Ranma Vs Marvel

[camk4evr]

This is a contiuation of the debate on what Marvel characters that Ranma may or may not beat that developed on Nekomata's crossover idea on the ideas board
The Hulk:
Antimatterenergy: The reason why a Horyu Shoten Ha made tornado may not be considered a tie is that it may just piss the Hulk off even more causing him to return to flatten Ranma and Tokyo as well (almost garaunteed with Ranma's track record).

[antimatterenergy]

I already pretty much said all I had wanted to say over on the other thread.
Well the Hulk may return to flatten Ranma but who's to say Ranma's still there (he did just create a tornado that probably destroyed lots of things and I don't see him staying around to take the blame) or that the fight takes place in Tokyo. Ranma spends a lot of time outside of Tokyo (hot spring owners island, village being terrorized by Happosai, mountains to train, island with Hawaiin tourist virus, etc...). Having Ranma on the run from the Hulk and training so as to find some way to battle the Hulk might make a good fic by itself at least it would give Ranma a reason to seek out training and objects that can be used to fight the Hulk.

[crystlshake]

Ive got sketchy insights to the Hulks character, but he'd still need some kind of motivation to keep chasing Ranma in that case I think. After he calms down, his motivation would probably drop as well I would think.

[Atlan]

'absent head scratching'
Wasnt the Horyu Shoten Ha a tornado that fead off hot chi? The hotter, the more powerfull?
Now call me silly, but wouldnt the Hulk be the biggest dam source of hot chi in the world? A Horyu Shoten Ha would either destroy the hulk, or the enviroment for miles around.
And that's no exageration. The Hulk is one of the strongest (and angryest) charecters in the marvel Universe. He onece smashed a whole asteroid in half with a single punch.

[crystlshake]

Id have to concur with that. Im not sure if even an attempt to disrupt the tech on the hulks part would work with the high amount of energy he'd be feeding it unless he could take out Ranma from continueing to provide a cold source. (I dont remember if the HSH is self sustaining or not.) It may just keep going or getting stronger untill one of them was ko'd by flying debris, ranma canceled the tech or the hulk was ejected from the tornado.

[Knight of L-sama]

Wasnt the Horyu Shoten Ha a tornado that fead off hot chi? The hotter, the more powerfull?
Now call me silly, but wouldnt the Hulk be the biggest dam source of hot chi in the world? A Horyu Shoten Ha would either destroy the hulk, or the enviroment for miles around.
And that's no exageration. The Hulk is one of the strongest (and angryest) charecters in the marvel Universe. He onece smashed a whole asteroid in half with a single punch.

All true but missing one tiny little fact. Not only does Hulk's stregnth increase with his so does his durability. The more ticked he is, the harder he is to hurt. Also worth noting is that in Hulk mode he's one of the few characters who regenerate faster than Wolverine and can literally heal injuries faster than they happen.
As such I doubt the Hiryu Shoten Ha could defeat him. It would however make a great escape technique, tossing the Hulk far enough away that Ranma can make good his escape.

[camk4evr]

Ive got sketchy insights to the Hulks character, but he'd still need some kind of motivation to keep chasing Ranma in that case I think. After he calms down, his motivation would probably drop as well I would think.

It all depends on which of the Hulk's personalities are running the show:
-Fixit would probably hunt Ranma down to teach him a lesson for pissing him off, if he was offered enough cash, or just as an ego trip
-Childlike Hulk would rather not be in a city setting anyways because hewould rather be left alone and would prefer not to . He also has a tendency to return to where the gamma bomb test was held and would not likely be in Japan. However, if Ranma started a fight with him he'd probably prefer to finish
-Savage Hulk would just smash whatever was in front of him and move on
-monstrous Hulk, well I don't have a clue as I'm not really familiar with this version. All I know is that the other Hulk personalities actively work together to keep this one suppressed
-Dr Banner (the one Doc. Samson created when he realized that there was likely no chance he could cure Bruce Banner's MPD) probably wouldn't fight Ranma, in the first place, unless he absolutely had to

[Goldarmy]

You forgot one personality in the list
Maestro: Would fight Ranma, and since he has the brains of Banner and the moral of Red Skull, it won't be a happy end. He would probably throw a cat onto Ranma's face then finish him, as Neko-Ranma is just a Wolverine without healing factor and adamantium.

