Silence Wall v. Multimegaton warhead

[Hazard]

Not to be providing unasked-for C&C or anything, but I seem to recall something in my science classes about cosmic radiation, stuff you get from being close to stars and whatnot. You mentioned background radiation yourself, well what's protecting the crew from that, and why wouldn't it protect the crew from nuclear radiation?

The difference? Compare a few floodlights miles out with a 40 Watt lightbulb right in front of yourself. In absolute values the floodlights overpowers the lightbulb easily, except that the distance involved allows the light to diffuse so much that the lightbulb is effectively the greater source of light.

Also, the material shield that is a starship hull will stop all Alpha and Beta radiation, and unless I am misinformed, the armour of a Star Destroyers is meters thick, and somehow, I doubt that the windows aren't just as thick to ensure that they don't form a weakness. Remember that you can stop nearly all Alpha and Beta radiation simply by walking a meter away from the source, even if the source is not enclosed. The Alpha and Beta radiation that you detect from that distance is far more likely to come from evaporated unstable atoms than from the source lying only a few feet away.

The main problem, therefore, is the Gamma radiation, wich is known to go through nearly anything. To stop a Gamma particle you need something very thick, and very dense. Genma's skull might do it . Well, to be honest, it's more like a few hundred meters of granite that you would need.

EDIT: Please do not test the above statement about the minimum safe distance to a source of radiation, Alpha and Beta radiation are more than likely side effects if the source is made of processed materials. You are not safe from this distance from the Gamma radiation that most likely is also projected by the source, nor is the amount of radiation you are liable to be subject to going to be without consequences. I know this should be self evident, but there are some idiots I know that would test this without taking the proper precautions. In other words, unless you are a trained radiologist (in wich case you should already know these things better than I do), really, don't!

[Spokavriel]

I'd think a slightly better analogy for the light bulbs is a police spot light Vs an Easy Bake Oven.

You don't see anything getting cooked when the Police shine their light on it but a single 75 watt lamp can cook food for you in a contained space.

Detonations can be shaped and with correct lenses that includes Nuclear ones. I'd think a nuke at the window would do a good job of changing the bridge into an easy bake.

[Comartemis]

Detonations can be shaped and with correct lenses that includes Nuclear ones.

Is that, by any chance, a Gundam SEED reference, Spok?

and somehow, I doubt that the windows aren't just as thick to ensure that they don't form a weakness.

It's called "transparisteel" for a reason. Yeah I know, I'm a geek to know what the windows are made of...

[Spokavriel]

I've never seen any episode of any season of Gundam so if it is it's unintentional. But even to detonate a Nuke there are specially shaped "lenses" in the device. And in real world science there's still a few options for changing their shapes and positions which will still activate the device while also directing (to a limited extent) the resultant blast.

[Hazard]

Actually Spok, if you are close enough to a nuclear explosion to die of the Gamma radiation released in the blast, instead of the fall out, you have more important things to worry about, like the fact that the infrared radiation itself would vaporise you, or that if the infrared couldn't do it on its own, the actually visible light would do it as well. And then there is the shockwave, the fireball, falling rubble... Surviving a nuclear explosion is, as you notice, quite a trick from up close.

Thankfully, if, as described, only enough of the explosion was let through to see a blinding flash of light, you'd only have to worry about first and second degree burns and potentially permanent blindness as the eye has difficulties dealing with that much light in a single go. The remainder of the of the nuclear blast's energy would have either been absorbed or reflected by the Silence Wall.

[Comartemis]

Thankfully, if, as described, only enough of the explosion was let through to see a blinding flash of light, you'd only have to worry about first and second degree burns and potentially permanent blindness as the eye has difficulties dealing with that much light in a single go. The remainder of the of the nuclear blast's energy would have either been absorbed or reflected by the Silence Wall.

And as mentioned in the excerpt, the transparisteel windows tint themselves to protect the crew from blinding lights outside the ship, so that's not a problem.

[Manzikert]

It's only a one megaton missile, even if it's focused thats only the equivalent to a few hits from a fighter and the fighters weapons are even more focused. It wont do anything unless it gets a contact hit on the window even with the shields down.

To answer your question Scooter, the Silence Wall doesn't actually have to block any of the attack at all. All it has to do is cause the warhead to detonate before it comes into contact with the window.

I haven't read your fic, but even if your knocking off six or seven zeros from Star Wars firepower a nuke in space that doesn't get on top of the target before it goes off does almost nothing to a well armored ship. In other words, even if a one megaton warhead was a threat to the armor it wont do anything if Sailor Saturn can get that Silence Wall out far enough even if it doesn't block any of the attack. All the armor has to block is any pieces of the bomb casing and half of the radiation the bomb gives off that is actually headed for the ship.

