Need help choosing weapon(s) for Ranma

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Need help choosing weapon(s) for Ranma

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:56 am

For a future fanfic of mine, I was intending to have Ranma study the ways of the Swordmage, from D&D 4e. For those of you who haven't heard of this class before, it's an Arcane Defender and is basically a warrior-wizard who weaves magic around themselves for protection and channels power through a sword to create deadly spells that kind of resemble "special attacks". Swordmages can use any of what D&D classifies as Light Blades or Heavy Blades as a 'focus', but the problem is I'm not sure which weapon to have Ranma use- or even if he'd only stick with one or would pick up several different ones for different uses. Can anyone help me with this dilemma?

To help make things easier, here's a listing of all the Light and Heavy Blades that Ranma can choose from, with basic details (that, hopefully, are at least somewhat accurate).

Light Blades: these swords are orientated towards finesse. While not neccessarily incapable of cutting, they are aimed far more towards piercing, both literally and figuratively.
*Dagger: your basic long knife, designed to be thrust through flesh into some artery, organ or other vital spot. Daggers can be thrown or wielded in either hand.

*Sickle: basically a scythe scaled down to be a hand-held weapon, the sickle cuts quite easily and is balanced enough that it can be wielded in a person's off-hand. The sickle, known as the kama, is a traditional weapon in Japanese martial arts.

*Shortsword: basically the intermediary stage between the dagger and the longsword, the shortsword is longer than the dagger, which makes it valid as a slashing weapon, yet still short enough that piercing attacks are a valid option.

*Katar: the "punching dagger" is a short, stabbing blade that is either attached to the back of the wrist or has a special, handle-like grip that the wielder holds onto so that the blade projects from his knuckles.

*Rapier: the archetypical Light Blade, the Rapier is orientated towards fast thrusting attacks, agile footwork and deft parrying. Because it's so orientated towards striking "the sweet spot", though, it doesn't do much damage if the user misses.

*Shuriken: this weapon hardly needs explanation; a bladed throwing weapon that is functionally five throwing daggers joined hilt to hilt to form a star-like arrangement.

*Kukri: a variant of the dagger, this short, curved blade is orientated more towards slashing (with the edge on the inside of the curve) than piercing.


Heavy Blades: subtlety is not a big concern for these swords. Heavy blades are orientated towards one thing; brutality. They tend to be slow and clumsy compared to their Light Blade cousins, but they make a lot more of a mess.
*Scythe: the war-scythe, the farmer's polearm altered to be a true weapon, is a rarity in the real world and is generally restyled to more of a glaive-like weapon, but it's a valid choice in the fantasy setting. It's cheap, fairly easy to use, and makes a decent mess for the money you spend.

*Longsword: the most basic sword of all, the longsword has had dozens of variants in the real world alone. When you get down to it, the style Kuno practices is pretty much a regional form of longsword.

*Scimitar: this short, curve-bladed sword is keenly honed and well-balanced, allowing it to deliver truly deadly blows if used well.

*Falchion: this is a wide-bladed, single-edged sword that is actually used more like an axe or cleaver- it epitomises the 'hack and chop' method of swordplay rather than fancy manuevers like most other swords.

*Glaive: a type of polearm, a glaive is a sword's blade attached to the tip of a staff. A regional variant, the naginata, is one of the four 'main' weapon-use styles still taught in modern Japane.

*Greatsword: what could be more simple than the greatsword? Sometimes known, somewhat redundantly, as a two-handed sword, a greatsword takes a basic broadsword and sizes it up so that it takes two hands to use it. It isn't usually the fastest or most fancy of weapons, but it will cleave through just about anything.

*Bastard Sword: this sword is the intermediary stage between long/broadsword and greatsword. It's large enough and heavy enough that it can be swung with two hands, but also light and balanced enough that one-handed usage is equally valid.

*Broadsword: this weapon is similar to the longsword, but its blade is shorter and wider- it's more focused on slashing than the longsword's balance of thrusting and cutting.

*Khopesh: the weapon, in the real world, was the primary melee weapon of the ancient Egyptians and is basically an intermediate stage between axe and sword. The Tomb Kings of Khemri, from the Warhammer Fantasy game, also wield khopeshes.

