Terra in Tokyo

[lwf58]

Ben and I have been wanting a few critiques about this story, but the FFML has been all but dead recently. The only public C&C we've gotten so far is one from DB Sommer. Gotta say that I really hate the fact that something like 95% of people who subscribe to the FFML these days think that it's just a good way to see new fan fiction, and either don't know or don't care that it's supposed to be a writers' group and a forum for fic commentary.
Anyway, we've posted four of the chapters at http://florestica.com/boliver/tint/index.htm
If requested, I can post them here in their entirety. Any C&C you all would care to give would be appreciated!

[Sunshine Temple]

It's still funny. There's that much.
On the technical aspect it looks fine. Nothing glaring stood out while I was reading it.
There is a sense of it being rushed, especially with all the inners being found in one chapter. I can understand the reason for wanting to get the little stuff done right quick.
As for Terra, meh. It is neat that she got her brain back but still has all her problems and that her increased intellegence is actually a hindrance when dealing with Arby.
But she seems not terribly interesting. I seem to be reading it more for the other characters.
The fic also seems to verymuch depend on the reader being familiar with the main NETTG line. Especially with Tim's confusion as to who his "better half" is in battle.
But that stuff's not touched on very much.
I do hope there is more to this story. You do keep saying again and again that it's a darker fic.
Though after 4 chapters with no darkness... that seems like a tease.
"Please keep reading this rehash of the NETTG mainline, I promise it will be darker later. It'l have Bruce being a real meanie."
I exagerate but the pacing seems all outta sorts.
Mabye it's as you said, readers can't help but measure it up to other incarnations.
The jokes are funny, and I will keep reading it, but mostly in the hopes that it gets better.

[lwf58]

I will of course pass these comments on to Ben, so we can expect him to have his own explanations.
You're right about it being a bit rushed. However, to give some sort of feeble defense to the idea, it was meant to be a companion piece, more than a stand-alone work. He's the first to admit that he named it after "the worst Tenchi Muyo series" deliberately. And it's only a limited run story; all of the main sequence has been written, and is just being released twice-weekly so that we have some time to edit before posting. It's about 27 chapters long, not counting a possible epilogue that is the only thing unwritten.
As for the rest, I'll get Ben to talk.

[Sunshine Temple]

I will of course pass these comments on to Ben, so we can expect him to have his own explanations.
You're right about it being a bit rushed. However, to give some sort of feeble defense to the idea, it was meant to be a companion piece, more than a stand-alone work. He's the first to admit that he named it after "the worst Tenchi Muyo series" deliberately. And it's only a limited run story; all of the main sequence has been written, and is just being released twice-weekly so that we have some time to edit before posting. It's about 27 chapters long, not counting a possible epilogue that is the only thing unwritten.

27 chatpers isn't a limited run. That's a complete fic, that may be a bit short. This is NOT a little fic or a short one.
Okay so it's self-depreciatinly named. Doesn't make reading it any easier.
Having be a companion piece is problematic from a reaser's point of view. First they have to read the very long and very incomplete NETTG, and then they have to read this rehashing.
Which after 4 chapters feels like it hasn't meaningfully diverged.
Add these problems to the rushedness of it. A reader may feel that there is no reason to read this thing.
Or they may wait until more is released, until something... divergent or dark happens.
Simply put this story is very hard for a new reader to get into.

[lwf58]

Here's the reply from Ben.
**********

From: Sunshine Temple
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:07 pm
**********
It's still funny. There's that much.

That's a very nice bonus. All I wanted to do with this story was to get it done.

On the technical aspect it looks fine. Nothing glaring stood out while I was reading it.

Yeah, I guess I'm at the point where not too much needs to be fixed technically (especially after a pass through with a spell checker and after Larry has a look at it). People can focus on the underdeveloped plot rather than the horrible spelling and grammar. ^_^

There is a sense of it being rushed, especially with all the inners being found in one chapter. I can understand the reason for wanting to get the little stuff done right quick.

Just a part of the mad dash to get the thing finished as quickly as possible without regard for continuity and characterization. ^_^

As for Terra, meh. It is neat that she got her brain back but still has all her problems and that her increased intelligence is actually a hindrance when dealing with Arby.

Yup, balance, y'see. She can't very well be uber from the very first (or second chapter). She's gotta take her lumps first. A whole lotta lumps.

But she seems not terribly interesting. I seem to be reading it more for the other characters.

She gets more introspective later, yeah. As for whether that makes her more or less interesting, who knows?

