Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:36 pm

still it falls into fanon that Ramna is effected that way

No Spok gave you a pretty good example of a very stereotypical feminine reaction Ranma had to a situation. That was canon. His interpretation of what that represented is what you can denounce or argue but you can't just say that's fanon. How do you interpret Ranma's reaction there? Why didn't he just deck the guy? Why did he run off crying? Your interpretation can differ but just saying 'not canon' isn't having a discussion it's just dismissing the argument.

You say the springs aren't mental for Ranma and his father just to name a short example. This is by it's nature impossible. Ranma changes into a girl. He has female hormones and a female brain. A female brain is differently wired then a male brain science fact. Estrogen causes different interactions and causes different emotions then testosterone science fact. Why then is it impossible to believe Ranma acts differently in his female form? You're saying then that Ranma really isn't a girl in girl form? Genma and the other animal cursed members all knew how to use their bodies near instantly. That implies at least instinctual knowledge is implanted in all their brains. The human body is not wired to walk on all fours or to fly. How then did they know how to use these bodies. You realize then that there are tons of implications for Ranma getting some sort of instincts too right? These are all questions you need to ask yourself before going, 'not canon'.

"Dark lords of Nerima" Claymade manages to keep a fairly canon character interpritation of Ramna through out

I like that story so don't take this as a knock against it but no. He doesn't. He takes Ranma and spins him into an extremely serious war. Things and people die. That is not canon Ranma or a canonish Ranma approach. It isn't Ranma becoming a girl but that's nowhere near the standard light Ranma run of stories. You can say with it not taking that run in his sequel that's up on this forum in C&C right now that he's doing so by not having those events affect the cast, but overall that story didn't feel like canon. Characters grew and had development and sacrificed, that's not a huge part of Ranma canon.

This does not make them bad, just non-canonical.

I can't see how you're even calling something 'canonical' when you're referring to fanfiction. By it's nature it's existence isn't canon. Saying something is 'in-character' is a far better phrase then 'canonical'. And really you can develop interactions of characters in different directions when given time and still be 'in-character', it's just as I've said before rare.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:01 pm

If we want to argue about canon, I say it's canon that Ranma doesn't settle down with anybody, boy, girl, or Jusenkyo aardvaark. And it's pretty canon (if unstated) that he's a virgin. (If Sanzenin is his first kiss, odds are he was a virgin up to then.)

As long as Takahashi is in charge, it's going to stay that way. Ranma settling down is fanon, not canon. The closest we come to a canon "with" is Akane, and that's not likely to go anywhere.

That's why we write fan-fiction: to give some kind of resolution to these long-simmering situations before they boil over.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:43 pm

You do know that the behavior of Ranma and all of the characters in Anime doesn't exactly match Manga. And to be honest looking at allot of Anime Only stories it becomes allot more likely. Next time I am at a loss for what to read I'll review what I have available then point out some (Imagining at least a half dozen) examples if the thread isn't too old by then.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:08 pm

kjyl wrote:As for Ramna having a female brain and what not , to throw it back, Magic spring.

That's the argument so many people make when that's brought up. Quite frankly it sucks because there is no response to it. Basically you just said, "A is a fact. So then B must be a fact too," without defining what A or B are. Of course the springs are magical. The springs CAN change one mentally as has been shown. The springs DO implant knowledge on how to use one's newly implanted body. The problem you face if that's your argument is that you're then saying that ones brain doesn't change in the new form one is given. So any animal dunked therein by the Musk for example will never gain humanity, and thus their children that they had with them are animals too? What about the personality altering springs we supposed to wave our hands and go don't exist? What about humans changed into animals eating food or engaging in behavior normal to those animals or does that not happen either? Of course we haven't seen them have offspring in these cursed forms but that doesn't mean such a thing can't or couldn't happen. However, those in animal forms would fight harder against it then a person with a gender curse since they are still human and aren't dehumanizing themselves. That doesn't mean that it would be overly common just not some impossibility that you seem to believe.

Is there something you have a problem with in imagining that Ranma in female form is female? Why is that a problem for you? Why is it so hard to believe that his sexual orientation MIGHT change with a splash of water? Why is it so incredibly out of character in your opinion for Ranma with proper character development to grudgingly become female?


them remain "in character" through out, with the bar of "in character" changing as the character itself does. This is actually pretty hard to do and a mark of a good writer. Doesn't mean you have to like where it goes, but that does not take away from the techical skill.

