Some thoughts on Jyusenkyou

[nuclear death frog]

Y'know what? I've thought a lot about this and I don't think it's canon unless it's IN the material, because comics are a form of art, which is subject to interpretation. As I interpret the art as it has been presented to me, the curse cannot be cured by another curse. Blanketed, MAYBE... but not cured. That's as far as I'll go on this.
If it were TRULY as simple as a dip in the spring of drowned man, then the guide would have taken Genma and Ranma to the spring of drowned man. To have a "cure" like that would destroy the entire point of Jyusenkyo... "Oh, you're a guy that's been cursed? Well, who cares about the tragic story, the cures right over there, my friend! Now just be more careful next time!"
...
I don't think so.

And if the guide did that, that sort of screws the pooch for the whole plot of the series.
After all, if Ranma isn't cursed, literally almost the entire series from that point falls completely apart. Especially because if Ranma's not cursed, there's much less reason for Kasumi and Nabiki to fob him off onto Akane -- which ****s up Takahashi's intended pairing big-time. Manga Nabiki's a complete bitch but in my opinion it's at least somewhat conceivable that she might not be quite as predatory with an uncursed Ranma; and Kasumi...well, if you need an explanation there, you're hopeless.

[Lightspire]

Exactly! It just doesn't make sense for them to be cured! The entire series would be practically pointless. Or at least a LOT less entertaining... So there CAN'T be a cure for Jyusenkyou curses. It just wouldn't make sense! And I don't wanna go off on a tangent, here, BUT...
:Insert Jimmy Cochraine impression:
Ya see, a cure to the curses of Jyusenkyou... is like Chewbacca. Now, Chewbacca is a six-foot-tall wookie, who comes from a planet of a whole bunch of itty bitty wookies. Now does that make sense? No, and it is just like this case for cures to Jyusenkyo curses. It just don't make sense!
:End Jimmy Cochraine impression:
There it is. The Chewbacca Defence. I didn't want to have to use it, but my hand was tipped.
Really....
Err... MY GOODNESS, A GIANT RUBBER CHICKEN!!!

Runs away, phases thru convenient wall.

[Sunshine Temple]

yeah... no going off on spammy tangents
you've been warned.

[Togashi Gaijin]

Exactly! It just doesn't make sense for them to be cured! The entire series would be practically pointless. Or at least a LOT less entertaining... So there CAN'T be a cure for Jyusenkyou curses. It just wouldn't make sense!

*sigh*
Rules Of Canon Behaviour:
-------------------------------
#1) The original author is always right.
#2) If the original author creates something that doesn't make logical sense - see Rule #1
Ranma manga fact: Using nanniichuan on Ranma *will* cure his Nyanniichuan curse. Source: Rumiko Takahashi - refer to Rule #1 and Rule #2.
C'mon - this isn't rocket science.
-Togashi Gaijin-

[Lightspire]

OK, I give up. I surrender. My idea has failed. My attempt to make this a light chat rather than people basically doing nothing but calling my theory pointless has failed.
Though I'll admit, the rubber chicken and what-not WAS a bit much... (Though I still stand by my chewbacca defense... )
And I still stand by my theory. And really, I don't actually CARE if the curse can be cured or not. That was the REAL tangent...Excess muss that I thought I'd put in my two cents about...
That's it, I guess.

[Zwzn]

As far as the whole "the curses mix" issue, there are several times that the "nannichuan" seem to be the "fix" for the curse: the japanese nannichuan and instant nannichuan, both of which only show how conniving and desperate the cursed really are. Let's not forget the "last cask of Nannichuan" from the jusenkyou guide for Ranma's wedding present. That one doesn't make sense, as the guide knows what would happen should Ranma get splashed with it(spring of drowned hermaphrodite would be my best guess), unless it's meant for his wife.

Actually it *is* meant for Ranma. Canon manga fact: Naniichuan water *will* cure a Nyaniichuan curse. Canon manga source: Rumiko Takahashi (several print interviews)
-Togashi Gaijin-

While I only count what is writen in the manga as canon. I can see how Naniichuan water might cure his curse. Opposites offten cancel each other out. So the Naniichuan water may only really work for Ranma, and anyone else who tried to use it would have gotten a mixed curse.

