, would have actually put one of those 747s in the air and then had them come around and ram the runway where the Senshi were standing. (Sailor Moon has Dodge +10, but that's not going to save her from a 300 mph 60 ton firebomb being chunked at her.) He could Taxi them well enough. Though if operating the flaps and getting one airborne was just too much, just turning the things and throttling to max, he could have sucked the girls into the turbofans. 26,000 RPM titanium fanblades will tear you up.

Nephrite was probably the smartest of the group. And was slowely making progress. If not for realizing how much nicer the human world was and getting killed as a traitor, he probably could have won. (The fact that he was all but ready to defect shows he really was the smartest.)

Zoicite was a jackass, and a moron. If he'd been less concerned about laughing and gloating, and more concerned about doing his job, he could have won long before he got to his deathtraps.

Kunzite was blinded by his own anger. He had the no-nonsense attitude, raw power, and grit to get things done, but was hung up on petty vengeance and retreated too much when he should have gone for the throat from the start. Since he dawdled like a fool for too long, the Senshi gained the EXP needed to push him into a corner, where Usagi plot-crystalled him, resulting in killing himself with his own attack.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby CRBWildcat » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:35 pm

Personally, I don't think Jedite was really all that idiotic as regards the airplanes. Wouldn't you have to know the ins and outs of those things to the fullest to know how to use them correctly, whether you're using magic or otherwise? That doesn't strike me as a simple feat by any means, and unless we know for a certainty that he had that experience, I think he can be excused for his actions.

Of course, there's also the matter of the group being incinerated by a tremendous fireball; if that happened, that would be an awfully short and pointless series, wouldn't it? :wink:
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:08 pm

It's not actually that hard to fly a 747.

He knew enough with what he was doing to get that thing off the ground.

Flying it safe when it's full of people, that's challenging. But it can be taken off, banked around, and brought slamming down into the tarmac.

As for the 'short' series shtick, that's not a functional excuse for debating the what-ifs. It is instead, a copout.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby CRBWildcat » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:32 am

I'll take your word for it as far as the lack of difficulty in flying it goes; I'm rather leery of the things. Still, I'm going to take another look at that episode later and see for myself; I don't think I'll be able to entirely buy the rest of it until I refresh my memory.

As for the 'short' series shtick, that's not a functional excuse for debating the what-ifs. It is instead, a copout.


Copout or not, it was intended to be more of a mild attempt at getting a few chuckles out of someone than of a valid excuse for anything in particular. I apologize if it came off that way to you.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:11 pm

To put it this way, I'll give you a brief explanation.

A 747 is designed to fly. So easy a caveman can do it.

Once Jeidite has the engines running, it's just a matter of getting up enough speed for takeoff, raising the nose, and climbing away.

Lowering the flaps shortens the takeoff distance and lowers required takeoff speed, but Haneda is a big airport, and the 747 is empty. The only real factor is how heavy the fuel weight is. Which can be anywhere from a few percent to full tanks. Though there will be plenty of fuel in those tanks no matter what. Aviation regulations require an hour of resserve fuel in the tanks at laning short of emergencies. Which means that at the absolute minimum, the thing has an hour of fuel in it. Plenty to fly it and crash it into the Senshi. If it's got a full amount of fuel, which is unlikely until right before flight time, then it'll be much heavier. And even then, the total fuel on board is flight dependant.

Once it's airborne, so long as he doesn't try to fly it like a fighter jet and nose up into steep climb, it's very HARD to stall as 747.

Of course, in aviation, they have the saying. Takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory. Landing is a bit more complicated than takeoff, as you're trying to effectively glide the craft to a safe landing on the runway. Since Jeidite has no reason to do anything 'safely', that's not an issue.


As for what makes flying a 747 'hard'. Well, you're trying to safely control a two story office building with wings. Most of the work is safety checks and failsafe procedures to make sure your office building isn't going to have any problems. It's not so hard as that it requires a lot of attention to those procedures constantly because the captain's got 200 + people under his care the whole time while he's trying to fly in such a way that it almost seems like you haven't left the ground.
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Re: Seven Shadows Question.

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:51 pm

You do realize his magic is kinda forcing an on switch. The General knows nothing of any of the levers inside. He willed the vehicles to activate and is directing them at the Senshi. That they are moving at all is about as far as his magic over them goes and he hasn't even seen inside the cockpit to have an idea of what to do to make it go faster. So while a Cave man could get off the ground a Caveman still has eyes on the controls. Jedite doesn't and doesn't show any signs of bothering to do so.
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