I think I'll join Cheb in frowning at you, Zwzn. Reason and logic seemingly have no place in your arguments, though opinion, assumption, bias, baseless theories and fantasies certainly do. It's such an utter waste of time to argue against such things, so this is the last time that I'm going to bother. After this I'm going to treat your arguments as irrelevant. I no longer see the point in trying to make sense out of what you say.
Zwzn wrote:Too thin describes the arms and legs of all the characters at at least one point or another. Every character in the Sailor Moon manga is an eldritch abomination.
Okay, what does that have to do with anything? That's beside the point. And why only state that they're "eldritch abominations" in the manga, when they're the same characters regardless? Is it because the manga has information that's injurious to your arguments, I wonder?
Zwzn wrote:Which wouldn't stop someone from noticing a major difference if touched.
A desperate attempt to prove a point concerning an argument about
sight, and easy detection of something being different from normal in general. Touch is neither related to sight nor an easy way to detect the difference, in part because Hotaru kept to herself and rarely came into contact with anyone, beyond her father and his assistant (who are already in the know). I can't recall if Chibi-Usa ever touched her hand or arm, but she didn't notice anything different until she saw Hotaru's arm completely exposed.
Zwzn wrote:The Sailor Moon Moon would still have everything the Daimons would need since all Beryl and Sailor Saturn did was kill everything. The SM Moon has about 1G and still has an atmosphere since the senshi could walk normally and talk there.
Pharaoh 90 is basically an entire alien bio-sphere after all.
Um, no, the moon wouldn't have what they need. I think Earth's astronauts would have noticed if the atmosphere could support life, or if its gravity was the same as Earth's. (And before you say anything about the Sailor Moon universe not being reality, it's still
based on reality. Things like the moon landings wouldn't have changed.) The real answer is that senshi can move and live freely in vacuums and zero G. Not only is that based on the fact that nothing happened to them when the senshi traveled between the Earth and the moon, but when they had to travel from Earth to the center of the galaxy. Senshi are supposed to protect celestial objects like planets, moons, asteroids and star systems, so it makes perfect sense for them to be able to live in space. That's what Uranus and Neptune had to do, back in the Silver Millennium. Heck, just look at Pluto, a senshi who is never supposed to leave her post at the Door of Time. All three show that senshi never need to sleep, eat or drink, either. They need to be ever-vigilant, and need to take the fight away from their world/moon/asteroid, if they want to perform their duty to the utmost of their ability.
Zwzn wrote:How many daimons arrived on Earth in the manga? In the anime there was only Germatod.
Daimons and vessels are two different things, in the manga. Germatoid/Gelmaido used professor Tomoe as a vessel. Kaorinite (whatever her real name had been) was another vessel, also when they first arrived. Hotaru was Mistress 9's vessel, perhaps also when they first arrived. Pharaoh 90's vessel was going to be the Earth.
Zwzn wrote:Even if they had to open the portal on Earth there is no reason the death busters had to stay on Earth after Pharaoh 90 came through.
I don't see how that has to do with anything.
Zwzn wrote:Having to fight off the native life forms was a very big problem for the death busters to the point that Pharaoh 90 went back to where it had come from to escape them.
Buh? Which reality is this? I don't even recall that happening in the anime... In the manga, Pharaoh 90 was forced back into its home dimension by Saturn, who followed it in before she used her ultimate attack to kill it there, after Pluto had sealed the dimension off.
Zwzn wrote:But there needs to be a reason for the person to be able to build the super-gadget. If Hotaru's replacement limbs had been biological that would have made sense.
Zwzn wrote:I would have no problem with Hotaru having replacement limbs if they had been biological in stead of mechanical.
Zwzn wrote:The SOD breaker for me isn't that Hotaru had artificial body parts, but that they are not biological.
Okay, I'm going to nip this "biological makes more sense" bologna right in the bud: it doesn't make more sense. Need an example, which follows along with your logic, about how people should make scientific advancements? Just look at prosthetic limbs in reality. Do they start out as biologically-engineered, or mechanically-engineered? I'll give you a guess. Basically, while you say that it doesn't make sense for professor Tomoe to make the next logical step in prosthetics (mechanical limbs that look
and function realisticly), it somehow makes sense for him to do something that is even more advanced than that in order for you to accept that he can create the kind of limbs that Hotaru has, when, at the same time, you have a problem with him being so much more advanced than what the average person considers to be modern?
