Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

[Wyrd]

First, it is rather rude to dismiss entire sections of fanfiction, some of which have been very well written, merely because you see Ranma as a guy and don't think he could ever fall for another guy. It is especially rude to be quite so offensive in how you posted it. Posting that you do not understand these fics and would like someone to defend them would have been perfectly reasonable, and is the imaginary post I am going to be responding to.

For Ranma falling for another guy, several things need to be considered:

One is that quite a few fanfictions are deliberately made AU(alternate universe) where Ranma is a different person in either small or large ways.

Second is that Ranma's sexuality is never explored in the series, except to show that he is rather uncomfortable(often for good reason) around people of both genders when they are pursuing him romantically. He has a very overblown concept of masculinity and exactly what being a guy does/should entail thanks to his dad and the way he was raised. He is also very insecure about his masculinity, as his father has attacked him constantly by belittling him as being 'like a girl' for most of his life, and suddenly he spends half of his time as one. Together these make Ranma admitting to attraction for anyone very unlikely, with a guy being less likely than a girl, but that does not affect who he is attracted to.

Third is the very real possibility that the nyannichuan messed with his sexual orientation, making him either bi or heterosexual while female, and possibly affecting his male orientation as well.

Specific pairings depend on how well written they are. I've seen one(just one) believably write him winding up falling for Kuno Tatewaki as a girl. That particular pairing is very difficult to make believable, though.

In short, the idea does not even stretch credibility, much less break suspension of disbelief, unless poorly written or because you have some personal aversion to the concept. It doesn't even need to violate canon for some of these stories to be completely plausible. I read one fic where how much time he spent in each form determined his orientation: 50/50 he is bi, the more time he spends male, the more he is attracted to girls, and the more time he spends as a girl the more he becomes attracted to guys.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

Yeah, it really depends. I can understand if it's a development due to character interaction, because love is, in the end, love. Or if the circumstances dictate adaptation, and Ranma willingly or unwittingly convinces herself (usually with flawed, indoctrinated and/or culturalized logic) that, since she's a girl, she can only have sexual/romantic relationships with guys. On the other hand, an automatic attraction to males is lame, and for the lazy. The same goes for using the nyannichuan, by adding a mental change to it.

Personally, I don't care much for the hormones excuse. I honestly don't believe that it affects sexual orientation. I also believe a person can enjoy pleasure and personality with another person regardless of their sex, because sex is independent from both. It only becomes an issue when it comes to reproduction. I'd like to think that humans have this mind over matter ability, and that people who can't see beyond a reproductive partner -- and, in fact, condemn it -- are the ones who are lacking in said ability.

[TerraEpon]

Ranma is HARDLY the only person people will write fanfics where the orientation is not canon, or what's implied by canon. It's just easy to make Ranma fall for a guy because he can have a female body. My personal problem with most of them is that when he's not locked it's not yaoi enough -- very often it's implied if not shown that any....affectionate activity...is limited which Ranma is in the female body. THAT is what bothers me.

But anyway, just sticking with Ranma, how many fics have made any of the girls lesbians? Ukyo is about as canonically male-loving as it gets, yet in a story I read yesterday it's all a sham and she hates Ranma, and is a lesbian.

Ryoga falling for male Ranma (i.e. that;s where the obsession comes from) isn't uncommon....or Ryoga + Mousse, etc etc

People write fanfic for 'what if". Yes there's a point where it gets so divorced that characters are unregnizable, but with good writing, most any thing can go from "point A in canon" to "point B in what would otherwise be ooc". There's a fantastic story where Haruka is a confirmed bisexual and quite in love with Ranma well before he even gets the curse, for instance.

And honestly, bitching about this on a site dedicated to Ranma dressing in the girliest of outfits seems a bit....wrong placed.

[Wyrd]

Personally, I don't care much for the hormones excuse. I honestly don't believe that it affects sexual orientation. I also believe a person can enjoy pleasure and personality with another person regardless of their sex, because sex is independent from both. It only becomes an issue when it comes to reproduction. I'd like to think that humans have this mind over matter ability, and that people who can't see beyond a reproductive partner -- and, in fact, condemn it -- are the ones who are lacking in said ability.

Not hormones--that's just bad biology. If hormones could alter a person's orientation, then there would be no transgender individuals who wind up homosexual(i.e. the sex they transition to is the same one they are attracted to), and there would have been people touting hormone therapy as a 'cure' for homosexuality all over the place. Instead I am referring to the fact that he physically changes completely to a girl, completely enough for the Musk to use the nyannichuan to create child bearing women, which includes the possibility that the physical structure of his brain changes, and with it what chemical and physical signals his brain looks for to signal attraction. He does not need to act on these different signals, but it is very believable that he is aware of different responses to stimuli while in his different forms. An example is the fanon idea that he only eats ice cream as a girl because it tastes so much better.

