The Return ch15

[PCHeintz72]

Been meaning to ask.
Did you have any intention of bringing the Hellsing characters (Ceres, Alucard, or Ms. Hellsing herself) into this story? Almost would make sense, since you are talking of similar ordinance, and talking of Iscariot organization. However, a detraction it is yet more to track.

[Moira]

From the SM cast everyone is accounted for, but from the Ranma1/2 there are only Cologne, Mousse and Happosai missing ( but i think he is the one flight to canada). And maybe taro.
[There's a couple other cast members too, but yest, it's almost evyerone.
---
Right. I forgot about Saffron and Herb. And if you add to that the powerfull Hellsing chars like Alucard and Anderson (if you really add them) . All have big Egos and arent know for restraint or compromises add a protective Brood mother....There goes the neighbourhood.
But i think adding Hellsing will be too confusing. It is complex enough as it is. We have three senshi groups (original, succubi and constellation), Murdock, WIC and the Assembly.

[Sunshine Temple]

Right. I forgot about Saffron and Herb. And if you add to that the powerfull Hellsing chars like Alucard and Anderson (if you really add them) . All have big Egos and arent know for restraint or compromises add a protective Brood mother....There goes the neighbourhood.

Indeed, some interesting potential

But i think adding Hellsing will be too confusing. It is complex enough as it is. We have three senshi groups (original, succubi and constellation), Murdock, WIC and the Assembly.

Well those are all the major groups so far. "A Breif History of WIC" gives a bit more information on some other organizations too.

Been meaning to ask.
Did you have any intention of bringing the Hellsing characters (Ceres, Alucard, or Ms. Hellsing herself) into this story? Almost would make sense, since you are talking of similar ordinance, and talking of Iscariot organization. However, a detraction it is yet more to track.

As you're right in that Hellsing is more to track.
Also AOM is not Catholic. The Pope already has a military force, and they're not preists. The Vatican also has a quite robust inteligence branch; one of the oldest.

[Nadrek]

Hmm... do you have more information on the Linebaugh? .50 or .475?
I though the .500 S&W would be good, but if there's a better round.

I do - for a primary semiauto pistol, the .500 S&W is a better round, though it's going to have a hellishly long handgrip or the rounds will have to be angled to be able to fit a small hand - it's a very long cartridge.
The previous poster's information gives you individual information, here's an energy summary (DYOM):
http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp
And for a rifle, unless you were going to go with a 20/23/25/30mm cannon round, perhaps a 14.5x114, with a velocity about 100m/s higher, and weighing 15-18 grams more (depending on the bullet in question), typically API-T (Armor piercing, Incendiary, Tracer). One site puts the armor penetration of 20mm armor (probably RHA) at 20 degrees at 100 meters for 12.7mm, and 300m for 14.5mm. (Note that 12.7mm does have a round that's rated for 750m in the same cataloge, which is only 5-8 grams lighter than the 14.5 rounds).
20mm and 14.5mm anti-material rifles:
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=313

[Sunshine Temple]

I do - for a primary semiauto pistol, the .500 S&W is a better round, though it's going to have a hellishly long handgrip or the rounds will have to be angled to be able to fit a small hand - it's a very long cartridge.

That's why I went with that round. Especially in that configuation.
Yeah, ergonomics are a critical issue.

And for a rifle, unless you were going to go with a 20/23/25/30mm cannon round, perhaps a 14.5x114, with a velocity about 100m/s higher, and weighing 15-18 grams more (depending on the bullet in question), typically API-T (Armor piercing, Incendiary, Tracer). One site puts the armor penetration of 20mm armor (probably RHA) at 20 degrees at 100 meters for 12.7mm, and 300m for 14.5mm. (Note that 12.7mm does have a round that's rated for 750m in the same cataloge, which is only 5-8 grams lighter than the 14.5 rounds).
20mm and 14.5mm anti-material rifles:
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=313

Yup, for long guns there's more freedom.
As there is for revolvers. Simpler design, less moving parts, and the bullets aren't in the grip.
Of course a revolver has it's own problems. Heh.