Nice sane, valid response. But the rest of your comments indicate a subtext of, 'but this can never really happen when Ranma becomes female because I don't personally like it.' I can understand you not personally liking a story for aspects that it contains. I personally detest all of Mykon1's fics on Mediaminer for sexual situations I feel remarkably uncomfortable with. Also, I dislike stories where Ranma has a harem in excess of two girls that's a personal preference. That doesn't mean I can't respect stories therein with elements I don't like, I just don't read them. If that is how you feel about '-chan' stories that's fine just say that is the case. Don't hide it.

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:If we want to argue about canon, I say it's canon that Ranma doesn't settle down with anybody,

Nah canon is Ranma/Akane regardless of compatibility and other factors. They'll settle down quite shortly in post-canon regardless of if it seems possible or not.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby PCHeintz72 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:57 pm

Nah canon is Ranma/Akane regardless of compatibility and other factors. They'll settle down quite shortly in post-canon regardless of if it seems possible or not.

No... of all the auguments and views in this thread, this I take a stance against...

He *could* end up with Akane. He does *not* in canon material in either anime or manga, actually do so. The end of the manga clearly shows absolutely nothing was resolved and all went to status quo. There is no end depicted in regards to the relationship issues, and no consequences for any potential betrayals that seemed to occur at the wedding scene in the manga. What you are stating is your belief and supposition, not canon, as it is not on screen or in the pages available as part of the series.


In regards to in character, or canonical... any fan fiction what so ever based on a series, any 3rd party story automatically deviates from it. A author could write anything he or she wants... the trick is making it believable to the readers... only the copyright holders to the rights of Ranma can extend or expand the canon material for the series at this point, and only by releasing new official books or official video.


In regards to the thread topic itself... Do I believe Ranko aka Ranma-chan end up with a guy. My own personal preferences aside, I do believe it could be written believably, and without mind control. Having said that, I personally have only seen a couple over the years I find truly believable enough that do not use such in one form or another.

As a hypothetical approach... Ranma as male could be so tramatized or disgusted or disillusioned over the antics by those to win him he is turned off to females, and thus eventually seeks a alternative relationship with a guy, or even does not outright seek it but falls into it... it is IMHO possible to write it that way. It would need buildup to make it believable though, which is key, and what a lot of authors do not do.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby LawOhki » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:19 pm

kjyl wrote:Good question. Partially it may have a bit to do with the fact that I have several trans friends and one of the common threads in their experience is the sheer body horror that they have from being in the "wrong" bodies. I guess just suggesting that they buck up and be happy with it seems,,, crass? And I guess Ranma being a person stuck in the wrong body remindes me of them.

Sort of like how a lot of people who pass anti-lgbt legislation always have friends.

I've mentioned it before in an author note but Ranma turns into a girl, not a girl with the mind of a boy. There's little reason to assume Ranma retains a male gender identify while female other than a bias towards it. That doesn't stop Ranma from preferring to be male. However I would point out that for the vast, VAST, majority of the manga Ranma says nothing about it and never indicates any issue one or the other. Then for a small number of story arcs he suddenly jumps through hoops of fire at the thought of a cure for a cheap laugh.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:02 pm

Still if it is true, Akari needs to keep an eye on her pigs.

Umm...I doubt he'd give into that but do I think the interest could actually be there yes. It's a curse. Aspects of it aren't going to be pleasant. Would imagine that would be one of the aspects. Ranma being attracted to guys in the same way. Curse. Would not be pleasant.

I have several trans friends and one of the common threads in their experience is the sheer body horror that they have from being in the "wrong" bodies

Well I don't have any transsexual friends, nor know any personally. I do know a couple gay folks pretty well as they're co-workers, and I also have three lesbian family members in my extended family. Really don't think that matters. Considering that that community strongly supported this series don't think that fits in here. Yes, Ranma is technically a transsexual, in the loosest possible definition of the term, in canon and yes he could be quite horrified at the body he is forced into...I just don't see him expressing that often and rampantly enough to buy into it. The magic doesn't seem to work that way.

so they decide to hurt him another way and use locked cursed boy water on Akane. Basically to try to destroy his "happiness" with the thing he wants most IE a cure.

