Seeking information on legendary archers and assasins

[Knight of L-sama]

I am currently writing a Fate/Stay Night/Ranma crossover with Saotome Ranma having been summoned as Rider for the 6th Grail War. The problem is filling out the roster of the heroes. I have individuals in mind for Saber, Lancer, Berserker and Caster as well as Ranma as Rider.
However I'm lacking ideas for Archer and Assasin. I'd personally prefer to avoid East Asian or Western European myths/legend since I've already raided them for my existing heroes and I want to add some variety so pre-existing heroes are out from the game/series are out as well.
Links to more detailed pieces of information would also be greatly appreciated so I can make Noble Phantasms for them.

[crystlshake]

I think there was some archery in the Swan Princess story. I think it has a Russian origin. Im at a loss for assasins short of historical ones. The only part of your cross over im at all familiar with is Ranma so im not really sure of the type of leniancey or target your looking for.

[Knight of L-sama]

I think there was some archery in the Swan Princess story. I think it has a Russian origin. Im at a loss for assasins short of historical ones. The only part of your cross over im at all familiar with is Ranma so im not really sure of the type of leniancey or target your looking for.

To give an idea heres some of the heroes from the game
Heracles (better known by his Roman name Hercules)
Medea (first wife of Jason from the legend of the Golden Fleece)
Sasaki Koujiro (the poor schmuck who Miyamoto Musahsi beat to death with an oar)
King Arthur (sort of. Play the game or watch the anime for details).
Cu Chulain (Irish demi-god)
Medusa (she of the snakey hair whose gaze turned people to stone)
Gilgamesh (Babylonian King and demi-god)
Not nessecarily demi-gods (though they seem to crop up a bit) but those sort of legends.

[Bjorn]

They don't necessarily have to be Archers or Assassins in the myths, though, don't they? Isn't it more the Noble Phantasm that decides the class? Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon, for example, was a projectile NP that defined his class as Archer. So you don't have to restrain your search for heroes merely to legendary archers or assassins, right?

[lwf58]

And since you're writing an anime crossover, do you want the others to be known anime characters as well? If so, that makes the job a lot easier.
Assassins:
Mireille Bouquet from Noir
Kirika Yuumura from Noir
Chloe from Noir (This character died in the series)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noir_%28TV_series%29
Duke Togo from Golgo 13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golgo_13
Archers:
Kagome Higurashi from Inu Yasha
Kikyo from Inu Yasha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inu_yasha

[DCG]

How the heck is ranma a rider?

[Frog]

The most legendary Archer I can think of is Hou Yi. He's the Divine Archer of Chinese mythology. He was called into service by an Emperor to shoot down the extra suns (the earth originally had 7 suns, one for each day of the week) since they all came out at once and threatened to scorch the Earth down. Hou Yi was given seven arrows and he began to shoot down the suns (Zomg hardcore). The Emperor realized his mistake and sent a swift legged messenger to steal one of Hou Yi's Arrows or he'd leave the Earth without a single sun.
Assassins are, from what I've been able to glean from game fansites, supposed to only be Hassan Sabbah's. The one of the 5th war is an exception as he was the summon of a summon. If you do not want to use a Hassan Sabbah, might I suggest Miyamoto Musashi? As his mythological rival was summoned an Assassin it makes sense to me that he would too.
Hattori Hanzo was said to have been a ninja. Whether he really was or it was just a myth is of no consequence, as was demonstrated by Kojiro in the 5th War. Hattori Hanzo could also be an assassin, though what NP he would have I have no idea.

[pspinler]

For famous western archers, don't forget the myths of Robin Hood and William Tell. In legend, Robin was supposed to be able to reliably split one arrow with a second.
I have a vague, unsubstantiated recall of an english longbowman accompanying a traveller (possibly Marco Polo?) to China, and impressing the Khan and his warriers with his archery skills. Recall the Mongols were famous themselves as mounted archers shooting a powerful composite (glued horn and wood) short bow.
A primer on mongol archery: http://www.viahistoria.com/SilverHorde/ ... chery.html
Some lists of famous archers (from google, "famous archers")
http://www.archeryhaven.com/archers.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcelo/archery/l ... er1_5.html
http://www.bartleby.com/81/862.html
Feel free to do the same google, and read a bit yourself.
-- Pat

[Knight of L-sama]

How the heck is ranma a rider?

Wild Horse. It's pushing a bit I know but unarmed fighters don't fit all that well. I could have snuck him in as Assasin via the Umi-sen-ken or Lancer via the final fight with Saffron but neither of them seemed to fit right.
And pspinler, I'm trying to avoid the western European legends since between the ones I've got and those from the game I feel that they've been raided enough already.

