the consequences of a girl ranma...

[Spokavriel]

I know I haven't found any mention of it in Canon but is there enough circumstantial evidence that Ranma has been informed about sexual relations? Another Consequence could be that Nodoka has to give her The Talk and then some to get through some of Genma's poor teachings.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Let's see... Ranma gets aroused while being amongst naked girls in the Happo-Fire Burst story (and knows what s/he is feeling, telling hirself to cool down), has a relatively perverted conversation with Hiroshi and Daisuke at one point, knows enough about sex to teach his female clone how to flirt with men... quite a bit, when you really look at it.

But what feels off to me (though, to be honest, it feels that way with every such story along this theme), is the fact you're all postulating that Ranma would just accept it and get on with hir life. Reality check; that's not going to happen. Ranma's self-identity revolves around the concept of Ranma = Male, and becoming a girl full-time is a terrible blow against his mental health, his sense of self, his very being. If his curse is locked, Ranma goes berserk trying to find some way to unlock it, and in a scenario where there is no way out, where his worst nightmare -where "he" is lost forever and only "she" remains- is becoming the fact of his life? If Nodoka doesn't demand Ranma commit seppuku, she'd probably commit suicide herself- especially seeing as how it's actually considered a noble/honorable thing in Japan, rather than being abhorred like it is in the west. Trapping Ranma permanently in female form is perhaps the most fruitful option for a "break the cutie" type story in Ranma 1/2 canon. It would take considerable psychological help to keep Ranma from going insane or becoming suicidal, and in truth the most 'healthy' outcome in that scenario is a complete brainwipe- the personality of "Ranma Saotome" is erased, by itself or by others, and an entirely new personality takes its place. She would look like Ranma Saotome, she would have at least something of Ranma's physical capabilities, she might even have some degree of Ranma's memory, but she is not Ranma Saotome.

Of course, where there's life, there's hope- or, rather, where there's hope, there's life. So long as there was a possibility, however remote, for Ranma to return to normal, she would be able to soldier on, albeit with a focus on finding that cure that would easily be dubbed obsessive (or just plain insane) by outsiders. Ever heard of a revenant? An undead caused by a being who craved to finish a task so much that they rose from the grave through sheer willpower to do so? That's the kind of personality Ranma would canonically develop in this sort of situation.

[Spokavriel]

Well the thread did start out asking what would happen with more or less everyone. So I was trying to help figure out everything except for Ranma him/herself in the situation. Because the way Ranma reacts is too story critical to me. When it's a Ranma Cross anyway I feel saying the personal aspect for Ranma is writing the story for someone else.

I disagree that Ranma would ever believe there is no hope for a cure. And that alone would allow for other things to be forced onto him to more or less make the case that she has to live with her body as it is.

It could even be the pile of straws that breaks Ranma out of Nerima seeking cures more avidly.

I guess an analogy is that I'm just trying to help fill the tool kit to have more ideas to play with in how that reaction would end up going in the long run.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Beyond my listing some canon examples of Ranma being implied to know something about sex, I was actually adressing the OP.

Our stances on Ranma's character will differ then, because I do believe that there will come a point where even he will surrender on something. Or at least that, before he does reach said point, his mind will snap from the sheer strain of things. It's a canon fact that being locked is one of the few things that stresses Ranma out, and of those things it's the most stressful. Pile too much weight on something stretched too thin, and it will snap. Though, come to think of it, you have to wonder just how sane Ranma really is, both during certain points on the series and post-series in general...

But, anyway, now that I have that out of my system, to try and ascertain the reactions of the other characters...

Akane: would be devastated at losing Ranma, but would still break up with him anyway- her "anti-pervert" stance means she would never settle for a lesbian relationship. Or the idea of marrying another man and having Ranma-chan as a lesbian lover.

Ryoga: definately sympathetic, as he can understand Ranma's horror of being trapped. A part of him, very deep down, might feel a sadistic joy in Ranma's fate- which would make him feel even more guilty/hateful towards himself.

Shampoo & Ukyo: would probably be almost as desperate to find a cure as Ranma himself, though Shampoo might (reluctantly) call things off if Cologne insists. Either of the two might also try and 'prove their love' for Ranma by trying to retain the engagement, though whether or not Ranma would be willing to accept a lesbian relationship (sex as a girl is a major squickage point for him) is another matter entirely. It's also rather insensitive.

Cologne: most likely would call off Shampoo's engagement and, depending on whether or not there is a possibility of a cure, might offer either to try and help Ranma find said cure, or to adopt 'her' into the Joketsuzoku.

Mousse: would probably gloat and mock Ranma mercilessly... until Shampoo beats the tar out of him. Or Ranma kills him, whichever comes first.