The fic also seems to very much depend on the reader being familiar with the main NETTG line. Especially with Tim's confusion as to who his "better half" is in battle.

It can either be a good thing or a bad thing to not explain that much in a story. Having NETTG Classic background is helpful, but I suppose it's theoretically possible for people to understand the story (eventually) without having had any NETTG experience.

But that stuff's not touched on very much. I do hope there is more to this story. You do keep saying again and again that it's a darker fic.

There's 27 chapters, so there's stuff to it. As to whether it goes very much deeper, I don't really know. And I wrote the thing.
Mostly, Larry asked me to put the disclaimer in at the beginning because he thought it would be necessary. Ought I to trust him? Of course! He's my
trusted editor.

Though after 4 chapters with no darkness... that seems like a tease.

The initial brightness makes the dark later seem so much more darker. Larry didn't like the darkness. Esa did. Not everyone's thing. Gotta take your silliness before you know what it's like to lose it. Something perpetually depressing loses its effect. Who would notice if you're wearing black if you're in a room full of emo gothic vampire RPG players?

"Please keep reading this rehash of the NETTG mainline, I promise it will be darker later. It'll have Bruce being a real meanie." I exaggerate but the pacing seems all outta sorts.

Oh, don't worry, it'll just get worse. I named it after the worst ever Tenchi series because I supposed it might end up completely awful.

Maybe it's as you said, readers can't help but measure it up to other incarnations. The jokes are funny, and I will keep reading it, but mostly in the hopes that it gets better.

It might get better, it might not. My opinion of it is that... all I know about it is that... it's done. I'll just let the critics sort it out. If it turns out that TinT is considered an awful mockery of a classic series, so be it. That opinion will not have kept me from writing it. If it turns out that it's considered a wonderful series, worth printing out, binding, and putting on the bookshelf, that's fine too. Others' opinions will not have ruined a classic.
What is this series? I don't know. Am I assuring people it'll get better? Nope. Larry just asked me to put in a disclaimer saying it's darker than the other stuff I've written, and I value his opinion, so it went in.
Will you find it darker later? No idea. Esa really liked it, but he thinks NGE had a happy ending. Your definition of dark may vary. I didn't even call it a dark series. Other people have supplied the label.
If you like, continue reading the series, comment on it... That may help to fix a revision, if one occurs. However, it will not change what is already written in the first version.
Love it or hate it, the series has been made. It goes through its ups and downs, and has 27 chapters. You've seen four so far. If that's enough to gauge the series, that's fine. Whether you sing this story's praises or harshly condemn it, the whole thing will soon be available to you to make your own judgements with. I decline to defend or praise the story at this point.
Thanks for commenting! I appreciate it.
--
Benjamin A Oliver

[Sunshine Temple]

That's a very nice bonus. All I wanted to do with this story was to get it done.
[that's not making me feel better about slogging through reading it...
Just a part of the mad dash to get the thing finished as quickly as possible without regard for continuity and characterization. ^_^
[ that's really not helping
[it emphasis that... odd.. mix of silly and serious it seems you're trying to get in
She's gotta take her lumps first. A whole lotta lumps.
[oh goody. More of her taking her lumps -_-
It can either be a good thing or a bad thing to not explain that much in a story. Having NETTG Classic background is helpful, but I suppose it's theoretically possible for people to understand the story (eventually) without having had any NETTG experience.
[that really limits who would want to read it.
There's 27 chapters, so there's stuff to it. As to whether it goes very much deeper, I don't really know. And I wrote the thing.
[eh
Oh, don't worry, it'll just get worse. I named it after the worst ever Tenchi series because I supposed it might end up completely awful.
[really, not making me too keen on continuing reading this.
It might get better, it might not. My opinion of it is that... all I know about it is that... it's done. I'll just let the critics sort it out.
[Assuming you get critics.
That opinion will not have kept me from writing it.
[this is the most important thing. You wrote it because you wanted to.
If you like, continue reading the series, comment on it... That may help to fix a revision, if one occurs. However, it will not change what is already written in the first version.
[And here's the biggest problem with releasing a finished fic.
[It makes doing any reviewing feel moot.
["Cool my commentary may end up resulting in a revision some time later"
[There's not even an illusion of the reader having any effect
Love it or hate it, the series has been made. It goes through its ups and downs, and has 27 chapters.
[Yeah... 23 more to read...
[even if it does get better... it still had IMO the starting problems.
[Meh

[Atlan]

....... well. Its..... different, thats for sure. Cant find anything wrong with it...... i guess.
But what the hell? I mean, ive read some wiered things. I've done some weired things. Hell, last haloween i (a 16 year old guy) wore a fuku as my costume- with hairy legs and all, and hadent shaven for a week. But this story makes ME feel dull and unintresting. I feel so inadaquit.