[Daniel Jess Gibson]

There was also Orion of Greek myth, and his lover Artemis (yes, she liked guys then).
As for assassins, ther were the followers of Hassan from whom the name of Assassin is derived, the Thuggee (sp?) the followers of Kali.
For both, don't forget the snipers of all modern wars, they can actually do things that would be legend in myth.
There was also the Japanese general who shot a fan out of a rivals hand and won a battle thereby (Misato in NGE names the shot the Drill crystal Angel after him)

[GenocideHeart]

How the heck is ranma a rider?

Wild Horse. It's pushing a bit I know but unarmed fighters don't fit all that well. I could have snuck him in as Assasin via the Umi-sen-ken or Lancer via the final fight with Saffron but neither of them seemed to fit right.
And pspinler, I'm trying to avoid the western European legends since between the ones I've got and those from the game I feel that they've been raided enough already.

It's pushing it A LOT. Wld Horse is simply his name's translation. It's not something he's KNOWN for.
He's much more known for flipping out when near cats - he'd fit much better as a Berserker. Setting him up as a Rider is just plain weird, especially since his name is in Japanese, and last I checked, the TYPE MOON Universe has its own language - how else can heroes of different countries and times understand each other?
So just a name that can, or can not, be translated as something is going to have little to no effect on Ranma's Heroic Spirit form, especially since it was used as his given name and nothing more. Would you expect Herb's name to affect him? It's the legend surrounding a Heroic Spirit that shapes what he or she is.
Hell, since he's known to have a magical curse, you could even make a better case for him being a Caster than a Rider. Rider is about the least appropriate class for him.
Just my $0.02.

[Knight of L-sama]

How the heck is ranma a rider?

Wild Horse. It's pushing a bit I know but unarmed fighters don't fit all that well. I could have snuck him in as Assasin via the Umi-sen-ken or Lancer via the final fight with Saffron but neither of them seemed to fit right.

It's pushing it A LOT. Wld Horse is simply his name's translation. It's not something he's KNOWN for.
He's much more known for flipping out when near cats - he'd fit much better as a Berserker. Setting him up as a Rider is just plain weird, especially since his name is in Japanese, and last I checked, the TYPE MOON Universe has its own language - how else can heroes of different countries and times understand each other?
So just a name that can, or can not, be translated as something is going to have little to no effect on Ranma's Heroic Spirit form, especially since it was used as his given name and nothing more. Would you expect Herb's name to affect him? It's the legend surrounding a Heroic Spirit that shapes what he or she is.
Hell, since he's known to have a magical curse, you could even make a better case for him being a Caster than a Rider. Rider is about the least appropriate class for him.
Just my $0.02.

Well Caster is probably the silliest class for Ranma becuase it's one of the things he's most definitively not. That class is reserved for those who were magicians/spell casters in life.
And the TYPE-MOON Universe doesn't have it's own language. The characters speak Japanese becuase most of them are Japanese. (Though Rin also speaks German) When it comes to the Servants it's no great leap of logic to assume that the Holy Grail or the Throne of Heroes includes some sort of translation ability, especially since otherwise only Archer and Assasin would have been able to make themselves understood. Giglamesh would have spoken only a dead language, while Saber, Lancer and the three Greeks would have spoken only such archaic versions of their languages that modern day speakers wouldn't be able to understand them.
Anyway I've also refined exactly why Ranma is Rider in the story as well. Since so many of his attack names have animal names making up part of them as and since Rider classification seems to involve controlling animals as a servants the attacks like the Mokou Takabisha and Hiryu Shoten Ha are actually going to manifest as animal shaped auras (which the Hiryu Shoten Ha sometimes does in anime canon already).

[lwf58]

Forum rule G)

Nested quotes are not allowed. This is when you are quoting the quotes of someone else's quotes. It is lazy and clutters.

I didn't write 'em; I just gotta enforce 'em. Since this is the first warning, no penalties. Just don't repeat it.

[GenocideHeart]

Well Caster is probably the silliest class for Ranma becuase it's one of the things he's most definitively not. That class is reserved for those who were magicians/spell casters in life.
And the TYPE-MOON Universe doesn't have it's own language. The characters speak Japanese becuase most of them are Japanese. (Though Rin also speaks German) When it comes to the Servants it's no great leap of logic to assume that the Holy Grail or the Throne of Heroes includes some sort of translation ability, especially since otherwise only Archer and Assasin would have been able to make themselves understood. Giglamesh would have spoken only a dead language, while Saber, Lancer and the three Greeks would have spoken only such archaic versions of their languages that modern day speakers wouldn't be able to understand them.
Anyway I've also refined exactly why Ranma is Rider in the story as well. Since so many of his attack names have animal names making up part of them as and since Rider classification seems to involve controlling animals as a servants the attacks like the Mokou Takabisha and Hiryu Shoten Ha are actually going to manifest as animal shaped auras (which the Hiryu Shoten Ha sometimes does in anime canon already).

