Making Ranma more civilized?

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Should Ranma act more civilized?

Yes, we need to make that country bumpkin into a respectable human being!
1
3%
Yes, we need to make that country bumpkin into a respectable human being!
1
3%
No! Screw the man! and his manners!
7
23%
No! Screw the man! and his manners!
7
23%
Why are you wasting my time with this drivel?
7
23%
Why are you wasting my time with this drivel?
7
23%
 
Total votes : 30

Making Ranma more civilized?

Postby Xenos » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:28 pm

OK, this is one half rant and one half question, and rather long winded, so please bare with me.

Commonly in fanfiction authors will change one or more of the characters in some major way. Now some times this can be a good thing, and produce some vary interesting stories - for example, what if Ranma was born a girl, or was a sadistic bastard - and retell the story from the beginning with the characters changed. Other times these changes can just seem ooc, like where Ranma is actually much smarter then was ever indicated in cannon and uses that intelligence to solve many, if not all, of his problems, or Ranma suddenly deciding he wants to embrace his feminine side (though I have read and enjoyed many fics like this, I could never see cannon Ranma EVER doing this.)

But there are others where I can not help but wonder what the point of the change is. Specifically there are many times when the author will make one character act like another character. The most obvious example I can think of is the Naruto fics where Naruto acts like Sasuke, I remember seeing one on FF.net where the summery said something along the lines of 'what if Naruto acted like Sasuke', I didn't read it. If you want to write a story about Sasuke, write a story about Sasuke, don't turn Naruto into Sasuke.

But this is all beside the point, the point I would like to discus is all the times Ranma has been made more civilized. This often happens when some other character shows the error of his ways, and instructs him how to act in society as a proper young lady/lad. The question I would ask is WHY? Why is it that we keep insisting on civilizing Ranma?

While I admit Ranma's unrefined manner is the cause of many of his problems. (If he just learnt to be a bit more polite maybe Akane wouldn't continue to clobber him) Is it not these same unrefined manners the make Ranma such an enduring character? He doesn't think a lot about what should or should not be said, or what others will think of him because of what he said, or how he said it. He always speaks his mind, and does what he wants. Are these not in there own way admirable traits? I know I have wished on more then one occasion that I was courageous enough or just ignorant enough to be able to act like that. This of course is not limited to Ranma but many other characters like him, Naruto or Goku for example.

At the end of the day everyone including the fans are willing to accuse Ranma of the 'sin' of being uncivilized. But perhaps we should remember that being uncivilized is not always a bad thing, and that maybe that this uncivilized characteristic is as important, if not more so, to the character as his history, the circumstances he is in, his curse, his pigtail, or the colour of his eyes. What I'm saying should by no means be taken as an attack on fics that do make Ranma more civilized, some of the best fics I have read end up making Ranma more civilized at some point.

What I am asking you is this: Is Ranma's uncivilized nature a character flaw that should be fixed for Ranma's own good, or a character trait that should be embraced as an essential part of who he/she is and presented not always as a negative but also as a positive characteristic that may also show us the flaws in us civilized people?
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Postby mondu_the_fat » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:51 am

The question I would ask is WHY? Why is it that we keep insisting on civilizing Ranma?


Ranma (and not just Ranma, but everyone in the series itself) shows very little character growth.

_all_ of fanfiction is a big "what if". Change is one of them. Even OOC has its uses, depending on the skill of the writer.

For the most part, I'd rather not read a fanfic where pure status quo is maintained. Canon already does that enough.

What I am asking you is this: Is Ranma's uncivilized nature a character flaw that should be fixed for Ranma's own good, or a character trait that should be embraced as an essential part of who he/she is and presented not always as a negative but also as a positive characteristic that may also show us the flaws in us civilized people?


Depends on what the story calls for.

If anything, I see more fics (not just Ranma, nor just fanfiction, but any character with a "negative" aspect of their personality) where the non-standard behavior always a good thing. In fiction, social conformity is portrayed as a bad thing. Usagi's ditziness almost always results in something positive, for example. If anything wrong ever comes out of her choices (such as trusting the wrong person), in the end it'll sort itself out and, surprise, Usagi's approach was right all along. Ever see a Ranma fic where he bites off more than he can chew and the story ends up him learning a lesson in humility? It's rare.
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:50 am

I honestly don't find Ranma to be all that uncivilized. He tends to show plenty of manners and respect when he doesn't have anything more important to think about, or do. After all, why care about walking in the hallway if someone's attacking you, when picking up the pace would help deal with the threat?