[ranger5]

You know revolvers can be reloaded very quickly with speed loaders. Admittedly not as quickly as an auto. Additionally the reloaders are more awkward to carry. Additionally they are usually limited to 5 or 6 rounds vs. the 7-9 an auto of that size would carry. (Unless larger clips are carried as spares (they'd stick out below the grip but WOULD work. The Beretta fully automatic pistol has a 30 round clip available for it (if you are military or police).
Something to consider though (since these are custom jobs) is a completely "custom" gun.
I refer you to the automatic revolver. Yes that is what I said. The Dardick (if'n I rember correctly) was one such weapon. It was built & worked well ( had the advantage of both in many ways -- such as it didn't really "jam" like an auto can -- just pull the trigger again after a misfire the cylinder moves and the unfired round is ejected) Prevents those darn "stove-pipe" jams.
The inventor used "trounds" triangular shaped cartridges (or conversely a triangular sleeve to insert the regular rounds into for his case design. Though I don't think you have to go with the triangular shape to take advantage of the system. After all that's basically what a min-gun does -- the barrels move but not the feed system.
With this you'd get the advantage of being able to take advantage of the revolver's stronger system AND get the advantage of a magazine to reload.
Again since these are custom jobs there certainly isn't anything saying you'd have to go with any "commercial" round. While it would limit reloading from scavenging (ie re-suplying at a gun store or your local Wal-Mart) you could do about anything you wanted with the round itself. Such as a .60 or even .70 round. Load the powder charge how you wanted it for power etc. Admittedly though to keep the grip comfortable you'd probably not want to go any larger than .50.
Without going into balance issues another option would be to have the magazine go in from the side or top. Then you could go with a larger round and keep the grip something that a small girl like Ranma/Nabiki etc could still use and still use the automatic revolver system.
If custom ammo is gonna be uses such as AP, API (armor piercing & armor pieceing incendiary) hollow points, etc then the magazines could be color coded (or even better color coded and have say notches or bump on the mag so you could tell what was what even in the dark.
Side note: According to an old Guns & Ammo story about the Lone Ranger silver bullets are basically armor piercing by themselves. When tested they went through the metal tartget plate without knocking them down. One problem with a pure AP round is less damage (more likely to get through the armor though).
Dual purpose rounds would also work ( in theory) but a soft lead outer shell around a silver or depleted uranium "spike" and it'd work like a HP when used against soft targets and AP against more protected ones.
I'm a bit out of date on the newer stuff... but I used to really be into firearms and the Dardick always intrigued me.

[Sunshine Temple]

[sweet I got you to delurk.
You know revolvers can be reloaded very quickly with speed loaders. Admittedly not as quickly as an auto. Additionally the reloaders are more awkward to carry. Additionally they are usually limited to 5 or 6 rounds vs. the 7-9 an auto of that size would carry. (Unless larger clips are carried as spares (they'd stick out below the grip but WOULD work. The Beretta fully automatic pistol has a 30 round clip available for it (if you are military or police).
[Yup. Revolvers can be quite handy, but as you said they have limitations.
Something to coMnsider though (since these are custom jobs) is a completely "custom" gun.
[Indeed. Something to consider when thinking of what Nodoka would make.
I refer you to the automatic revolver. Yes that is what I said. The Dardick (if'n I rember correctly) was one such weapon. It was built & worked well ( had the advantage of both in many ways -- such as it didn't really "jam" like an auto can -- just pull the trigger again after a misfire the cylinder moves and the unfired round is ejected) Prevents those darn "stove-pipe" jams.
[Huh, interesting. Though that might be more complexity to add. Especially given that a handgun would be a sidearm.
The inventor used "trounds" triangular shaped cartridges (or conversely a triangular sleeve to insert the regular rounds into for his case design. Though I don't think you have to go with the triangular shape to take advantage of the system. After all that's basically what a min-gun does -- the barrels move but not the feed system.
[Ahh, that makes alot of sense.
With this you'd get the advantage of being able to take advantage of the revolver's stronger system AND get the advantage of a magazine to reload.
[Though the fed system will be more somplexity
Again since these are custom jobs there certainly isn't anything saying you'd have to go with any "commercial" round. While it would limit reloading from scavenging (ie re-suplying at a gun store or your local Wal-Mart) you could do about anything you wanted with the round itself. Such as a .60 or even .70 round. Load the powder charge how you wanted it for power etc. Admittedly though to keep the grip comfortable you'd probably not want to go any larger than .50.
[Indeed. There is no reason Nodoka would not explore custom munitions.
[Yup, grip and ergonomics is an issue.
Without going into balance issues another option would be to have the magazine go in from the side or top. Then you could go with a larger round and keep the grip something that a small girl like Ranma/Nabiki etc could still use and still use the automatic revolver system.
[Actually I was thinking about a magazine feed in a different place.
[That seemed detrimental to the blanace and made the design difficult.
If custom ammo is gonna be uses such as AP, API (armor piercing & armor pieceing incendiary) hollow points, etc then the magazines could be color coded (or even better color coded and have say notches or bump on the mag so you could tell what was what even in the dark.
[yah coding would also be good for speedloaders and other munitions.
Side note: According to an old Guns & Ammo story about the Lone Ranger silver bullets are basically armor piercing by themselves. When tested they went through the metal tartget plate without knocking them down. One problem with a pure AP round is less damage (more likely to get through the armor though).
[Cool. Yeah that is true.
Dual purpose rounds would also work ( in theory) but a soft lead outer shell around a silver or depleted uranium "spike" and it'd work like a HP when used against soft targets and AP against more protected ones.
I'm a bit out of date on the newer stuff... but I used to really be into firearms and the Dardick always intrigued me.
[good to hear.
[Yes the advantage of a larger round is more flexibility in the "payload"

