Really Hard Videogames

[Gaming Ikari]

So, who else likes their games brutally hard? I mean mindwrenchingly, soulcrushingly hard? Like, "Devil May Cry 3 on Dante Must Die" levels of challenge?

I've beaten Ninja Gaiden 2 Master Ninja difficulty. I'm currently playing through Devil May Cry 4 on Dante Must Die so that I can unlock Hell or Hell. So far these two games are two of the few which actually kept upping the challenge enough to warrant multiple playthroughs.

So... do any other challenging games come to mind? Does anyone else thrive on games with this sort of difficulty? Am I completely insane?

[Spokavriel]

I think you're nuts. Then again I can't think of any Video Game I ever played with the goal of beating the game. Maybe I'm nuts but I just play to have fun.

[Gaming Ikari]

I'm the competitive type when it comes to games. Originally I used to focus on playing twitchy fighting games like Street Fighter III or the Dead or Alive series... but the problem is that the AI for games like that is only so good, and unfortunately my friends don't enjoy fighting games like I do.

I dunno. There's something fun about having to time things just right, dodging an attack by the smallest margin possible so that you can close on the enemy and slam them for the quarter-second their guard is down. Especially when the only thing separating you from defeat is frantically dodging attack after attack and not getting hit, all the while hitting your nigh-invulnerable opponent over and over again until you crush them beneath your heel.

Now that I look at that last paragraph, I quite agree with your assessment Spokavriel.

[Crescent Pulsar]

I like difficulty so long as it's not the kind that's merely tedious, or is counter-intuitive and abandons the logic and tactics that's supposed to get you through the game.

Makes me think of an SNES game called Lagoon. I found it challenging, and yet most of the challenge came from having to use a toothpick-sized sword. You had to learn how to get up close and personal without receiving damage, or you'd be toast.

[Nekomata-sensei]

I somehow recall my numerous battles in Escape Velocity: Override against the Dreadnaught, mostly failed, but with a rare few successes when I was at the top of my game or in a particularly good ship and playing well.

I also remember Sonic Adventure (I think the gamecube version, but possibly Dreamcast) playing through levels over and over again to get the A (or was there an S?) ranking in order to collect all the emblems.

I was never as crazy as to beat an already crazy hard game in it's hardest modes, mostly because I usually wasn't good enough at the games that were that hard to even complete them in the easy modes, but I _did_ get all 151 of the original pokemon back in Blue version, including an official Mew from the Nintendo special event, rather than a sharked version, without cheating, and on a separate throw away red copy catching Missingno just because I wanted to have all of them but not risk my good game to a bug, and a beat the elite four more times than I can count. On the other hand, I never actually leveled up a pokemon to level 100, which is something I'm a bit embarrassed by, but I really preferred level 50 battles for some reason, and I didn't like letting my favorites for link battles get past level 50.

I also got them all on gold (or was it silver, I can't remember) version, but the mew for that was sharked, although I think the celebi was official. I also didn't shark the mew in directly, but sharked it on a red version and traded it if I remember correctly, because my Blue version's data had been erased and I'd lost the official one.

Oh, and I went and collected all the trophies in Super Smash Brothers Meelee, but from what I've heard that isn't that much of an accomplishment. Same with all the hearts and items in Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but I'd used a player's guide for that as I couldn't beat the water temple without it, so that also isn't much of an accomplishment given how easy players guides can make Zelda games. Yeah, and I once got all the stars in Super Mario 64 and met Yoshi, and was strangely frustrated and disappointed.

Hard modes can be rather scary. But I often will play the easiest mode where the AIs of a game aren't completely dumb, unless I'm just trying to finish it to unlock storyline stuff, then I just do easy mode as quick as possible.

[Spokavriel]

One of the most difficult games to play I have ever come across is AirWolf on the NES. The controls just aren't configured in a way similar to any other game so it makes it a major PITA to do anything at all in the game.

[CRBWildcat]

I was never as crazy as to beat an already crazy hard game in it's hardest modes, mostly because I usually wasn't good enough at the games that were that hard to even complete them in the easy modes, but I _did_ get all 151 of the original pokemon back in Blue version, including an official Mew from the Nintendo special event, rather than a sharked version, without cheating, and on a separate throw away red copy catching Missingno just because I wanted to have all of them but not risk my good game to a bug, and a beat the elite four more times than I can count. On the other hand, I never actually leveled up a pokemon to level 100, which is something I'm a bit embarrassed by, but I really preferred level 50 battles for some reason, and I didn't like letting my favorites for link battles get past level 50.

I also got them all on gold (or was it silver, I can't remember) version, but the mew for that was sharked, although I think the celebi was official. I also didn't shark the mew in directly, but sharked it on a red version and traded it if I remember correctly, because my Blue version's data had been erased and I'd lost the official one.