[Lightspire]

OK, that wasn't it. I concede on the cure. I concede for whatever people say can and can't be done with Jyusenkyou water. I apologize for spamming, I was trying to take heat off of myself, (and let myself, possibly others have a break in the seriousness...) and let things get a little less technical.
This thread wasn't supposed to really be about whether Ranma can be cured. Like I said earlier, the xtra stuff tacked on after the analyzation of character traits was just that. extra stuff to fill in the technical aspect of jyusenkyou magic. I got it wrong because I don't have a mind for technical trappings. I prefer abstract.
Togashi: You are absolutely correct. You did not change you stance, and it truly beat my attempts at deflecting around the fact. I apologize for arguing like a stubborn ox.
(y'all thought I was gonna say pig, didn't ya? Nope, not me...)
MaximumZorch: You have a point. In fact, you gave a wonderfully concise and direct answer to my main theory. I'm sorry for not addressingyou, previously...(and to any others I forgot to address...) And I AM writing a story... I'm just fielding the theories that I want to use NOW so I don't get flamed later. But it didn't seem to really help in that aspect... then again, I can be stubborn and ask for it, it's a fault.
I'm moving to spamville. After all, I head to the internet so I STOP thinking, not beat my head against a wall attempting to defend a lost debate...
(I'll still stop by, to ask questions when I have them, though.)
And c'mon, ya gotta admit, the chewbacca defence was funny, AND a part of my real defense... I use it all the time as a metaphore...)

[Togashi Gaijin]

Heya Light
I don't mind the stubborn bit - I've been known to outstubborn a cat myself, so I am definitely familiar with the trait. I certainly don't harbor any ill will in your direction, either. I can, however, offer a few suggestions on how to approach subjects like this in the future. Your main pitfall was trying to define canon behavior using theories which were obviously in conflict with canon fact.
There's nothing wrong with making up a set of rules on "How Jusenkyou Works" to support a storyline you're using - provided you know ahead of time where those rules deviate from the canon and how you are going to handle the resulting critques. Nearly every Ranma fanfic author does so. As long as you are consistent in how you handle and present these effects most readers will accept these "canon deviations" as necessary plot devices. Jusenkyou was, after all, one big plot device from Takahashi in the first place.
The problem comes when you try to attribute these variations as Official This Is How It Works In Canon facts - especially when obvious and contradictory evidence exists. The best "worst example" of this sort of non-existent canon behavior centers around Nabiki and the whole "she supports the Tendos financially" bit - which exists without a single shred of evidence to support it (and *plenty* of countering evidence against it).
All you had to do to prevent the inevitable "canon argument war" was to state "This is how I need Jusenkyou to behave to make my story work. Is it consistent? Does it make sense? What can anyone see that's going to create obvious problems?" Approaching it in this manner would have gotten you constructive feedback and comments, instead of having others look are your arguments and think "uhhhhh ... riiiiiiiiiiiight". While I can't speak for others, I know I was nearly to the point of mentally placing you in the "what a maroooon" dust bin - which would have had me simply ignoring your posts from that point out.
The reason the subjects of "canon behavior & facts" are argued with such vigor is that it is important for authors to know exactly what *IS* canon - so that they know precisely how they are deviating from it. A fanfic is, after all, "non-canon" by definition. Readers accept this, but they also tend to prefer stories which start out with canon settings and character traits and then evolve away from these baselines in a believable manner.
I'll get off the soap box now.
-Togashi Gaijin-

[Lightspire]

Yeah, I definately should've given the disclaimer. I'm just glad I was able to salvage what little dignity I could muster... I'm honestly new at talking on forums, which is completely different than human interaction... (ie. I can't do an impression like I would in real life w/o looking foolish...) plus, on the computer I can get...hyper, which tends to dumb me down a bit.
This wasn't really meant to fight canon... (after all, no matter how someone perceives something, it doesn't change what it IS...) And I got carried away with it...
Now, since I do enjoy conversation, there IS something you brought up that I'd like to explore. Maybe I should start a new thread for it, but...
I find the Nabiki supporting her family thing IS plausible...maybe not probable, but definately plausible. After all, where does the money go?
(just trying to start conversation... not attack canon....)

[nuclear death frog]

I find the Nabiki supporting her family thing IS plausible...maybe not probable, but definately plausible.

Why do you think that?
At no point in the manga does Nabiki ever rake in any amount that would come close to supporting *one* person in Tokyo, much less a family of four. I don't know where it ranked during the run of the manga (IIRC, Sept. 1987 to Feb. 1996) but these days Tokyo is REALLY DAMN EXPENSIVE to live in, and the amounts Nabiki cheats people out of simply do not cover the needed sums. Nor have they ever done so.
Furthermore, even if Nabiki *were* pulling in that much money, it would be ludicrously out-of-character for her to spend it on her family, because she simply doesn't care about her family that much, and never has.