Oh, and while I don't understand how needing a reason to build "super-gadgets" justifies anything, the only reasons anyone ever needs is interest and ambition. Not that anyone really needs a reason, but if you can only accept that people need reasons to do things...
Zwzn wrote:No, a "wizard did it" does not justify Hotaru's limbs since there was no wizard to do it.
You're right. It was a mad scientist. We're playing by sci-fi rules with this one, though
Cheb's point still stands: this is fiction, and whether it's by the standards of sci-fiction or fantasy, realistic explanations need not apply.
Zwzn wrote:That kind of means the Moon would have work just as well.
It kind of doesn't. If it did, why didn't Pharaoh 90 go to the moon instead of bothering with all of the problems associated with trying to get Earth? And it's still assuming that Pharaoh 90 would have been able to travel to the moon, from the Earth, in the first place.
Zwzn wrote:You failed to notice that Hotaru was not seemingly badly hurt, and not needing an arm and a leg or two?. The lack of those cyborg parts makes it make far more sense.
It's not a matter of taste. It is a matter of everything fitting together in a way that makes sense. Am I correct to think you have not watched season 3 in at least a while?
Yeah, it sure does make sense, considering it's the same explanation that Cheb used, which you said didn't justify Hotaru's limbs. Again, it's a matter of taste. You like it that Hotaru was magically brought back to life because it's more convenient; there's less to explain because who can explain magic? I prefer the cybernetic limbs because it at least tries to explain Hotaru's condition in a more realistic fashion, in regard to both fictional and non-fictional contexts. You like that a kind and loving father was possessed by an evil alien, and I like the mad scientist who cared more about creating a super being than he did his daughter.
Whether I watched the third season of the anime recently or not is irrelevant to this argument. I did, of course, see what I needed to see to answer your argument. And it makes a lot of sense how professor Tomoe had miraculously survived that explosion; and in one piece, to boot.
Zwzn wrote:Yep the manga death busters are in it seemingly for the evils. There is nothing on the Earth in the SM manga they can't get elsewhere since they planned to kill everything anyway.
Uh-huh. So the heart crystals that the death busters were after could be found on the moon, Venus, Mars or some other place in the solar system? Are you even
trying to make sense? Sheesh!
Zwzn wrote:If the location of the rifts was not the death busters choice then there is no reason to think there is anything on Earth they really want unlike their anime counter parts who came seemingly because it found the grail(a/the Ultra pure heart crystal/Hotaru/Sailor Saturn).
Earth must have had something, since they bothered to go after heart crystals and the energy required to bring Pharaoh 90 over and take the planet as its vessel. It's really obvious
if you've read the manga, irregardless of whether they controlled the location of the dimensional rift or not.
Zwzn wrote:If the manga DB are just in it for the evils then summoning Pharaoh 90 does not make sense since it ends their fun.
Well, you're the one who suggested that they were "doing it for the evils," which they weren't. Do I even need to explain what they were doing? -_-;
Zwzn wrote:And who built it/put it there?
Why is it almost never used?
Considering how the entrance had to integrate with the arcade above it, which would have been a recent addition, I'd say that the guardian cats built it. They're capable of making
new communicator watches and transformation pens, which is an indication that they know advanced technology and/or could have done it with magic.
It's only used when it's needed, and when it's relevant to the plot. I think it was used enough times, since it was used from the first story arc to the last. Mamoru used it to hack into the Infinity College, to find out more information about professor Tomoe, for instance. Aside from meetings, it's usually used by the guardian cats, who monitor situations from there.
Zwzn wrote:It breaks SOD if it has no reason to be there, and Hotaru's cybernetic parts aren't even relevant to the story. They have no reason to exist in or out of universe.
No reason? No relevance? Nope, you don't know what you're talking about. Are you even aware that we're talking about a
fictional,
sci-fi/fantasy universe called Sailor Moon? Are you drunk or on some mind-altering drug? Or are you the type of person who gets their jollies by messing with people? Honestly!
Zwzn wrote:Your choice of examples if kind of flawed since they all have reasons to have been able to have been able to do what they did, and took years for them to do it.
My choices were just fine for their intended purpose. They had no more reason than professor Tomoe, and regardless of how long it took them they were still ahead of modern technology in their respective settings. At least use some rational excuse to cover up how and why you're wrong.
Zwzn wrote:Ami not knowing of him is kind of an SOD breaker since his sort of work seems to be her interest.