For an example this situation is like someone firing an RPG with an HE round instead of a HEAT round at a tank with cage armor. The metal cage doesn't have to be tough at all. All it has to do is set off the warhead. Granted it does sound like the shield is in pretty close so it does have to block some of it if you want that warhead to be a threat to the bridge.

[Comartemis]

It's only a one megaton missile, even if it's focused thats only the equivalent to a few hits from a fighter and the fighters weapons are even more focused. It wont do anything unless it gets a contact hit on the window even with the shields down.

So nukes pack less of a punch than a concussion missile or a proton torpedo, Manzikert?

I specifically remember a scene during the campaign mode of TIE Fighter where a nuke was detonated inside a Star Destroyer and blasted it completely in half. I don't think a proton torpedo could've done that.

...unless it was fired down an uncovered exhaust port or something.

[Spokavriel]

Note your comment was about one blowing up inside. Any detonation inside a space vessel has infinite more possibilities to cause damage because it only has to set off a chain reaction. Chain reactions can end up involving anything from complete obliteration to a comical series of events that end up with no consequence to the ship. Like those domino gags in many cartoons especially Disney ones like Rescue Rangers.

And the thread title says Multi Megaton so I was assuming they were using a yield that would cause at least some damage even when shielded if it was within a close enough proximity.

[Moira]

But the Radion is just about 50% of the destructive Power of nuclear Bombs. The other 50% are the blast. But thats isnt a factor here, because we are in space with no medium (Air) to create such a blast. (http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/effects.htm). The Rest is 35% Heat (including the visisble light). That they might be able to block, if they make the windows completly black just moments bevor the bomb detonates.
The Alpha and Beta-Radiation shcould be not a big Problem, since both have no real penetartion power. The real Problem, as already mentioned are the Gamma-Radiation an Neutrons. Both are capable to penetrate a lot of material bevor being neutralised. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation)

If the silence wall is bevor the windows, then it has to block the 50%. If the wall is somehow inside the bridge it just has to block the Gamma/Neutron Radiaton.

Another fact noone has mentioned yet, is the Surface of a sphere. it is 4*pi*radius^2. That means if the wall gets doubled in radius, to make it big enough for the bridge, the surface it has goes up by 4!. I am not a big into SW, so i dont know how much you have to stretch the Silance wall (assuming it is a sphere), but the energy to maintain and hold it against a nuclear Bombs is rising exponetialy.


And even _if_ the Bridge might survive the whole explosion, the rest of the Ship will be crippled for shure.

If the Wall protects the bridge at the outside, it has to hold of 50% of the Power. If it is behinde blacked windows it has to Hold about 15% (less, becasue alpha, beta-radiation and heat doesnt get to the wall, but i dont think there will be any windows left to protect the crew form the space when the wall gets down.

[Spokavriel]

I know it isn't shown in allot of schematics but most windows on a Star Destroyer also have blast shutters that can close if the window is taken out in a way that leaves the wall intact. Just like the Blast Doors are placed to cut off areas from explosive decompression.

[Manzikert]

Yes, they do more damage than a one megaton nuke. Protons where something like ~200-250 megatons last I looked. If you want an actual answer I would have to do some digging and it isn't really important to this thread.

I specifically remember a scene during the campaign mode of TIE Fighter where a nuke was detonated inside a Star Destroyer and blasted it completely in half. I don't think a proton torpedo could've done that.

Spokavriel handled this one.

If the Wall protects the bridge at the outside, it has to hold of 50% of the Power

Another thing you have to acount for is that if the nuke is omni-directional and not focused half of that radiation is going to go back the way the missile came and not hit anything.

[bissek]

In one of the novels, the bridge viewport of the Mon Remonda is shattered by a few dual laser blasts from an A-Wing while the shields are down. So that should demonstrate how tough (or not) transparisteel is.

Of course, a laser is power at a point, and all you need is one crack and the pressure differential will finish the job for you.

[P.H. Wise]

I'm pondering using this idea for chapter 18 (yes, my muse has returned) of Soldier, Sailor, Jedi, Sith: Would Saturn's Silence Wall withstand the detonation of a multi-megaton warhead?

Only if you want it to.
Remember, the Senshi are only as powerful as you want them to be. While there are relative differences between their power levels (in the anime, at least, we know that the Soldiers of the Outer Solar System are more powerful than the Guardian Senshi, and that Sailor Moon is only the equal of Sailor Saturn once she's been powered up with the Holy Grail), what those actual power levels are consist pretty much of whatever you need them to be for the purposes of the story you are telling.