[Togashi Gaijin]

Furthermore, even if Nabiki *were* pulling in that much money, it would be ludicrously out-of-character for her to spend it on her family, because she simply doesn't care about her family that much, and never has.

Correct. Takahashi's Nabiki is about as amoral a character as you can get - in spite of VIZ's inadvertent attempt to soften her character a little by deliberately mistranslating at least one key spot in the manga.
-Togashi Gaijin-

[Lightspire]

Allow me to restate that, as it was worded poorly before. I believe that Nabiki assisting in helping her family is plausible. Does she support them? I'm certain she could cover for a repair or two... They certainly have enough of them. And yes, Soun has a job, but civil servants aren't paid THAT much... government jobs are taken for the stability, not the cash-flow. Would she give the money over for repairs right out? Probably not, but I'm certain she'd loan the money at a very, very low interest rate...
And as for her not caring about her family, I just don't think that's true. The entire point of nabiki becoming engaged to Ranma was so that she could get Ranma back together with Akane. (And make some money on the side) Plus, depending on how often she sells photos, she could rake in a tidy sum. When she sold those photos to Kuno for the first time we saw, it was for five-thousand a set. A little less than fifty-dollars. Plus, she runs the betting pools, which could probably make her a good amount of cash. After all, she wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable... And even if that wasn't so, nickels and dimes add up.
Where do you propose the money goes? I rarely see her buying things for herself, she has other people for that... She never appears to pay for her own meal when out, and also doesn't appear to have a collection of "things" in her room. She doesn't even have a computer.
can she support her family on her own? Very doubtful. Could she provide financial assistance for when pipes break and martial artists go through the roof? Certainly.
But I really must say that I've never seen her as a heartless mercenary. She may be a capitalist at heart, but I'm sure she does HAVE a heart...

[nuclear death frog]

And as for her not caring about her family, I just don't think that's true. The entire point of nabiki becoming engaged to Ranma was so that she could get Ranma back together with Akane. (And make some money on the side) Plus, depending on how often she sells photos, she could rake in a tidy sum. When she sold those photos to Kuno for the first time we saw, it was for five-thousand a set. A little less than fifty-dollars. Plus, she runs the betting pools, which could probably make her a good amount of cash. After all, she wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable... And even if that wasn't so, nickels and dimes add up.

First, I don't believe Nabiki cared at all about getting Ranma and Akane back together until she saw how genuinely hurt Akane was. But it's been a while since I read that arc so maybe I need to revisit it.
Second, fifty dollars from photo sales to Tatewaki Kuno doesn't match the THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EVERY SINGLE MONTH needed to support *four* people in one of the most expensive cities on the planet. And even if Nabiki was selling photos to more than just the Kuno boy, most people wouldn't buy that much -- partly because they're less obsessive and stupid than he is and partly because the Kuno family is incredibly wealthy whereas most Japanese high school students don't have jobs (therefore, much spending money) because their schools don't allow it, and Tatewaki's family has likely been that rich for generations considering the size of their estate.
Third, THERE ARE NO BETTING POOLS IN THE MANGA. Not only are there NOT betting pools, but at some of the points where they could be conceivably run, i.e. *pre-scheduled challenges*, Nabiki DOES NOT SHOW UP. I don't remember all of them from the list on the old board, but there were several. I think they were: Ryouga's introduction, Ukyou's introduction, Ranma's match with Mousse, the Martial Arts Rhythmic Gymnastics match, and possibly the Martial Arts Figure Skating match, and others. I can't remember seeing Nabiki at a single one of those, and all of them would have been ideal places for betting pools if there were any such things. But they don't exist in the manga; they were invented for the anime.
Fourth, when it comes to nickels and dimes adding up, see my second point. Supporting a family of four in Tokyo would take THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A MONTH, *every* month. Nabiki NEVER demonstrates that kind of earning power, or even more than an extremely small percentage of it. It is *ludicrous* to believe she does.

[Lightspire]

OK, got it. I don't want to argue with you. Nabiki is a heartless, moeny-grubbing, petty crone who doesn't even make much cash while she's at it. YEESH...

[Sunshine Temple]

OK, got it. I don't want to argue with you. Nabiki is a heartless, moeny-grubbing, petty crone who doesn't even make much cash while she's at it. YEESH...

Light. Don't get all uppity when the other side has such things like the actual costs of living in Tokyo, how much Nabiki actually made durring the series.
It's also remarkably poor form to respond with absolutes like that.
They showed that Nabiki DOESN"T make that much. This is called arguing by evidence.