I didn't get into the Pokemon craze until the S/G/C series came out, and that was just because one of my friends was bragging that he couldn't be beat at those games and I didn't like how he was talking. I bought Silver first; Yellow came a few months later, and except for the Event-related Pokemon I was able to complete the Pokedexes for both games (I've restarted Yellow several times since then, just for the sake of beating the game with different teams, so I don't have the proof anymore). I didn't spend my time obsessing over it, though. (Now my Sapphire version...that I obsessed over. I think my cartridge has more than 700 hours, last I checked.)

I generally prefer to play games when I'm relaxed, though. If my heart's pounding while I'm trying to get past something, I don't think I can truly say that I enjoyed it (and with my health, it's not really safe, either). It's why I've been frustrated off and on with Metroid Fusion's gameplay (my nerves were actually jittery at one point), and it's the primary reason why I've never tried doing something obscenely difficult (like trying to make a 15% collection run on Zero Mission's Hard difficulty).

If I was into hard games, I'm fairly certain I would've played I Wanna Be The Guy at this point. Now that's a violation of common sense if I ever heard of one.

[mondu_the_fat]

Depends on the nature of the difficulty of the game.

For example, I hate racing games, mainly because the computer cheats in most of them. Even if I win, it feels like the computer "let" me win by not cheating as much as it could have. Likewise, Sf2:st is a difficult game, but that's because the computer cheats like mad, and to win you have to exploit AI strategic weaknesses that absolutely would not work on a human. If you treat it like a good human player, it will cream you.

Nethack I enjoyed. It's likely one of the hardest games I've seen, but when you lose in that game you know precisely why and how you lost. The computer would do some truly nasty tricks, but it didn't do things it wasn't supposed to be able to do. No walk forward into blanka ball or magical rubber band racing cars. Likewise, I enjoy freeciv on hardest mode, even if it did take me a year to get the hang of it.

[CRBWildcat]

I've been playing Nethack and its older versions since the late 1980s, and never once have I managed to beat it legitimately. It's annoying, but it's still fun; and it's not like the game's time-based, so I can still take my time playing it whenever the urge strikes. Farthest I've gotten dungeon-wise was the mid-twenties.

I've heard that some of the possible deaths in Nethack can get pretty weird, though. For instance, when you're asked what level you want to teleport to, it's possible to enter a negative number---and, unless you're a species that can fly---end up falling to your death.

[Makoto]

I'm the competitive type when it comes to games. Originally I used to focus on playing twitchy fighting games like Street Fighter III or the Dead or Alive series... but the problem is that the AI for games like that is only so good, and unfortunately my friends don't enjoy fighting games like I do.

Have you tried those two at maximum difficulty? Someone I know (who's also an SF3 and DOA fan ^_^) always ramps the difficulty setting on any game he plays to the highest setting, first thing. Not that he's a master player, though.

Makes me think of an SNES game called Lagoon. I found it challenging, and yet most of the challenge came from having to use a toothpick-sized sword. You had to learn how to get up close and personal without receiving damage, or you'd be toast.

Nah, playing with almost nonexistent swords is nothing new for me (I think I had to do that in one or more of the old Ys game ports (1/2/3).) But Lagoon? I found that game far more annoying than challenging, at least when it came to the constant need to tow NPCs around... they walked very slowly, and could get 'lost' extremely easily.

And yes, I did play NetHack, too. Probably should download the latest version again.

[Spokavriel]

You want a game where it feels like the only way to actually survive much less win is when it eases up on cheating try Formula One Built to Win on the NES. No matter how much you modify the car or spend time in Vegas getting funds to make sure you have the most options available for doing so there are parts of the game which without the Game Genie I doubt I would ever manage to see the first 3 cars much less win a race.

[Screwball]

I like hard games, up to a point. After that, they just start getting painful. Stuff like The Adventures of Bayou Billy, for example, is just too hard... and stupid (Oh God, my bullets bounce off of him! But wait, this bullwhip can penetrate his steel hide!).

[mondu_the_fat]

You want a game where it feels like the only way to actually survive much less win is when it eases up on cheating try Formula One Built to Win on the NES. No matter how much you modify the car or spend time in Vegas getting funds to make sure you have the most options available for doing so there are parts of the game which without the Game Genie I doubt I would ever manage to see the first 3 cars much less win a race.

What the heck...

I downloaded it and was cheating the hell out of the game with game genie codes (reaching impossible speeds; without codes the maximum was around 120kph, with codes its 255, even on a collision) and I still can't outrace the lead 2 cars.

[Spokavriel]

LOL I told you! The thing is the lead car somehow seems to gain the Game Genie benefits too.

[Gaming Ikari]

Ah, NES. What a wacky system.

I remember when I was a kid, and couldn't distinguish between Hard-but-fair and Hard because of bad design. My friends and I used to love games like Clash at Demonhead, Battletoads, and Milon's Castle.

Those games will always hold a special place in my heart, which is why I refuse to go back and play them. I'm afraid that without the nostalgia filters, they'll show me just how UNfair the difficulty truly was. Especially Milon's Castle.