Kuno: would vary between gloating about the death of "the evil Ranma" and renewed efforts to pursue "the pigtailed girl". His avoiding the fate of The Yellow Bastard from Sin City likely depends on Ranma leaving Nerima before she reaches the requisite level of psychotic fury to inflict such a fate.

Kodachi: would alternate between attacking "the pigtailed girl" and searching desperately for "Ranma-sama". Or would forget all about Ranma and find herself a new guy to crush on.

Soun: would try and offer his support, though a cruel-yet-valid option would be for him to kick Ranma out of the Tendo dojo. Trying to marry her himself is something he might suggest... if he lives through the resultant fury, he won't do so again. ($5 that Ranma snaps Soun's spine like a dry stick of spaghetti in the first round!)

Kasumi: would probably try, in her usual semi-vapid way, to offer comfort. Given how divorced she can be from the reality of the situation in general and Ranma's feelings in particular, more likely to just make things worse.

Nabiki: probably wouldn't care until Ranma-chan left- in fact, might see it as a good thing. Before anyone says she isn't that heartless, remember this is the creep who tried to sell Ranma-chan to the Yakuza. As a prostitute. The only way she's going to live by the time Ranma leaves is if she does't make herself too obvious as a nuisance.

Genma: would try to help Ranma; while a good part of his motivation would be selfish, he does love Ranma in his own crude way.

Nodoka: could try and help, or could demand Ranma commit seppuku. Both are equally valid interpretations of her character.

[Spokavriel]

Where oh where did you get a Cannon Yakuza refference sighting? Please show me anywhere? I keep looking and I can't find anywhere that she does something to earn money in Cannon where it appears to be something she wouldn't consider harmless to do herself. But once again that is a character I doubt we will agree on. And it's more a matter of extremes. I still think Nabiki would be upset and not just because of the lost earning possibilities from the lack of Ranma-Kun.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

It's from the ten yen story. While I admit it isn't said explicitly that's who they are, stereotypically "gangster" type characters show up to drag Ranma-chan away as payment for Nabiki's debts during the casino scene, and she casually wonders how Ranma escaped from them when she/he shows up back on screen. Nabiki is officially more or less heartless; the only thing she really cares about besides money is her family, and even they come in at second best.

And when has Nabiki made money off Ranma's male side? She placed bets on him once in the anime, but primarily she's selling nudie shots of him around town (at most around Tokyo) for cash. I can't think of one time, bar those times when she blackmailed him directly, that she made money off of his boy form.

[PepperJAQ]

But what feels off to me (though, to be honest, it feels that way with every such story along this theme), is the fact you're all postulating that Ranma would just accept it and get on with hir life. Reality check; that's not going to happen. Ranma's self-identity revolves around the concept of Ranma = Male, and becoming a girl full-time is a terrible blow against his mental health, his sense of self, his very being.

duh. that's half the fun of a well written lock fic. however, i do have to disagree with the berserk bit (to an extent, though no doubt he/she would be obsessive over finding a chance to return to being 'himself') and there is no way ranma would commit suicide... at least not easily. he/she would definitely contemplate it (depending on what folks like kuno do... like and besides that is. i imagine kuno would only drive 'her' to kill him before she would ever contemplate suicide)

the biggest thing boils down to how everone treats 'her', and if there is any possible leads on a cure (which is part of the fun of a cross...

anyhoo, i do like the idea of kodachi just going 'oh he's dead? *single tear* oh well. *goes looking for someone else to bother*'. heh.

as for nabiki, like i said before... she has a little heart... emphisis on 'little', and the matter of where would be 'somewhere'. naturally she would do what she could to turn this into a quick buck, but yeah, i don't see her trying to chase down ranma as it is often depicted in a great many fics ('she is my cash cow' nabiki-ism seems like too much work for her to do.)

true though, nodoka would be the hardest of all of them to go with. it's been a good many years since i first started 'senshi', and in that time i have learned a decent amount about her (or at least what is offered in canon). she really could break either way. such a pain in the ass... woman, why couldn't your character be more fleshed out damnit! T.T

[Spokavriel]

Really big stretch on that connection. I know it comes down to associations of what people in those situations would have for other stereotypical behavior. There are also soft markers which I have heard of which would have been similar to prostitution but not always.

I didn't say she was selling photos of the male side. But with the curse locked there is less interest that will show up at the fights. That means less bets. And setting betting pools on random events such as Ranma ending up in the pool or hit by Akane have reasons to drop with a locked Ranma.

Edit: It's hard to flesh out a character that you are keeping the main characters afraid of and avoiding for large parts of their presence.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

But Nabiki has never been shown running any betting pools at all in the manga. How do we even know that she's making any money off Ranma's male form, bar the cash she effectively steals from him?

Both of you seem to be overreacting what I'm saying. I'm saying that Ranma would die rather than live as a girl- but only after he exhausted very possible avenue for a potential cure first. While she would rather die than live once she's finally accepted that there is no cure, as long as there's the faintest glimmer of hope, she will fight to the very last drop of blood in her veins to chase it- that's what I'm trying to say.