[Lightspire]

Well, I find Arby confusing, though amusing... Maybe if I'd read NETTG first, it would make more sense... It's just a little too kooky for me to follow, I'm afraid..

[Cheb]

Summary: a pretty funny thing. Any promised "semi-dark" wasn't there, though.

, but the FFML has been all but dead recently.

[hides his FFML folder with 1405 unread messages and whistles innocently]

Unfortunately, as one's skill increases, so does one's eye for flaws in one's own work. Hence, it's often the case that authors and artists can't bear to look at their work anymore, despite the fact that there's not really that much wrong with it. They stare at a page, then run off and go do something else, living in perpetual paralyzing fear that they will not live up to their own expectations.

OR they start rewriting their work. As a result it takes forever to finish it, and the fic dies eventually. In the rare occasions, when the author is determined enough, a truly brilliant thing is born - like the "On a clear day you can see forever", which starting chapters were rewritten anew *twice*.

Terra finally remembered to take her shoes off, since that's what Japanese people tended to do inside their houses,

Hmmm... Do you imply that the American and European people tend to walk in their street shoes inside their homes..? My knowledge is limited with the fact that if you change "Japanese" to "Russian" in the aforecited phrase it'll remain correct.
13 previously unknown words detected:
Gaelic, shamrock, jimmy, rotund, swallow, twine, barrette, flambé, chum, dorky, basket-case, gallows, bagel
2 of which I was unable to dechipher:
flambé (matches the name for the flamethrower in Fallout), basket-case (no idea).

[Cheb]

Having be a companion piece is problematic from a reaser's point of view. First they have to read the very long and very incomplete NETTG,

Well, I didn't read NETTG (dropped it after few chapters) and I won't in the future.

Esa really liked it, but he thinks NGE had a happy ending. Your definition of dark may vary.

Oh, well... That explains things. I myself do not consider NGE even a bit dark. And while I wouldn't say its ending is "happy", it is still quite optimistic.

It goes through its ups and downs, and has 27 chapters.

Too long IMHO for the given level of humor. If it continues as it does, it will quickly turn boring.

However, it will not change what is already written in the first version.
[And here's the biggest problem with releasing a finished fic.
[It makes doing any reviewing feel moot.

Agreed.

[lwf58]

Firstly, it's not true that the version we currently have won't be changed by your comments. I'm reviewing each chapter before Ben posts it, and some changes are already being made as we go based on comments others have made. While the early chapters may not be revised right away, commentary can affect upcoming chapters.
Second, Ben tends to be pessimistic about this one. He's sure it isn't good (and it is good, even though it's not my kind of story), so his replies tend to reflect that insecurity.
Third, the darker elements start appearing in the upcoming chapter 5.
...That is, unless you consider Sailor Moon getting a hole blown in her chest bright and cheery, in which case the chapter should be very upbeat for you. ^_^;;
Really, except for Josh's comments, which are reasonable arguments and show that he at least read the material (despite his mistaken impression that his comments won't make a difference), most of what has been said so far is "I'm not gonna read it." That's fine, but if you're not going to read it, there's no sense in posting a comment to say so.
Even if you don't particularly like it, if you're going to comment on a story, give an opinion of how it might be improved. Don't just knock it.
My personal philosophy when giving C&C is that I never say to an author, "I don't like your story, so you should change it to suit my tastes." Instead, I tackle it line by line and make suggestions as to how the writing might be improved. What I carefully avoid doing is to tell him or her that they should change their plot or ideas. When I do suggest a change, I carefully explain why I believe the change is advisable, and emphasize that it's a suggestion. To see what I mean, you can check out my comments to Innortal about Wrong Place, Wrong Time #3. C&C should always be constructive, my friends.

[Sunshine Temple]

Third, the darker elements start appearing in the upcoming chapter 5.
...That is, unless you consider Sailor Moon getting a hole blown in her chest bright and cheery, in which case the chapter should be very upbeat for you. ^_^;;

As a point I do write "The Return" and for all it's gore many consider that a WAFFY fic. So... maybe it is all cheery. And speaking of holes blown in chests.... unless Usagi or Terra springs up and litterally *eats* a Dark General....
However... you just spoiled... I mean... woo.
I hope it's not lightswtich flippign with it from going normal to dark.
Though I'll have to read it first to see that.