That said, as one sex researcher put it, the most powerful erogenous zone is the mind. You can train the mind of a purely heterosexual person to find physical pleasure in the presence of others of their own gender by teaching the mind to associate a different source of pleasure with them, creating a sort of Pavlovian response. There are people who claim that they have 'cured' homosexuals by using such methods despite the fact that it has no effect on their enjoyment of their own sex, merely giving them the ability to function with the opposite sex.

Just to be clear, I put cure in quotes because I am referring to their assertion that it is a disease, a view which I do not share.

[three headed dog]

Second is that Ranma's sexuality is never explored in the series, except to show that he is rather uncomfortable(often for good reason) around people of both genders when they are pursuing him romantically. He has a very overblown concept of masculinity and exactly what being a guy does/should entail thanks to his dad and the way he was raised. He is also very insecure about his masculinity, as his father has attacked him constantly by belittling him as being 'like a girl' for most of his life, and suddenly he spends half of his time as one

It is somewhat in that we see Ranma have nightmares about being with guys such as the one at the watermelon island where he has a nightmare about having Tatewaki's children and early in the manga the nightmare he had about Tatewaki saying that he loves Ranma. We've also seen that he is attracted to girls by his reaction to Shampoo occasionally the most obvious time being the only time he ever got a nose bleed by a nude Shampoo. That bit about his father constantly belittling him by saying he is like a girl for most of his life is fanon or anime canon. In the manga Genma doesn't say stuff like that (Ranma would beat the crap out of Genma if he did; not to mention all the powerful girls like Cologne, Shampoo, Kodachi, Ukyo, etc.- they'd all beat on Genma if he were to talk like that).

[Crescent Pulsar R]

(The first paragraph isn't directed at or arguing with you, Wyrd. Just so there's no confusion. Though your post did bring it to mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. If I don't, I can't find out if it's agreeable or if I'm an idiot. That also applies to the second paragraph, of course. I don't go to school or read books, so this is how I learn. Weeee~)

I don't care for the genetics argument, either, now that I think about it. I don't believe that homosexuality or bisexuality is a "mistake." Using genetics as a rule, rather than the exception, seems like a cop out because it's an easy answer to a question that science can't yet put to rest with any surety.

I'm willing to go with brain chemistry being responsible, though. It makes more sense, to me, because chemicals have different commands for different receptors. The more often a chemical is used, the more likely the body will adapt to accept more of it, thus expanding its potential effect. It especially makes sense since we know that thoughts aren't completely ruled by chemicals, as chemicals are also released and used according to our thoughts. At least, I imagine that there would be a feedback loop if it only went one way, and we'd all end up being passionate and obsessive about anything that initially catches our interest. Or maybe I don't quite understand how the body's chemistry works. ;/

It is somewhat in that we see Ranma have nightmares about being with guys such as the one at the watermelon island where he has a nightmare about having Tatewaki's children and early in the manga the nightmare he had about Tatewaki saying that he loves Ranma. We've also seen that he is attracted to girls by his reaction to Shampoo occasionally the most obvious time being the only time he ever got a nose bleed by a nude Shampoo. That bit about his father constantly belittling him by saying he is like a girl for most of his life is fanon or anime canon. In the manga Genma doesn't say stuff like that (Ranma would beat the crap out of Genma if he did; not to mention all the powerful girls like Cologne, Shampoo, Kodachi, Ukyo, etc.- they'd all beat on Genma if he were to talk like that).

I just want to add to that, by saying that, in addition to there being no real evidence that he's interested in guys (while a girl or otherwise), Ranma still shows interest in girls even when he is a girl (based on bodily reactions as well as thoughts).

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

On Genma constantly belittling Ranma's masculinity as anime-canon, I just have to say this: It. Is. Not. Genma's infamous "You sound like a girl!" crack happens twice, out of all 160-something episodes, out of all of Genma's many appearances, he only says it during the first episode of the first season (prior to displaying Ranma's curse to the Tendos) and during the last episode of the first season (at the very beginning, after Ranma begins his rants about how life since Jusenkyo sucks).

The one other time Genma makes any complaints at all about Ranma being feminine is during the notorious "Am I...Pretty?" episode, in which Ranma is not only thinking of himself as a girl, but acting stereotypically "girly"; "she" wants to give up on martial arts forever, abhores violence, daydreams about becoming a bride... even then, the one time he says something that is at all misogynistic (as opposed to screaming at Ranma to "snap out of it" when he first hears Ranma wants to become a pacifist) is a worried-yet-casual "you're becoming more girlish by the minute" when he hears that Ranma made dinner that night.

