Insight on Shampoo's behavior for two oneshots

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I have a pair of oneshots planned, and I just thought I;d see if people could give me some advice for them. I want to know people's opinions on how Shampoo would react in response to two different situations and the likely alterations her change in behavior would have on the canon.

Firstly, what if Ranma had been revealed as a boy in China after receiving the Kiss of Death? And would the things that change be different if he stayed in the village for a time before leaving, as opposed to immediately being dragged away by the terrified Genma once it's explained that the "Kiss of Death" is automatically switched to the "Kiss of Marriage" as a result of Ranma's true gender?

Secondly, what if Ranma had kissed Shampoo back when she did give him her 'canon' "Kiss of Marriage"? And what might have persuaded Ranma to kiss her back, however tentatively, anyway?

[mondu_the_fat]

Firstly, what if Ranma had been revealed as a boy in China after receiving the Kiss of Death? And would the things that change be different if he stayed in the village for a time before leaving, as opposed to immediately being dragged away by the terrified Genma once it's explained that the "Kiss of Death" is automatically switched to the "Kiss of Marriage" as a result of Ranma's true gender?

No. The kiss is a symbolic act that just happen to have the same motions but different intent (think judas kissing christ -- the kiss a "mark"). It might as well have been "kiss of marriage" and "stab to the back of death". Shampoo won't go, "ZOMG! She's actually a boy that I kissed! I must marry him!"

And what might have persuaded Ranma to kiss her back, however tentatively, anyway?

I can think of a few reasons why I wouldn't kiss a random stranger, no matter how attractive. Fear of being conned into something being the most prominent.

Most human 16 year old males would considered kissing her, considering that as far Ranma knew Shampoo had no "con" in her mind (other than the obvious) and that, well, she isn't exactly as stranger. Add teenage hormones to the mix. You should be thinking of why he _didn't_, then attack from that angle.

[Drawde]

If it was discovered that Ranma was male before getting away, it would have happened like in canon. Shampoo was beaten by a MALE outsider, so she has to marry him. The kiss of death would be ignored. Notice that Ranma's "defeat" of Shampoo when he broke the head off her mace in the Tendo house, didn't matter. Just that he's really male. Cologne and Shampoo both ignore his curse after that, at least in regards to his marriage to Shampoo.

They'd both still likely end up running though. Especially since Genma wants Ranma married to a Tendo. And I can't see Ranma just agreeing to the marriage. It would depend on both, how and when they escaped from the villiage, and wether or not Shampoo would get help chasing them down right away.

[TerraEpon]

I've seen a couple fics where Ranma was revealed as male, and it led to in at least one case him accepting the marriage.

Remember, without him meeting Akane, it could very easily be Shampoo that makes the 'girl who wants to be a friend' first impression...

[Drawde]

I've seen a couple fics where Ranma was revealed as male, and it led to in at least one case him accepting the marriage.

Remember, without him meeting Akane, it could very easily be Shampoo that makes the 'girl who wants to be a friend' first impression...

True, but he tends to panic when a girl latches onto him. Shampoo's reaction would probably send him running faster than the Kiss of Death did. And, as I mentioned above, Genma would probably run off with him at the first mention of marriage, if he could.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

While he does panic, doesn't he normally freeze up instead of fleeing? He seemed pretty much dazed after Shampoo gave "her" the KoD in canon. I do agree Genma would head for the hills at the first opportunity, but wouldn't he first have to evade either Cologne, Shampoo, or both of the Amazons? Because I don't think either would just let him run off with Shampoo's groom-to-be.

Oh, and mondu? Thanks for the tip on how to attack that second question- you're right, figuring out why he *didn't* kiss her back is an easier way to figure out why he *might* kiss her back.

So... why didn't he kiss her? Shock seems to be a major factor- his eyes are practically bugging out of his head when she kisses him, and he doesn't seem to get over it until coming around after Akane smashes him in the head with the chui head. Hmm... perhaps if she had missed he might have started to respond?

[Drawde]

While he does panic, doesn't he normally freeze up instead of fleeing? He seemed pretty much dazed after Shampoo gave "her" the KoD in canon. I do agree Genma would head for the hills at the first opportunity, but wouldn't he first have to evade either Cologne, Shampoo, or both of the Amazons? Because I don't think either would just let him run off with Shampoo's groom-to-be.