Zwzn wrote:It's rather odd Ami didn't know who the Tomoes were.
Which leads me to believe that you don't know Ami. She wants to be a doctor, not a scientist (which, in this case, would mean a geneticist). Whatever he would have been known for would have been during a time (at least six to eight years ago) when Ami probably would not have been interested, much less noticed anything about it if anything about his published work ever came up.
Even if that wasn't the case, it's not an SOD breaker for a teenage girl like Ami, who knows a lot of stuff in general, to not know of him. Now, had she been old enough to work in the same field as professor Tomoe, then I think it would be an SOD breaker for her to not know about a fellow colleague that had (at one time) been famous for the same kind of work that she did. But, that's not the case.
Zwzn wrote:That is the picture I'm thinking of. Would you mind posting the picture here, or PM me it or a link?
I tried to look for it online, but I couldn't find it. Well, I know of one place (mangafox) where it could be found, but I consider it a risk to browse there. I can't afford any damages to my computer, so you're welcome to look for it there if you feel secure enough.
Zwzn wrote:Thank you for agreeing with me.
There isn't really anything else he could have sold.
Uh... I wasn't agreeing with you. And nothing that I said suggested that he would have nothing but the prosthetic limbs to sell. All anyone knows is that he sold some of his findings (based on radical experiments on animals, which is what got him expelled from the academic community) to some
commercial developers, which in all likelihood has nothing to do with prosthetics.
Zwzn wrote:Right over your head again.
If one person can make super-tech then there will be lots of others who can and will, but there isn't in Sailor Moon.
Your head, you mean? I mean, for Christ's sake...
It's not a matter of how many people could or should be able to make advanced technology. The fact of the matter is that fictional stories can have at least one such person. It's not because there aren't any others, but because any others that might exist
have nothing to do with the story. That should be very easy to understand, so... understand it!
Zwzn wrote:Wow, two insults, and a failed counter argument.
Reality check: there were no insults, and my argument was sound.
Zwzn wrote:We can infer from what is said, and how the characters act that there are none.
Then what are you arguing about? Just for the sake of arguing with me? Or haven't you been paying attention? Perhaps I should remind you of what we're arguing about:
Zwzn wrote:If Hotaru's father can easily make a cyborg without anyone knowing then there must be other cyborgs walking around in Sailor Moon, but there aren't.
Your argument makes no sense. How can you know that there aren't any, in any case, if there's someone who can make them without anyone knowing? Obviously, professor Tomoe can, seeing as no one had been the wiser until the outer senshi had a reason to look into his activities, and when Chibi-Usa had accidentally seen Hotaru's arm when it wasn't covered.
The only reasonable answer to explain why there wouldn't be other cyborgs around, is because professor Tomoe had no reason to make more, not because we don't see any. Saying that something isn't possible because it's not apparent, even though we know it's possible (because Hotaru went to school without anyone knowing about her prosthetic limbs), is flawed logic. It's as simple as that.
Zwzn wrote:And that is an SOD breaker since he is out of place in the setting, and there aren't any others.
*I slap my hand over my face*
He's not out of place. There's science-fiction elements throughout Sailor Moon, in part because Takeuchi was inspired by the sentai genre. And, again, not showing any other people like him is irrelevant.
Zwzn wrote:As was stated, there was nothing keeping the Death Busters on Earth, and no talk I recall as to why Earth was the target in the manga.
The fact is that they stuck with Earth, so they must have had a reason to. And even a casual read of the manga would tell you that they wanted to make Earth their new home.
Zwzn wrote:That just makes the Moon a better choice in Sailor Moon since it has all the stuff Earth does, and more.
Someone doesn't even have to be a scientist to tell you that you're wrong, wrong, wrong. Any fan of Sailor Moon worth their salt will tell you the same thing. I honestly don't understand how you come up with these kinds of answers... I don't know if I should pity you or be horrified that it's even possible.
Zwzn wrote:I've research the topic seemingly more then you.
I have a large number of examples, from this argument alone, that would say otherwise very strongly.
Zwzn wrote:You need a number a different scientific fields working together as well as equipment Tomoe is never seen to use.
So? It's not uncommon to see the finished product without much or all of the process.
Besides, his lab is clearly shown, and seems to cover whatever he's been creating/making during the story.
Now, then. I wasted five hours that I could have spent writing my fic. You better appreciate this!