Read quite a few fics where something along these lines happen. The problem with most of them is the lack of tension with the other fiancees and the whole Akane is destined bit. Ranma never has enough hesitation and development time within them. Would be interesting if you can fit it in better.

He *could* end up with Akane. He does *not* in canon material in either anime or manga

Really? I don't know how much clearer Takashi could've made it that they were the destined couple. Ryouga got a terrible character in Akari. Ukyou got an awkward relationship with Konatsu. And Shampoo still has her wonderful stalker in Mousse. Ranma/Akane is canon solid. I can't imagine you thinking otherwise. That doesn't mean I like Akane. I hate Akane. But her and Ranma are DESTINED in Takashi's eyes. So much is that the case that I usually inherently find Ranma/Akane fics to be boring. Really can't see myself arguing that or being swayed sorry.

Sort of like how a lot of people who pass anti-lgbt legislation

Tsk Lawra you're such a meany.

Then for a small number of story arcs he suddenly jumps through hoops of fire at the thought of a cure for a cheap laugh.

Pretty sure most of that is Takashi not having a clear vision for the series as a whole. Honestly she's not that good a writer. She writes interesting characters and interesting ideas and is very often funny (her saving grace and selling feature...Well that and her recent over the top bishonen). But dramatic writing from her? Usually fail. Her mermaid stuff was really the best stuff she's written from a quality perspective and even that had problems with consistency.
Last edited by frice2000 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby LawOhki » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:29 pm

kjyl wrote:And reported,

Even if we do not agree on some plot points please do not resort to personal attacks.

Sorry I don't respect your appeal to authority when your assertion seems to boil down to "Ranma needs magical mind rape or would never be anything other than a heterosexual male." Ranma is not a transsexual, he's someone who literally changes genders with magic. There is no real world counterpart.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby PCHeintz72 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:12 am

Really? I don't know how much clearer Takashi could've made it that they were the destined couple. Ryouga got a terrible character in Akari. Ukyou got an awkward relationship with Konatsu. And Shampoo still has her wonderful stalker in Mousse. Ranma/Akane is canon solid. I can't imagine you thinking otherwise. That doesn't mean I like Akane. I hate Akane. But her and Ranma are DESTINED in Takashi's eyes. So much is that the case that I usually inherently find Ranma/Akane fics to be boring. Really can't see myself arguing that or being swayed sorry.

This is not a personal view or belief on my part, nor my opinion or desire... but intentions beside the point, nowhere is it depicted in canon material that is actually what happens. Refer me to or link me to the page in manga or scene in anime canon materials where as you state "They'll settle down quite shortly in post-canon regardless of if it seems possible or not.", and I will retract the statement.

I admit it certainly *looks* like they will end up together. But that is not canon. Also, everything in the last chapter was done to insure the status quo at the end of the series...

My point it you were *extrapolating* in the phrase I quoted... that is not *canon*.

I could just as easily state something over the top like: Ranma will force concessions upon the Tendos in a couple more days or so after the wedding once he realizes everything that occured, including the loss of his supposed cure and the blackmail to go through with the wedding, was their fault and possibly use it as evidence they broke the agreement and it is no longer needed to join the schools. *not* canon by any means...
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:08 am

LawOhki wrote:Sort of like how a lot of people who pass anti-lgbt legislation always have friends.

For Pete's sake! Sometimes people actually do have friends. Cheap shot, there. As Freud was eventually forced to say, there are times when a cigar is nothing but a cigar.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:39 am

You wouldn't have the titles of any of those off hand would you?

Lightly here, replace Akane with Kasumi here, check completely, getting to be a plot point here I believe, a long long way in and still developing so might not fit right and not Akane but still that plot point, not the technically best written story and not Akane but check, not Akane and not really to be taken serious but check, Edit: check.

Refer me to or link me to the page in manga or scene in anime canon materials where as you state "They'll settle down quite shortly in post-canon regardless of if it seems possible or not."

Don't feel like arguing this point. I'll just retract my statement.
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