That's why I said when they get away. And it all depends on how the tribe and Genma acts. Genma might grab Ranma and run the moment he hears "marriage", just like the Guide did in canon (with the kiss of death). Ranma and Genma got away then. And maybe Cologne won't help Shampoo right away, to give her a chance to work things out on her own. Or maybe they won't expect Ranma to run as soon as he does. All possibilities.

[pspinler]

Or perhaps Genma doesn't immediately grab Ranma and run, instead thinking to wait until he can grab the dowry and run (think Ukyo and the okonomyaki cart).

-- Pat

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Hmm... would they reveal that Ranma must marry Shampoo straight off if the truth to Ranma's gender was revealed in the anime, or would they first back off and start treating Ranma nicely as an 'apology' (though really they're more aiming to settle him down before they reveal that he's now hitched to Shampoo) before telling him the "good news"?

While Genma would try and flee, I have no doubt about that, would Cologne join Shampoo in trying to keep her new great-grandson-in-law from fleeing? And if that's the case, how would Genma be able to evade the two long enough to get himself and Ranma back to Japan?

Something that just occured to me... courtesy of a discussion held in the Ranma board, it was pretty much deduced that it takes time for the curse to 'settle' before Nanniichuan and Nyanniichuan can be used as a cure, and it was while they were waiting for this time limit to be up that Ranma & Genma followed the guide to Joketsuzoku in the first place. They weren't able to get cured before returning to Japan due to the fact a homicidally inclined Shampoo was currently in pursuit of them. With this in mind, is it possible that, if the "wedding" doesn't occur immediately, and/or Genma feels positive that he can steal Ranma away before it's consumated, the Saotomes might be able to stay long in China long enough that they can finally apply the Nanniichuan as a cure for their curses?

[Spokavriel]

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I was wondering HOW you are going to have Ranma's curse be revealed after the kiss of death and before they somehow get away. If they do. It would almost have to be while being chased unless you tone down Genma's nature to flee from conflicts he can't clearly win.

People have been watching this tournament for at least hours if not days. Where in the village do you propose the hot water to be encountered? Or are you adding a Tureen of soup to the prise table? Even then why wasn't it spilled or completely consumed during Genma's messing eating as a Panda?

The circumstances could have a big effect on the reaction.

Edit: I can't find any canon support for the curse settling theory. Look at Pantyhose he had his curse his whole life minus a few min. And he still had the curses mix. Now can you honestly use that other line of thought in face of that canon evidence?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I haven't quite figured it out yet, but the most likely version that comes to me is that Cologne comes onto the scene (she's absent for some reason in canon- I was thinking of maybe making it that, in canon, she'd been suffering some stomach upset due to a bad dish in the previous evening's meal), recognizes the guide (she does seem to know him more than the others, even commenting that it's rare for him to leave Jusenkyo in a certain 7th season episode) and thus realises that these two might be cursed individuals, whereupon she intervenes before Shampoo can act on the kiss of death and the guide can grab hold of Ranma.

As for Taro's curse mixing... black moons of Baal, not this again... Taro is the only person we have ever seen where a curse mixed, and he has never used Nanniichuan or Nyanniichuan water. Taro's curse is a relatively unstable one anyway, as it's created by a blend of four animals that drowned simultaneously, and what's more he loves his curse and would actively shun attempts to cure him. We also have no idea that he bathed in the octopus spring- all that's said is that he used the water, it's quite likely he dabbled his fingers in it and then splashed his shoulder blades. The author herself has said that the human-based springs of the right gender can cure (more or less- depends on whether that spring has 'extra baggage', like the Fuushanniichuan causing the victim to become a tiny, pacifist weakling) a person and the Jusenkyo guide has offered Nanniichuan water, in both canons (barrel at the manga's wedding story as thanks for saving Plum, tries to connect the Tendo koi pond to it in the anime), in an attempt to cure the cursed men of Nerima.

One damn example, who's pretty much unique even amidst the other cursed folk, does not invalidate the idea that Jusenkyo is a cure as well as a curse.