*Fullblade: two words really sum this weapon up quite nicely. Greatsword Plus. The fullblade takes the basic principals of the greatsword, and then makes it even bigger. Fullblades make a hell of a mess when they hit someone- for the best example of a fullblade in action, see Guts of the manga/anime BERSERK. Particularly during his stories as The Black Swordsman, where he wields the biggest of his swords (I think- I admit I've only seen the anime, which only covers the "Fall of Griffith's Hawks" storyline).

And if all of these don't cut the trick, there's also the Double Sword, which is, like the name suggests, two longsword blades projecting from either end of an elongated hilt (or sometimes shortstaff).
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Postby Knight of L-sama » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:13 am

To me at least naginata would seem to be the best fit. Ranma and Genma have been shown sparring with bo staves in canon (anime canon at least) and he's shown with one occasionally in official art as well and the naginata, to mee at least, would be the closest in use and style to what Ranma already knows how to use.
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Postby Dumbledork » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:56 am

How about a katana, even if it's not listed in the book? No one prevents you from making up your own weapon.

But of the choices listed I'd say that the Katar would fit Ranma best since he could still use his martial arts. He could wear one on each hand.
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Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:37 am

Under the rules, a katana would be either a longsword or a bastard sword, depending on the particular model, so it is a valid choice by default. But wouldn't that choice of weapon have rather unpleasant connotions in Ranma's mind, given that Kuno is a kendoist? Especially seeing as how two of the cantrips (well, basic spells) allow the swordmage to alternatively blast the enemy with thunder (Booming Blade) and to conjure a lightning bolt from the sword's tip that electrocutes an enemy and drags them within reach (Lightning Lasso)?
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Postby FOG3 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:06 am

A Katana falls under the Saber family of swords by blade profile. If you're going to collapse sabers in the same category as long swords, you might as well collapse the entire category into Long Blades as you do not and cannot use them the same way. One of the major differences being a Katana especially is designed pretty much from the ground up to slash with tip 1/4 of the blade, you do that with a straight blade and you get a giant tuning fork.

There's a lot more that makes a Katana different from blades with the same blade profile as well. Realistically they're extremely overspecialized for slashing unarmored targets and not really useful in general warfare. The blade bevel is to acute for dealing with armor, and it's not really designed to block or do pommel locks in the western style.

Game Mechanics are designed for game balance in keeping a game fun, they tend to simply wreck written works, so absolute adherence isn't quite warranted. If you had to fit it in Western straightblade categories it however should be a Bastard Sword as unlike a Wakazashi it is designed to allow for use with both hands on the handle, although it can be and was often enough used one handed. If you want the true slashing power you do need both hands and to slide one of the hands while swinging.

I know the CRPGs like Baldur's Gate had a seperate category for oriental blades. Did 4th edition drop that?

I'm personally going to say a dagger or long sword, actually cut-and-thrust sword ala D'eon's or Umi's, would be appropriate, only because a Rapier is also a dueling weapon. A blade that can be used for quick as opposed to powerful strikes is appropriate to Ranma, who's characterized as fighting in exactly that manner. The dagger probably being the most appropriate due to it's armor piercing properties and ability to be crammed between armored plates, in all the variety of forms including the Japanese Tanto. Plus unlike long blades it would allow the whole martial arts speel to still happen while the blade is present, instead of the blade combat having to overwrite the other. Not to mention a Tanto is less likely to raise issues with the Sword Laws, and doesn't have the "when and where did he pick up THAT" hanging over it.
Last edited by FOG3 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby lwf58 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:25 am

Knight of L-sama wrote:To me at least naginata would seem to be the best fit. Ranma and Genma have been shown sparring with bo staves in canon (anime canon at least) and he's shown with one occasionally in official art as well and the naginata, to mee at least, would be the closest in use and style to what Ranma already knows how to use.


There's a problem with having Ranma use a Naginata. From his point of view, it would carry a bit of a stigma. It's considered to be a girls' sport, and is what girls take as an extracurricular activity. Boys learn kendo. For Ranma to choose something that is thought of as a girl's weapon seems unlikely to me.

There are three ancient weapons taught in clubs in Japan that I know of. Naginata (naginatadou), mostly for girls, katana (kendou) mostly for boys, and yumi (kyuudou) for both. (Yumi are the asymmetric bows used in Japan.)
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Postby Nadrek » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:39 pm

The obvious first answer is: Let Ranma study an exotic weapon, not one chosen from a very basic list.