[ranger5]

Actually the feed system is much simpler the cylinder simply turns and strips the top round off the clip, just like a revolver. Fewer parts and less likely to break or jam. The side of the cylinder are open (somhow and uses the frame to seal it. It's really ingenious.

[Sunshine Temple]

Actually the feed system is much simpler the cylinder simply turns and strips the top round off the clip, just like a revolver. Fewer parts and less likely to break or jam. The side of the cylinder are open (somhow and uses the frame to seal it. It's really ingenious.

Hmm good to know, but it's still more complicated than a normal revolver. Which was my point.

[Nadrek]

A couple of notes on revolvers:
No, they're not susceptible to jams caused by magazine failure, rounds failing to make it up the feed ramp properly, rounds that fail to extract, and so on.
The "squeeze again" is the revolver version of "rack the slide and squeeze" that semi-autos have. It's merely slightly faster for the typical example of "the round just didn't fire at all".
Yes, they're just as susceptible as an auto to a stove-pipe, the normal example of which is a squib round, where the round was fine except it had no powder, and the primer propelled the round only partway down the barrel. A round stuck in the barrel is a round stuck in a barrel, and if you happen to get a round stuck halfway out of the cylinder and partway into the forcing cone means the gun don't work (and you can't open the cylinder).
Shrapnel, an extended primer, or other impediments to the moving of the cylinder make the revolver not work - the cylinder typically moves as the hammer goes back, so if it doesn't move, the hammer doesn't go back.
If the mechanical timing on your revolver fails - rare though it is, normally - your revolver fails.
A top reliability semi-auto with top reliability ammunition really isn't much less reliable than a revolver. There are, however, less widgets to fiddle with on most revolvers compared to, say, a 1911. Sigs and Glocks have less widgets than 1911's, too - Glocks less than Sigs, but I like the decocking lever.
Note also that revolvers can be fired and reloaded incredibly fast - find one of Jerry Miculek's videos, there should be one on the web somewhere, and watch it - noting that he's a moderately old human, not a teenaged demon.

[Sunshine Temple]

A couple of notes on revolvers:
No, they're not susceptible to jams caused by magazine failure, rounds failing to make it up the feed ramp properly, rounds that fail to extract, and so on.

Yes, simpler mechanism. That is some benifit. Especially if larger rounds are used. The benifit is more for structural issues.

A top reliability semi-auto with top reliability ammunition really isn't much less reliable than a revolver. There are, however, less widgets to fiddle with on most revolvers compared to, say, a 1911. Sigs and Glocks have less widgets than 1911's, too - Glocks less than Sigs, but I like the decocking lever.

Yup.

Note also that revolvers can be fired and reloaded incredibly fast - find one of Jerry Miculek's videos, there should be one on the web somewhere, and watch it - noting that he's a moderately old human, not a teenaged demon.

Indeed. Speed isn't too much of an issue. Something that Nodoka would know and work with.

[ranger5]

Putting Hardware issues aside (though they can indeed be a lot of fun to discuss).
This was an excellent chapter with enough "changes" in attitudes to really shake things up. Good job with character interaction.
Nice touch with the parent teacher conference being needed.