[camk4evr]

Actually, I didn't forget about the Maestro, I just wasn't sure if he manifested in the present Hulk or if he was still just a future possibile manifestation so I left him out of the list of Hulk personalities.

[khim]

Neko-Ranma is just a Wolverine without healing factor and adamantium.

In Manga - yes, in Anime - he's more deadly. He can literally rip apart anything: wood, steel, spirit (remember the Ghost Cat?). Anything. There are no adamantium in Ranma's world but I'd be not surprised to know that he can destroy even that. And in any case: Hulk does not have adamantium coating. I'm not sure Neko-Ranma can actually kill the Hulk (he's way too big and can regenerate way too fast) but Ranma can easily burrow hole in Hulk's first if he's pissed enough... After all the big white shark is no slouch either - and Neko-Ranme used one as chew-toy once...
P.S. If you think the Neko-Ranma is "not fast enough" then think again: Cologne can easily slip past "normal" Ranma guard, but can not do the same with Neko-Ranma. And she's the master of Amaguriken while even her student (Ranma) can punch 300 times per second. So while Neko-Ranma's significantly less durable then Wolverine (or a lot of other Marvel characters) he's also much harder to hit (unless it's water, of course - Ranma can never avoid water).

[claymade]

In Manga - yes, in Anime - he's more deadly. He can literally rip apart anything: wood, steel, spirit (remember the Ghost Cat?). Anything.

Just because they haven't yet found anything they couldn't slice shouldn't give us any certainty that there isn't. We don't know he can cut through anything--merely that he's cut through everything he's tried so far.
(Also, regarding the Ghost Cat, recall that even normal blows from ordinary martial artists could hurt it--and hurt it quite badly, at that. It was perfectly vincible to all standard attacks, so it doesn't really say much at all about the "ultimate-ness" of the Neko-ken's cutting ability.)

P.S. If you think the Neko-Ranma is "not fast enough" then think again: Cologne can easily slip past "normal" Ranma guard, but can not do the same with Neko-Ranma. And she's the master of Amaguriken while even her student (Ranma) can punch 300 times per second. So while Neko-Ranma's significantly less durable then Wolverine (or a lot of other Marvel characters) he's also much harder to hit (unless it's water, of course - Ranma can never avoid water).

Ah, but that's a bit of a skewed perspective, since Hulk isn't operating on the same level as Cologne. He doesn't need to slip past Ranma's guard like Cologne does--I seriously doubt that Ranma could effectively block him. You're comparing Cologne's ability to do a significantly harder task (get around Ranma's guard) with Hulk's ability to do a relatively easier one (land a hit somewhere in Ranma's general vicinity, if what other posters have said about his strength/ability to generate shockwaves is correct).

[antimatterenergy]

(unless it's water, of course - Ranma can never avoid water).

actually neko-ranma was shredding water as well preventing it from coming near her.
Really throwing a cat at Ranma would not be that good a strategy, Maestro would probably have an easier time dealing with Ranma than neko-Ranma. I don't think Neko-Ranma can beat him it's just that Ranma has a tendency to run away when near a cat so he would have to spend who knows how much time hunting down Ranma (that is if Ranma doesn't ignore or kick the cat away since Ranma has demonstrated that he can do so if he has to or really wants to like when Kasumi was hanging cats on him and he was ok in room full of cats (until tiger showed up). Neko-Ranma would be very, very annoying for the Hulk to fight since Neko-Ranma is very fast and hard to catch also while neko-Ranma will probably be unable to really hurt the Hulk; the Hulk probably won't enjoy being used as a scratching post or being batted into buildings and stuff (the Hulk weighs less than a ton Ranma can throw/punch more than a ton). Ranma's neko-ken claws maybe able to cut through some types of weaker adamantium but pure adamantium is supposedly unbreakable. Though really it would have to have limits as well so it is possible Ranma-neko's claws would be able to do so as well (maybe cut it at the molecular level) who knows. As for cutting through Steel, stone, and wood Ranma has demonstrated the ability to do that with his bare hands in the manga while not in the neko-ken so that's really not that big a feat by Ranma standards (the pressure waves of Kuno's attack - side-effect of the attack itself - was even able to do that).

[FOG3]

actually neko-ranma was shredding water as well preventing it from coming near her.

