Seeking information on legendary archers and assasins

[Pale Wolf]

Maybe give him either the Kinjakan or the Gekkaja as his Noble Phantasm, as well...

Exactly what I was implying

However, in Heroic Fantasy (which is what F/SN bases itself on), Lancers are basically people who use bladed polearms of any kind, be they thrusting or cutting, light or heavy - lances, spears, javelins, halberds... you name it, a fantasy Lancer can use it.

The class is called Lancer because Lancer sounds cooler than Spearman.
Considering the canon Lancer used a spear and not a lance...
Fate's not that strict with the classes, and can never be pretended to be until Archer decides he doesn't prefer to fight close-in.

[GenocideHeart]

Hmm, points taken. At any rate, back on topic.
If Ranma does indeed fight as a Rider, then wouldn't that mean that most weapons that make sense for him will be off-limits? You can't fight barehanded on horseback, he never even tried to shoot a bow, unless I missed something, he sure as hell doesn't know how to use a lance, and since the naginata is an infantry weapon, the Staff of Ascension is also out. Hell, staves in general are out, and most of the weapons Ranma DOES use in the manga are two-handed (usually staves or other polearms).
That means that almost all weapons he may be known to use in legend will be off-limits to him as a Rider... and Heroic Spirits don't just gain mastery over their weaponry when they're summoned by the Grail. Ranma wouldn't be much proficient at any weapon a Rider uses, so he's better off using infantry weapons... what's the point of summoning a legendary martial arts and on-foot close combat expert, if you get the class all wrong?
I suppose that my point is, as I've mentioned before: the crossover is a very good idea, but the class isn't. I just can't picture Ranma as a Rider, no matter what. I can picture him as any other class besides Caster, but... Rider is waaaay too much of a stretch.
Just my $0.02. Of course, the fic isnt mine, so I'll just give you my opinion. The final choice is yours, Knight of L-Sama.

[Pale Wolf]

If Ranma does indeed fight as a Rider, then wouldn't that mean that most weapons that make sense for him will be off-limits? You can't fight barehanded on horseback, he never even tried to shoot a bow, unless I missed something, he sure as hell doesn't know how to use a lance, and since the naginata is an infantry weapon, the Staff of Ascension is also out. Hell, staves in general are out, and most of the weapons Ranma DOES use in the manga are two-handed (usually staves or other polearms).

You're using human assumptions. Remember Ranma's freakish strength - he could use fricken Cloud's sword one-handed and consider it light.
Even barring that: if he had one of his former opponents as his mount, that mount would be intelligent. It wouldn't need him to direct the reins, so both hands would be free.

I suppose that my point is, as I've mentioned before: the crossover is a very good idea, but the class isn't. I just can't picture Ranma as a Rider, no matter what. I can picture him as any other class besides Caster, but... Rider is waaaay too much of a stretch.

Caster's easy enough to imagine him as, actually.
The basic operation behind sorcery is extremely similar to the assumptions about ki in Ranma, so Ranma'd pass very easily as a self-taught sorceror.

[GenocideHeart]

You're using human assumptions. Remember Ranma's freakish strength - he could use fricken Cloud's sword one-handed and consider it light.
Even barring that: if he had one of his former opponents as his mount, that mount would be intelligent. It wouldn't need him to direct the reins, so both hands would be free.

I'm not talking about strength. I'm saying that heavy polearms and two-handed weapons besides bows are CLUMSY to use on a horse or other mount, and you seriously risk clocking your own mount in the head if it moves in a way you didn't expect while you're using a weapon that requires both hands... which a mount doing its own thing will eventually do, unless they are perfectly attuned with their rider.
Unless rider and mount can read each other like an open book, a weapon that's clumsy to use on horseback is a big no-no, unless you want to look stupid by KOing your own mount.
A well trained, obedient mount will beat an intelloigent, self-aware one any day. If your mount is well trained, you can tell what it'll do. If your mount is just smart, you may not read correctly what it'll do, and end up clonking it instead.
There's a reason why horseback archers spent a lot of time training their horses. That way, they could have both hands free and still know what their mounts will do and what orders they'll react to.
EDIT: And we're veering dangerously close to offtopic again. I don't want to be banhammered, so let's just agree to disagree, OK?

[Knight of L-sama]

That means that almost all weapons he may be known to use in legend will be off-limits to him as a Rider... and Heroic Spirits don't just gain mastery over their weaponry when they're summoned by the Grail. Ranma wouldn't be much proficient at any weapon a Rider uses, so he's better off using infantry weapons... what's the point of summoning a legendary martial arts and on-foot close combat expert, if you get the class all wrong?

I'll spell it out finally once and or all.
Ranma's special techniques are acting as his Noble Phantams (when summoned as Rider. He is capable of being summoned as Lancer and Assasin but by the time of his summoning in the Sixth War those positions had already been filled) with the Hiryu Shoten Ha and it's variants taking the lead as most powerful (and defining) elements. In Ranma anime, even before Ranma fights Herb, the Hiryuu Shoten Ha does take the form of a dragon and when he uses it as a Servant it always takes the form of a wind dragon that Ranma can then control. It's not riding in the literal sense but as controlling a legendary creature it can be considered such in a metaphorical sense.
As for the rest of his attacks... Mystic Eyes and Blood Fort Andromeda have nothing to do with riding animals either.

[Moshulel]

This sounds disturbingly similar to a conversation I had with one of my mates, in which we were discussing what classes would Ranma and other anime characters would be if summoned in the Holy Grail War.
A few classes we suggested for Ranma were Rider, Assassin and Lancer based on a few facts related to him.
I supported Ranma being a Rider class while my mate supported the Assassin class. Another class we discussed as potential for Ranma was Berseker.

[GenocideHeart]

This sounds disturbingly similar to a conversation I had with one of my mates, in which we were discussing what classes would Ranma and other anime characters would be if summoned in the Holy Grail War.
A few classes we suggested for Ranma were rider, asassin and lancer based on a few facts related to him.
I supported Ranma being a rider class while my mate supported the Asassin class. Another class we discused as potential for Ranma was berseker.

Now that you mention it, it's true... I remember your topic on TFF. You even suggested Wild Horse as a possible explanation for Ranma's class, and it was pointed out that it's a bit much of a stretch.
...actually I thought that Knight and you were the same person, heh.

[Pale Wolf]

the soldier who scored the current record for longest-range kill shot (almost 2.5 km, although I've never heard their name).

Well whaddya know. I stumbled across his name. Corporal Robert Furlong - he's Canadian.
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/canad ... 689_126689 is an article which tells a bit of useful stuff about him and his unit in the Princess Pats.

[WG_Writer]

perhaps Avenger would be a better choice then any others. the cannon Avenger in Fate/hollow ataraxia which is a sequel set parallel to Fate/stay night was less then Ranma is and yet he is there.
Spoiler: read at your own risk, seriously this is massive spoilage.
Avenger was the spirit that granted wishes which was freed by Saber destroying the grail. however due to circumstances he did grant one wish for the master of Lancer (speculation on my part: as it was his master that technically won since at the end of the war only thoes command spells were left since shiro had none left) Lancer's master was a 25 yearold girl by the name of Bazett Fraga McRemitz, Kirei Kotomine killed her after she summoned Lancer and took her arm and her command spells. Her dieing wish was not to die. Thus the plot started for fate/hollow around this and the time loop. So long as the time look ran she would not die.
/Spoiler