[Spokavriel]

If it wasn't for the Guide not knowing a cure and taking the Saotome's to the village to ask about it then the Amazons would never have been a part of the story. All these attempts to help "Cure" could just be that attempts working off theory instead of fact. The guide gives warnings but never stops people from getting to the water when they are determined to.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

For the love of... the idea that the guide took them to the Joketsuzoku for a cure is complete and utter fanon bullshit! I'm sorry about being so harsh, but it's true. Never in either canon, as far as I recall, is it said that the guide took them there for that reason, and both canons have evidence that the Saotomes did stick around for some time after getting cursed (Genma took Ryoga to the guide to be cooked after he got cursed, they are shown duelling -Ranma as boy, Genma as panda- in the Frog Hermit's flashback in the anime)- this topic was discussed quite extensively in the General Questions mk2 topic.

Beyond that, the guide wasn't pressured into giving Ranma Nanniichuan in either canon. He sent Ranma the cask of Nanniichuan for the wedding as an expression of his gratitude for protecting Plum in the manga. And in the anime he was initially just seeking out where Jusenkyo would connect as part of his job- he comnpleted the connection because the others asked him to do so, and his incantation makes it pretty clear that it would be a cure (it's part of my signature, if you're curious as to what he said).

Find me proof that the Guide took them to the Amazons for a cure, and disprove that Takahashi herself said that Nanniichuan would cure Ranma and the others, and I'll admit I'm wrong. Until then, I will stick by my theory.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I apologise for that bit of unpleasantness, but it gets irksome when folks try to derail my topics with things that aren't even remotely on topic. TO try and return to the original purpose...

The current 'reason' Ranma's true identity gets unveiled that I've managed to come up with revolves around the fact that Cologne wasn't seen at the (apparently rather important ceremony). Because reviewers have commented that my fanfic seems to be an epitome of the 'butterfly effect', I thought I'd go with that as something of an in-joke: in this oneshot, the reason why Cologne wasn't at the tournament was because she was accidentally served a spoiled dish the night before, and thusly was too sick to be in attendance. Here, someone noticed that the food was off beforehand and so Cologne was there.

Things proceed much as normal, with Ranma-chan and Genma-panda eating the food and Ranma beating Shampoo when challenged, but here's where things change: Cologne has seen the Jusenkyo Guide and calls out to Shampoo to halt when Shampoo gets up and is about to deliver her Kiss of Death. Shampoo is confused, but obeys, and Cologne bounces over to the Guide to talk to him in Chinese (which means neither Saotome understands it, or what's going on). The Guide reveals the truth about the Saotomes' identity, and the fact he doesn't speak up later is an obvious implication that Cologne threatened him if he spoiled matters. Cologne promptly pours hot water over Ranma, who reverts to male form. Perhaps after a brief talk in Chinese with Cologne, Shampoo delivers the 'proper' kiss, which Cologne "explains" is a symbolic gesture to commemorate Ranma's victory.

Does this look believable?

If it does, I was thinking that Ranma & Genma would spend some time in the village, where they are evidently welcomed- they believe it's due to Ranma's status as the tournament winner, but it's actually because of the fact Ranma is now Shampoo's groom-to-be. They aren't married immediately because... well, I'll admit that I'm drawing something of a blank on that. Two likely reasons are that Cologne wants to get to know her new great-grandson-in-law, and Shampoo wants to wait for Ranma to be cured before taking him as her husband (remember, Shampoo has canonically said that she loves the male Ranma, and while she's not adverse to expressing her affections for him while he's a female, she wants a husband, not a wife). Unfortunately, the secret gets spilled and Genma promptly grabs Ranma (with or without Ranma's cooperation) and leaves- this may involve him dragging Ranma away from the altar (or whatever the Joketsuzoku equivalent would be).

One side effect of the time spent there is that it's possible that Ranma at least might be cured- the Amazons don't really give a damn about Genma, so it's entirely possible that only Ranma is given a barrel of Nanniichuan at the ceremony. However, that's a topic for later.

So, what do folks think? Does my current rough outline make any sense?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

So, does no one have anything to say?