Water is a Newtonian fluid, by definition it can't resist a shear loading. "Shredding" water is a misnomer at best.

that is if Ranma doesn't ignore or kick the cat away since Ranma has demonstrated that he can do so if he has to or really wants to like when Kasumi was hanging cats on him and he was ok in room full of cats (until tiger showed up).

With Kasumi and co he was petrified, and with Gosunkugi he was manic and bordering on breakdown with the tiger having minimal real effect. He can keep it down for a little bit, but he doesn't have nearly the level of control "ignore" implies.

Neko-Ranma would be very, very annoying for the Hulk to fight since Neko-Ranma is very fast and hard to catch

I mainly find out stuff about NA comics second hand, but isn't this a character known to do something I've seen referred to as the Hulk Clap and cause mass devestation? Of course, to be fair Spiderman can apparently deal with the Hulk.

also while neko-Ranma will probably be unable to really hurt the Hulk; the Hulk probably won't enjoy being used as a scratching post or being batted into buildings and stuff (the Hulk weighs less than a ton Ranma can throw/punch more than a ton).

Incidents of ton level punches outside of the weirdness of the Breaking Point arc (where is only works under one particular interpretation anyway)? Realize at half a ton force a creature weighing around two to three times more then Ranma and co do would be sent flying by an engagement time of approximately half a frame. If you're wondering how the heck I came up with that let's just say I did an estimate to cap the max reasonable force a Guyver is punching with in manga. Note lifting doesn't give you this, you have to show evidence he can actually apply said level of force. Oh and due to the definition of the concept of Force from Newton's second law, if momentum change isn't there the force isn't there.
Otherwise we cap the extreme upper limit at a quarter ton (500 lb) due to not routinely sending people flying in fights.
Edit:
A few thoughts on the HSH debate.
First the Ranma 1/2 Universe is very explicit about using "battle auras" and the interface of these is extremely relevant to the mechanics of the maneuver. Said auras have been shown to have literal cold effects on the surroundings with Sould of Ice training IIRC, and Akane literally lit a fire to simulate a heat source. While this does begin to go against one of the fundamental rules of DM unless the Hulk has been shown to have a hot aura surrounding him, it could be argued the HSH would just result in a misfire against the Hulk.
Of course, one of the inherent problems of Ranma's less powerful, slower, and more conditional Dil Brando analogue is he has to do the spiral around the target unless in very, very special enivronments. To paraphrase a relevant line:
"Ultimate technique, huh? What happens if I take two steps to the right."
Also is there actually an incident where it's ever been something Ranma could "maintain", because the main incidents I remember show no such capability.

[camk4evr]

Incidents of ton level punches outside of the weirdness of the Breaking Point arc (where is only works under one particular interpretation anyway)? Realize at half a ton force a creature weighing around two to three times more then Ranma and co do would be sent flying by an engagement time of approximately half a frame. If you're wondering how the heck I came up with that let's just say I did an estimate to cap the max reasonable force a Guyver is punching with in manga. Note lifting doesn't give you this, you have to show evidence he can actually apply said level of force. Oh and due to the definition of the concept of Force from Newton's second law, if momentum change isn't there the force isn't there.
Otherwise we cap the extreme upper limit at a quarter ton (500 lb) due to not routinely sending people flying in fights.

How much force could Spiderman, and other characters who have the power to anchor themselves in some way, punch with (assuming they're attached to a surface capable of withstanding the force used?

[FOG3]

As phrased I really don't have a way to answer that question. Some things to remember though are it's not that hard to find someone who can lift a few hundred pounds, but I don't know anyone who can do a basic punch with even a hundred pounds of force. Man made clubs for a reason, and it probably wasn't just because blows with a fist make ones hands hurt.
I can ballpark based on whether they do or don't rock back (ie get pushed back by the blow.) or get sent flying by a blow, but one of the biggest problems with NA comics is they on a whole lot tend to be walking no limits fallacies. I'd tend to cap the upper limit at somewhere between 250-500 pounds for Spidey simply because with a punch forces have to, in order for the model to be truly valid, be equal and opposite and Spidey doesn't tend to either send people flying or be rocked by himself. If he routinely targets people's heads I might cap it at under 50. Knowing how NA comics tend to operate I'm not taking any responsibility for that though.