[mondu_the_fat]

On Genma constantly belittling Ranma's masculinity as anime-canon, I just have to say this: It. Is. Not. Genma's infamous "You sound like a girl!" crack happens twice, out of all 160-something episodes, out of all of Genma's many appearances, he only says it during the first episode of the first season (prior to displaying Ranma's curse to the Tendos) and during the last episode of the first season (at the very beginning, after Ranma begins his rants about how life since Jusenkyo sucks).

So, how many times does something have to happen before it is canon?

As for the topic itself:

I'm not fond of Ranma ending up with a guy for the simple matter that the instances where he shows interest in a guy, it is a means to an end. Him being genuinely attracted to another man, especially sexually, is simply completely out of character. But as we are talking about fanfiction where events are obviously not Takahashi's, I don't see why not. There just has to be a good in-story reason. Lumping it at the same category as a Yaoi fic is kinda unfair. A lot of Yaoi fics exist for the _sole_ reason of lumping two male characters together. I have yet to see such a Ranma + other male story.

[Spokavriel]

The arguement isn't even if it happens its when. There is no evidence that the insult was used before Ranma got cursed. Although there are many times in translations where I saw digs at Ranma's masculinity without using the exact words. Enough to make me think that Genma is use to digging at it. And with that Contract in Nodoka's hand existing he has a good motive to. So is it fannon to assume things that do happen in cannon could have happened pre cannon?

[Pale Wolf]

I'm not going to get into this discussion, except to point out that many people are interested in their own gender even without being in the body of (and possessing the brain structure and hormones of) the opposite gender.

To be sure, it's often very badly done, but that's a condemnation of the authors, not the concept. A thing you'll learn is that a good writer can take very nearly any concept and make it not just work, but work so well it feels completely natural.

However, as a forum moderator, I take exception to your tone. You may not have intended this, but your opening post comes off highly aggressive and confrontational. You're writing off an entire subset of fiction - and sure, it may not be to your taste, but please don't act as if it's a universal assessment that allows you to insult people who like it.

And please, please, please. If you're going to have to be arrogant and dismissive... at least use the language properly while you're doing it. Spelling, grammar, capitalization... they're not very difficult.

As TerraEpon noted, posting with that tone on a site like this looks so misplaced I have to wonder if you're just trolling us.

This isn't an official warning, consider it a step below.

[Wyrd]

It is somewhat in that we see Ranma have nightmares about being with guys such as the one at the watermelon island where he has a nightmare about having Tatewaki's children and early in the manga the nightmare he had about Tatewaki saying that he loves Ranma. We've also seen that he is attracted to girls by his reaction to Shampoo occasionally the most obvious time being the only time he ever got a nose bleed by a nude Shampoo. That bit about his father constantly belittling him by saying he is like a girl for most of his life is fanon or anime canon. In the manga Genma doesn't say stuff like that (Ranma would beat the crap out of Genma if he did; not to mention all the powerful girls like Cologne, Shampoo, Kodachi, Ukyo, etc.- they'd all beat on Genma if he were to talk like that).

Actually, having nightmares about guys being attracted to his female form is perfectly natural regardless of whether he is attracted to guys. It would not make much sense if he was attracted to guys prior to 'the dip,' but if such an attraction had begun to manifest, he would have no way of mentally dealing with it. A pleasant dream where, in the dream, he feels attracted to the guy in question would especially be a nightmare for him once he wakes up as he feels his masculinity is being stolen from him by the curse. A female wet dream fantasizing about being with a guy while he is a girl is something he would never admit to anyone else, and would also not fit within the tone of Takahashi's work, as it would be stepping just over a line she was careful to keep intact.

[Uldihaa]

For me, I was always curious about one of the things Takahashi refused to explore: Just how would gender-shifting affect sexuality. She carefully avoided exploring that, except when some aspect might be used for laughs. Such as the 'Kuno Nightmares'.

You can't even rely on real-world information, since we can't seem to get any solid understanding of sexuality and gender. Just look at different theories on this thread alone!

It all comes down to looking at Ranma and trying to get in his head. Unless you're Rumiko Takahashi, it's always going to be slightly wrong. How much 'wrong' you can tolerate is a personal issue.

I'll also point out that Takahashi tended to 'pose' Ranma exactly like her female characters when he was in his cursed form. The way Ranma-chan stood, walked, and moved was extremely feminine. That body language alone could be used to hint at something going on beneath Ranma's conscious mind. Of course I'm fully aware that it's just Takahashi's art style, but it is technically canon.

[Spokavriel]

Posting in anger can be a way to vent. But letting the tone carry over to your words, in a community that might have reason to defend the situation, is a quick way to spark a flame war.

Flames are good for Marshmallows but not so much for computers

What about the weak house daddy and waitress visions when thinking about life with Ukyo? Allot of the futures he's had in those kind of moments have had him in what might be seen as more of the woman's role. Including thinking about life with the Amazons looking at Mousse as the only real example he has to go by.

Then again its 3AM here so I might not be awake enough to remember the difference between fannon and cannon.