You don't think Ranma would be obsessive? Look at the Kunos, look at the Amazons, look at Ryoga early in the series and Ukyo later in the series- know what the difference is between Ranma and them? They had something to chase. Ranma didn't.

As a matter of fact, you could even use that as part of your story. You said you were planning on having Ranma-chan join the Teen Titans... well, you have to admit, they've got to be at least a little hesitant about allowing mysterious strangers with superpowers and pasts they don't want to speak about into the Tower, what with the whole Terra incident. Perhaps the reason they let Ranma in is because Robin realises she's starting on the slippery slope of morality; after all, Ranma canonically is quite capable of selfish, petty things. Throw in a Shampoo or early-series Ryoga level of obsession, stir in desperation in a minute but steady flow, and you have someone who's beginning an inexoriable trek towards villainhood.

How long is it before Ranma's instinctive reaction towards people in trouble is resentment for the delay, rather than the immediate spring towards heroics? How long until that intensifies so that peoples' lives become unimportant compared to the Goal? How long until she begins stealing items and tomes of occultic significance, or destroying enchanted places when they fail to provide a cure? How long before she becomes willing to work for anyone mystical, no matter their morality, in exchange for a cure?

And can the Teen Titans possibly keep her from descending to that level?

But, just an idea, nothing more. I can plainly see I've been offensive, so I will offer my apologies and leave. I honestly shouldn't have come here in the first place, I knew I'd just end up running my mouth off, but I couldn't help it. I'm sorry.

[PepperJAQ]

no, i didn't feel offended at all. i actually wanted this. if one is going to write a good fic, it's best sometimes to hear from someone who doesn't think the idea would work... well, more so someone that can give some reasons. and you have. :3

both of you have helped a great deal in shaping my ideas for the current plot bunny running through my head as well as others.

it all boils down to how well i (or anyone else) writes a fic. you can do a lot with a character, even things that would normally have no place. however, you can't just say 'oh it just works'. you have to have reasoning and character development.

the short of it: while i don't agree that ranma would just straight kill himself (yes, after all other options are exhausted), i do see where you are coming from :3

though i would have to add that if takahashi actually perma-locked ranma herself, i wouldn't see the suicide thing coming to pass ever... mostly based on the slapstick style of the series... but if it were more serious (more to the tone of inuyasha, just a bit darker), then yes you are right, ranma would probably do that.

basically, i like what i got from this thread so far... from both of you :3 though i do wish that some others would offer some ideas about this issue, even it just to parrot or link to old posts that talk about it. ^_^;

[Spokavriel]

I was just wondering. If Ukyo's father is still on the edge of the picture how would Ranma's being female effect the Kuonji pledge? Would there be a possibility that the legal gender could be used as a tool to claim that agreement be moved forward?

[PepperJAQ]

now there is an angle that i never really thought about. hehe *puts yet another fiendish idea in his bag of tricks*

though that is a good question. i think it would depend on a few factors, most important being whether or now ukyo could handle/accept being in a relationship with a girl... though given her luck with guys, it doesn't seem that far fetched.

[Spokavriel]

I may be reading too much into this. But I was thinking about Kodachi. She may keep going on and on about her Ranma-sama but considering only the Red haired harlot ever beat her in a match is there a chance that without Male Ranma in the picture she may start trying to be friends. The whole perception of shared loss because now clearly neither have the Male Ranma and she was a worthy adversary. If she wasn't she couldn't have ever won when fighting "in all fairness" all this time.

Not much canon to root this. But it is a potential consequence that came to mind. No object of dispute the dispute goes away. But that doesn't mean the association does. Or even remains of a similar nature.

[Drawde]

I was just wondering. If Ukyo's father is still on the edge of the picture how would Ranma's being female effect the Kuonji pledge? Would there be a possibility that the legal gender could be used as a tool to claim that agreement be moved forward?

Where is it stated that Ukyo is LEGALLY male? I know she went to a all-boys school, but that doesn't mean that she's legally male. Especially when, other than her main school uniform, she's still in the female classes (at least gym) in Furinkan.

[Cheb]

It was analyzed here, in a painstaking detail, that Soun didn't directly say to Ranma "I'll marry you". Even managed to involve a real, honest-to-God native Japanese. Pity all that topic was lost due to forum database failure The real phrase was something along the lines "If, by any chance, you won't be able to return to being a man, you'll be honored by accepting you into the Tendou clan as a bride."
Obviously, the scanlator thought that readers are so dumb they won't recognize an innuendo even when beaten with it over their heads. So he "adapted" the phrase.
And I'm 100% sure Souun was joking/scaring more devotion into Ranma.

P.S. Note to self: when Cheb sleepy his English becomes crappy