Really, except for Josh's comments, which are reasonable arguments and show that he at least read the material (despite his mistaken impression that his comments won't make a difference), most of what has been said so far is "I'm not gonna read it." That's fine, but if you're not going to read it, there's no sense in posting a comment to say so.

Ahh... well I did take Ben's, apparanlty overly pessimistic, comments at face value.
I am surprised no one else read that fic here. Hrm.
Okay so there is a sense that what is said will have an effect.
And I can fully see why Ben is pessimistic about this one, and how his pessimism is coloring how it's presented.
EDIT:
Also I belive Cheb DID read the fic, as did at least one other person who read it and then found it "too weird"

[lwf58]

The Sailor Moon thingie isn't the only thing that happens in the chapter. Admittedly, it may have been saying too much, but what the hey. I just felt that I had to point out that I call it darker than NETTG for a reason.
Okay, understood that some of the people did read the chapters before posting... but some didn't, and that's who the comment was aimed at. And even then, I think you and Cheb were about the only ones who actually made something resembling suggestions, and that was the real point.
If we weren't going to consider and possibly use opinions on how to improve, I wouldn't be wasting everyone's time by asking for them. Goodness knows that I've got more than enough to do with the time; I'm way behind again on getting stories up in the Library... yours among them. My apologies for that!

[Sunshine Temple]

The Sailor Moon thingie isn't the only thing that happens in the chapter. Admittedly, it may have been saying too much, but what the hey. I just felt that I had to point out that I call it darker than NETTG for a reason.

And now you're spilling more.
I had assumed that it was darker for a reason.
Again, I'll have to read it before I see how the darkness fits in.
Though I care more about it having a plot and actual pacing. Anything better than the oddly too fast, yet too slow introductory rut it's been in for the last 4 chapters.
To clarify. The first 4 chapters seem to have some elemetns done way to fast. Like introducting all the inners at once, and the battle montage. While silmutaniaously dragging on other things.

If we weren't going to consider and possibly use opinions on how to improve, I wouldn't be wasting everyone's time by asking for them. Goodness knows that I've got more than enough to do with the time; I'm way behind again on getting stories up in the Library... yours among them. My apologies for that!

Quite right, but when I heard Ben say that there may be a revision later on... you can understand how that would make me feel. I was confused for the very reason you're saying now. Asking for commetns when it's "written in stone"?
But it isn't, though the whole drawn out release of a fic that's already written. *shrugs*
That never sat well with me, but it's Ben's show to run.

[lwf58]

Unfortunately, as one's skill increases, so does one's eye for flaws in one's own work. Hence, it's often the case that authors and artists can't bear to look at their work anymore, despite the fact that there's not really that much wrong with it. They stare at a page, then run off and go do something else, living in perpetual paralyzing fear that they will not live up to their own expectations.

OR they start rewriting their work. As a result it takes forever to finish it, and the fic dies eventually. In the rare occasions, when the author is determined enough, a truly brilliant thing is born - like the "On a clear day you can see forever", which starting chapters were rewritten anew *twice*.

Yep. Ben's aim in writing this story was to try getting one done without allowing any distractions. The rewriting is being done now that it's completely finished. He wanted to have at least one story that has an actual end.

Terra finally remembered to take her shoes off, since that's what Japanese people tended to do inside their houses,

Hmmm... Do you imply that the American and European people tend to walk in their street shoes inside their homes..? My knowledge is limited with the fact that if you change "Japanese" to "Russian" in the aforecited phrase it'll remain correct.

Here in America, we do. If there are any other countries that take off their shoes at the door, I'm unaware of them.

13 previously unknown words detected:
Gaelic, shamrock, jimmy, rotund, swallow, twine, barrette, flambé, chum, dorky, basket-case, gallows, bagel
2 of which I was unable to dechipher:
flambé (matches the name for the flamethrower in Fallout), basket-case (no idea).

Flambé is a cooking term. Etymology: French flambé, from past participle of flamber, "to flame". Refers to food dressed or served covered with flaming liquor.
Basket-case means: 1 : a person who has all four limbs amputated, or 2 : one that is completely incapacitated, inoperative, or worn out (particularly by nervous tension). Naturally, the use in the story was the second meaning.