The obvious justification is: Just like 13th Warrior, perhaps he was handed some other weapon, and customized it for his own use.
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Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Actually, sabres are rolled into the Scimitar profile, or perhaps the Falchion- 4e dropped the 'oriental weapons are in their own category' thing.

And, good point; the glaive/naginata is traditionally considered both a woman's weapon and a weapon for defending home territory, which means Ranma would be rather... hesitant to weild one. I can't help but wonder if the author is saying something when she depicts Soun Tendo wielding one (for example, manga revelation of Ukyo's engagement to Soun (I think), during the Ukyo's Secret Sauce story)...

Also, just so folks know, I wasn't planning to pull a "Dungeonmaster Route", where Ranma gets handed a sword that gives him his powers immediately, but more along the lines of him finding a sort of 'beginner's technical manual' or an instructor and then choosing a weapon, either from a stashed armory or by simply buying it.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:48 pm

I kind of figure that crescent moon knives (aka deer horn knives) would be perfect for Ranma. They're a step up from bare fists, but provide blocking of weapons/blades, capability for disarmament/breaking of opponents weapon, and acts as a stabbing weapon.
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Postby Spokavriel » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:12 pm

I know it isn't so important to selecting weapons in a campaign setting but for the story it may come up. Just how are the weapons used with the spells for this specialty? And are there any weapons which might be easier to write the effects with?

It's not just a matter of fitting in the class so much as can you make this effect work in your story?
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Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:27 pm

Well, basically, when the swordmage casts a spell, the energy they unleash is focused into and through the blade they wield, which means most spells are thusly delivered by striking a blow. Some others are projected through the blade but otherwise function like ordinary attacks, some temporarily alter the properties of the sword, while yet others (the utility spells) are focused into the swordmage himself to augment his efforts. For examples...

Greenflame Blade: the swordmage's weapon ignites with arcane green fire, causing its next blow to burn and spatter hungry flames around.

Silversteel Veil: a thin blanket of wispy silver mist rises up around the swordmage and nearby allies, hardening to a steely consistency against enemy blows.

Electrified Lash: bolts of lightning explode from the tip of the swordmage's upraised weapon, striking all enemies around them.

Seed of Fire: the sword plants a "seed" of magical fire in its victim, causing them to erupt into flames the moment that the swordmage pulls free.

Ironskin: the swordmage temporarily makes their flesh into something like living metal, rendering them far harder to hurt.

Acid Fountain: the sword's blade transmutes into dripping acid and explodes forth in a corrosive burst, then retreats back and reforms into a solid weapon.

Meteor Strike: the swordmage engulfs their blade in flames and hurls it an enemy, the weapon striking them and flying off to attack other nearby threats before returning to its master's hand.

Bounding Lightning: the sword is transformed into a bolt of lightning that the swordmage can throw at enemies, skipping from foe to foe before returning and resuming its true form.

Vorpal Doom: the sword's blade becomes silvery in color, temporarily sharpened to supernatural levels.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Postby Spokavriel » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:41 pm

In the Iron Skin would you have the Mage's skin become like the alloy of their blade or is it instantly the hardness of Steel no matter which blade is used at the time?

And can you really see all of the weapons you listed fitting with these skills?
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Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:13 pm

Ironskin just makes the user's flesh preternaturally hard and colors it metallic. I was being more dramatic than I should have been, so I apologise- it's a defensive spell, designed to make the swordmage harder to hurt by infusing their flesh with protective magic.

And I don't really understand what you mean by that second comment. Could you please explain?
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Postby Spokavriel » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:17 pm

Ok. Do you have it clear in mind how each weapon will be used. And can all the options you presented fit with all the spells you listed without it seeming awkward to put together the fighting scenes in your mind?

Edit: What I am pretty much suggesting is that if there are any combinations you think you might have trouble writing you might want to count them out and that would narrow down the possibilities.
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Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:50 pm

Ah, now I understand what you're saying. Hmm... would you recommend that I post the details for all of the Swordmage spells here, so I (and others who are interested) can 'match up' the spells with the weapons that they work best with?
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
SpaceKnight of Chaos
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