P-chan: Guilty or Innocent?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Ryoga's masquerade as P-chan is perhaps one of the most controversial aspects of Ranma 1/2 fandom, perhaps even greater than the Ranma/Akane relationship. Knowing one person who feels Ryoga is a scumbag for being P-chan, and another who thinks Ryoga is justified because he's had to live without human contact for the majority of his life.

And so I was inspired to make this poll, to find out just what stances people take. Keep in mind that this is not asking "does Ryoga do perverted things as P-chan", this is asking "do you think it's alright for Ryoga to be P-chan"?

[Spokavriel]

Your poll options aren't that great. Ryouga is a coward when it comes to his own emotions that don't involve rage, depression and revenge. He is taking advantage of Akane for companionship. And using her against Ranma. For those and later lieing through omission to Akane and using Ranma's honor against him all say he's guilty.

But your poll doesn't really seem to have what he is guilty of as a response. Just sympathy or an option for roasted piglet.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I maybe chose the wrong title for this. The secondary question in the poll itself clarifies things; what's your stance on Ryoga's masquerade? Do you think it's alright, do you think it's wrong, do you think he has reason to be doing it but admit that he shouldn't be doing it, do you think he's wrong for doing it but you can understand why he's doing it?

[Spokavriel]

And in my post I explained my thoughts about his motivations. And then I said it is wrong. And that he is guilty. But reading the tone of your poll options doesn't really seem to be fitting a scale and two of them just seem to be "ok I guess" Maybe it wouldn't seem like it's off if they were in order starting and ending with the absolutes with the degrees in favor or against in between.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Well, if you can recommend a better set of stances (those were the only ones that came to me, hence why I added an "Other" just in case there were stances I missed), and tell me how to alter a poll, I'll replace it.

[Crescent Pulsar]

He acts honorable, and should know that being Akane's piglet is wrong, so there's no excuse for being a hypocrite. His loneliness is no excuse. You wouldn't feel sorry for a rapist/molester and call them a hopeless romantic, would you? Ryoga is a scumbag that doesn't live by the same principles he often accuses Ranma of lacking. And the time when both Akari and Akane were at his house was a good example of his selfishness.

I could go for some roasted piglet.

[Spokavriel]

Strange you should say that Crescent. Just look at the stories of Don Juan. I believe he was a character that was a Rapist who is one of the most frequent pointed out romantic references.

[Crescent Pulsar]

The reasoning of mankind is the last of the great mysteries. ;p Besides, I think he got what he deserved, in the end. (Or, at least, in one of the tales.) Roasted Don Juan... Mm-mmmm, good.

Also, while I've never read any stories of Don Juan, I believe he escapes the label of rapist because he seduces women. Which is more or less a "gentle" rape, since it's merely a different means for the same end. But certain people contemporized it as being nothing more than rude, that someone on the receiving end had to be vigilant about. Well, if they cared about it, anyway.

Go figure with humanity, right?

[Spokavriel]

And you think Ryouga would be any less gentle if he got it into his little pig head to overcome his shyness and try something like that?

But in cannon he is too bashful and then after that too much of a frightened wuss who didn't want to risk Akane's anger. To the point where he really would continue trying to kill Ranma to avoid his little secret coming out.

[Crescent Pulsar]

He can be pretty aggressive when his shyness and fear are nullified, as demonstrated by the waterproof soap story, as well as the one where he gets to date Akane and Ranma tries to break it up by pretending to be his fiancee. He's too self-absorbed by his own needs and feelings to do much of anything that could be considered seduction, whether he's shy, afraid, or otherwise.

Although I can't really say that I understood what you were arguing against, or if you were arguing at all. If it's about the whole "rapist/molester" thing that I brought up, I only used it to illustrate the skewed logic one would need to make Ryoga's behavior seem acceptable. That, and I thought it'd be a good opportunity to refer to some of Carlin's material.

[Nekomata-sensei]

I'd say what it comes down to is even Ryoga believes what he is doing is wrong, otherwise he wouldn't be afraid of Akane finding out and would have admitted his curse to her, if only so that she could help him get hot water on occasion and protect him from Ranma, because he certainly would trust her more than he trusts Ranma, if only he'd admitted it before he allowed it to become such a mess. Ryoga knows Akane would think he is taking advantage of her as P-chan, and he probably realizes he is, but ignores his guilt over that for selfish purposes.

If Ryoga really respected Akane he wouldn't do this sort of thing. On top of this, he holds it over Ranma's head, placing Ranma in an untenable position, and gets Ranma in trouble with it when Ranma is only trying to defend both his honor and Akane's, rather than letting Ranma help him not take advantage of Akane, he uses the chances to ruin Ranma's reputation with Akane by resisting Ranma's efforts to keep P-chan away from Akane and out of her room.

Because of this, and other reasons, I consider Ryoga a villain, his willingness to use the koi rod on Akane is only further evidence of his dark side, not to mention the incident at his house with the two girls, and how fast he moved on the supposed 'fiancee' onna-Ranma posed as in order to split up his date with Akane, despite her seeming uncomfortable with his actions when he began to behave that way once they were alone.

I'm not saying Ryoga is without honor or good-sides, just that he is unreliable in following them to the point he's part of the problem, rather than the solution, and typically winds up in the villain role. After all, the best villains believe they are doing the right thing, they just don't use their morals while doing it as well as they should. Examples could include the likes of Magneto from Marvel Comics, Sasuke from Naruto, the Doom Tree kids from Sailor Moon, or Iori Yagami from King of Fighters.

[ChasTaro]

First I've seen more of the anime than the Manga, so my opinions will be based off of that.
With that said, my beleif is that deep down Ryoga knows what he is doing is wrong. His fear of Akane finding out that he's P-chan is proof of that. Ryoga has called Ranma a thief for steeling HIS bread, because before Ranma got there he always got the free bread. By that logic Ryoga is also a thief for steeling the bread from the other boys who were trying to get the bread. Of course he convinently ignores that. Ryoga is using Akane, Early in the series before he started going on about how he loved Akane he saw Ranma get angry when Akane snuggled him as P-chan to her chest. After that every chance he got he used Akane to strike out at Ranma. That's not the action of an honorable warrior. Also he knows Ranma and Akane are engaged by a honor vow, and to break the agreament would cause shame to Akane and Ranma's family's. He dosn't care that Akane would loose face, he just wants to hurt Ranma. He just tries to justify what he's doing by saying he's doing it to protect Akane, and started to believe his own lies. Basically he's a 6 year old in a teenagers body, That when he's asked who broke something says Ranma instead of Not Me! Don't get me wrong, Ranma's no saint.
But this thread isn't about Ranma's faults.