[Sunshine Temple]

Putting Hardware issues aside (though they can indeed be a lot of fun to discuss).

Indeed. Ch16 should spawn some more conversations on the subject ;p

This was an excellent chapter with enough "changes" in attitudes to really shake things up. Good job with character interaction.

Thanks. Glad to see that the Mercury plot line is going well.

Nice touch with the parent teacher conference being needed.

Heh, thanks.

[Nadrek]

So, to sum up, right now AFAIK we have:
WIC (cast of thousands, man-portable medium-ranged anti-tank tech demonstrated, teleport jamming, choppers and planes, sensors, years of training to recruit but unlimited in number)
Main Senshi (Silver, 4 in Japan, 5 in Canada, anti-infantry short-ranged weapons demonstrated, some healing, teleport-capable, difficult and limited if any recruitment [Ranma], Time Gate viewing [limited], resurrection)
Mercury's Senshi (Silver, 3 in Canada, anti-infantry melee weapons demonstrated, sensors, recruitment unknown but present and apparently relatively quick, probably limited)
Brood Senshi (D Silver, 6 [plus, perhaps, 1 or 2 humans], Ranma demonstrated short-ranged anti-APC capable magic, all demonstrated short-ranged anti-infantry magic, regeneration, sensors better than WIC, flight, very fast [days] recruitment to D, weeks to D Silver, unlimited in number)
Assembly of Man (A, possible cast of hundreds, medium-range anti-infantry weapons demonstrated, regeneration, may or may not be able to jam teleports, practical recruitment)
Vampires (V, unknown, may or may not be independent/pawns)
Youma (Y, unknown, but were clearly organized in the school attack)
Murdock's backers/employers (Unknown, last seen chapters ago when he was talking about really going to the backup plan)
Gosunkugi and other groups
BlackSky's brood (Demon, cast of thousands, likely won't interfere but would welcome Brood Senshi if they wanted to go to the Succubus Plane)
P.S. Did Ranma ever deliberately work on, and have her brood work on, disguising and hiding her pattern?
P.P.S. Has Ranma been willing to work with WIC on determining precise rates of regeneration, more effective magic shielding (see: protecting Ukyo) techniques, etc. by trying different things while getting shot repeatedly, and with more and more advanced ammunition/magic/weapons (uprated Bakusai Tenketsu training)?
So, based on what I remember actually seeing, noting that "kill" indicates on the fly in free-form combat, not more creative and/or planned alternates:
WIC can't teleport, can't regenerate, can't resurrect, and takes years to recruit. Allied with Brood Senshi. Wants good relations with all Silvers.
The Main Senshi lack training, may lack sensors, can't fly. They may lack medium (300m to 10km) and long range attacks. Can't regenerate. They may or may not be able to kill APC's. They may or may not really be able to recruit a limited number. May or may not have time limits based on secret identity. No allies [Note: Pluto doesn't seem to want any].
The Brood Senshi may lack medium and long range attacks, lack teleport, can't jam teleport, can't resurrect, and may or may not be able to kill tanks. Allied with WIC.
The Mercury Senshi may lack any ranged attacks, probably can't to kill APC's, lack teleport, can't jam teleport, can't fly, can't regenerate, can't resurrect. May or may not have time limits based on secret identity. Wants good relations with Brood Senshi. Relationship with Main Senshi unclear.
What each group needs to work on is reasonably obvious from the weaknesses above.
I'd note that the Brood Senshi, based on species, should absolutely be able to teleport on Earth as well as interdimensionally [BlackSky]. The material differences of being Silver is unquantified as of yet, beyond a likely power increase [Ranma started with D-Silver being a rating 3 increase from D, and later D increased to be identical to D-Silver].
I'd also note that Usagi, breakdowns aside, has demonstrated a far higher degree of maturity than is normal for fannon. Brilliant, no, but solid, indicating that all four of the teams we'd like to root for have, at minimum, reasonable leadership potential.
We haven't seen any evidence that teleports can be traced at all, to my knowledge, to date.
Amusing question: Does Usagi realize that if the crescent moon symbol continues to be tarnished by terrorists, she could change the symbol to something else?

[DCG]

"Amusing question: Does Usagi realize that if the crescent moon symbol continues to be tarnished by terrorists, she could change the symbol to something else?"
That may be rather hard as it shows up on her forehead when she channels a good amount of power.