Umm, the Caster class is reserved for people who were THOUGHT to dabble in magic of some sort. It's the LEGEND surrounding someone that shapes their abilities as Heroic Spirits, not what they effectively WERE.
Regarding language, there's no proof the universal language is Japanese. It just happens to be what the creators of the anime spoke, so DUH, it had to be that. In the Italian fandub, they all speak Italian, does that make Italian the universal language?
That's a poor explanation. Seriously.
Finally, the Rider class involves the ability to use any sort of animal as MOUNTS, not control them. You're stretching things a lot.
The best class for ranma in F/SN terms is Berserker. The Nekoken made him infamous for that among most of the Nerima Wrecking Crew, if anything would influence his Heroic Spirit class it's that. Remember, it's not what he is, it's what his legend will shape up to be. That's all that counts for determining his class, and 'tamer of animals' is dubious since most people are too busy running for cover to see if his attacks are shaped like animals.
Hell, his stronger attacks may look like magic to the untrained eye, and Kuno keeps ranting about the 'foul sorcerer Saotome'. What if that rant actually became part of his legend?
Bottom line, you're giving him about the most unlikely class. I'm not slamming your idea of a xover, I'm just pointing out that Rider is a very very poor choice.

I didn't write 'em; I just gotta enforce 'em. Since this is the first warning, no penalties. Just don't repeat it.

Sorry. It was 4AM in the morning for me, and I was more than a bit plastered. Is this better? I only quoted the relevant messages.

[Pale Wolf]

I am currently writing a Fate/Stay Night/Ranma crossover with Saotome Ranma having been summoned as Rider for the 6th Grail War.

Rider? Huh, don't see Ranma imagined as that too often. Where would the legendary inspiration come from, if you don't mind my asking?
Plain English: What's his mount?

However I'm lacking ideas for Archer and Assasin. I'd personally prefer to avoid East Asian or Western European myths/legend since I've already raided them for my existing heroes

Kawakami Gensai would make a fun Assassin, if you don't mind using another Japanese one. (He's the historical basis for Rurouni Kenshin, and he never swore off killing - I'll tell more if you're interested)
If you really can't stand using another Japanese assassin...
Well, there are a huge shitload of other sources of Assassin-type figures. Say, one of the Norse ulfhedin, or play around with Loki. Create a generic Spetznaz operative in the same style as Hassan Sabbah went (coming up with legendary Assassins is kind of hard, considering it's their usual style to never make it into legend, eh?). John Mosby, from the Civil War.
And for an anime character who might be able to fit either role (if someone's seen the actual conclusion to this and knows whether she's usable or not...) - Madlax, from the series of the same name.
Archers... Well, if you're willing to go out of this world and into fantasy novels, my favorite would be Raif Sevrance from A Cavern of Black Ice - the guy's pretty much an incarnation of death, capable of killing nearly anything.
If you really like this world , then you could easily go with Gibson's idea and pick out a sniper - I'd suggest either Vasily Zaitsev (or one of his contemporaries, such as Marie Ljalkova, Nina Lobkovskaya, Fyodor Okhlopkov, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Harold Marshall, Joseph Gregory, Simo Hayha (considered the most successful sniper in history) - there are links on the Zaitsev page, and I'd personally suggest Ljalkova due to her variety of skills - medical and driving expertise - or Gregory or Marshall, just because they're Canadian ) or the soldier who scored the current record for longest-range kill shot (almost 2.5 km, although I've never heard their name).
Or pick out a gunslinger from the Old West legends - they're Archer, for sure.

Assassins are, from what I've been able to glean from game fansites, supposed to only be Hassan Sabbah's.

Not precisely. Assassins as in members of the Islamic Assassin cult were summoned as Hassan Sabbahs. Any other Assassin (as in the class) would be summoned as appropriate to their particular legend.

The one of the 5th war is an exception as he was the summon of a summon. If you do not want to use a Hassan Sabbah, might I suggest Miyamoto Musashi? As his mythological rival was summoned an Assassin it makes sense to me that he would too.

Well, that was more due to the massive strangeness of that particular summoning - Sasaki wasn't really suited as an Assassin class in temperament or style.

Wild Horse. It's pushing a bit I know but unarmed fighters don't fit all that well. I could have snuck him in as Assasin via the Umi-sen-ken or Lancer via the final fight with Saffron but neither of them seemed to fit right.

(Has an answer) Well, why not tie him mythologically to the Dragon Prince Herb, then? Since Medusa got away with riding her mythical enemy's steed, surely Ranma can get away with riding his mythical enemy (as a dragon, perverts).

the Thuggee (sp?) the followers of Kali.

I was just about to suggest that. Actually, if you really want to use the Thuggee, just use Kali herself and say she was really human and got enshrined into myth - Fate's not exactly inextricably tied to the myths as we know 'em.