So, I think he's fine just the way that he is. He bathes when he can, eats with chopsticks when he isn't too hungry, and he knows better than to spy upon naked girls.

At least he doesn't make a habit of removing his clothes, playing around with animals, and trying to speak with them using animal sounds. :P
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Postby antimatterenergy » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:39 pm

Ranma is civilized, when he wants to be, the thing is he treats people the way they treat him. He knows how to and does act properly when first meeting people or when he has to. For example, he uses honorifics when talking to Kasumi or occasionally Soun (since he is a guest at the house). He was polite to the Tendo's when he first came (until they started insulting him). He doesn't insult people until after they either directly or indirectly insult him. He has no trouble talking and getting along with classmates. He has shown manners and politeness when he needed to (example around his mother and while in disguise). The thing is you want Ranma to treat you with respect and be polite than you have to treat him with respect and be polite. He also is extremely clean, cleans a mess when he sees it and complains whenever he gets dirty.

bit more polite maybe Akane wouldn't continue to clobber him


Completely 100% untrue. Akane hits him for the actions of other like Shampoo or Nabiki. He usually insults her after she insulted or hit him. When he is polite she becomes suspicious and thinks he's trying to get away with something. She doesn't allow him to explain (he directly complains about this in the manga) and she reinterprets what he says. Example in one are arc he explains something, later we see how Akane interpreted it which was: blah, blah, Your, blah, breasts are, blah too small.
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Postby Gaming Ikari » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:15 am

Fics that focus on civilizing Ranma can be fun. Suddenly changing his demeanor so that he's a civilized human being with no explanation is not.

I tend to view his brashness as a character trait. Sure, it's a negative character trait which can be ignored from time to time if a story calls for it, but his naivety towards common social interaction is as much a part of his character as his martial arts are.
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Postby three headed dog » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:11 am

his naivety towards common social interaction is as much a part of his character as his martial arts are.


I'm going by the manga, but Ranma's social skills are often grossly worse in fan fiction. The thing is Ranma does have pretty decent social skills. He makes use of sarcasm, uses psychological tactics in battle (insults, distractions, costumes,etc..), has repeatedly manipulated people in the manga, was able to recognize Akane's crush on Dr Tofu immediately, uses honorifics when he has to or to people who did not do anything in which causes him to not respect them, has managed to go on successful dates with people, apologizes to people he feels he wronged, etc... He does have intimacy issues though kissing, hugging, etc... is a pretty easy way to unsettle him (To the point that Genma made an attack based on that).
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Postby Gaming Ikari » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:19 am

Oh, I'll certainly agree that Ranma's not an uncivilized barbarian (that would be Ryouga), but at the same time he's largely a product of being raised by one man and it shows in a lot of his attitudes. Consciously or not, he chooses to be different and make a spectacle of himself, which is great for his ego but not so much for trying to make actual friends.

It's more like he knows what it would take to be normal and it's not worth the trouble for him because he likes to stand out in a crowd, no matter how much lightning he draws as a side effect.
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Re: Making Ranma more civilized?

Postby Anchoku » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:31 am

Ranma's uncivilized behavior is exactly how he is. Doing something to correct it is the fan author's decision based on personal tastes. If a fan fiction writer was interested in making Ranma more civilized, it might help to remember he is sixteen and is still maturing into an adult. As the teen hormone rush subsides and he gets more experience with civilized behavior through those around him, I would expect him to mellow. However, Takahashi kept Ranma 1/2 in an "endless summer" setting where time seemed stuck and none of the characters matured much, if at all.

Remember, as Mondu pointed out, Takahashi's characters are charicatures. Each of the characters in Ranma 1/2 are parodies of real human behavior. It is not possible to reconcile their behavior in the manga with a real person's behavior. They are all critically flawed and would be institutionalized if the story were based closer to reality.

Ranma is insulting and selfish.
Akane is bi-polar with her violent temper and mental blind-spots.
Nabiki is driven by greed and selfishness.
Kasumi is as empty-headed a character as I've ever seen but hints at having a mean streak.
Soun and Genma are both seriously broken men.
Nodoka lives in an insane fantasy life.
The Kuno family are criminally insane.
Ukyou, Tsubasa, and Konatsu simply cannot be as into cross-dressing as they have shown unless they naturally lean that way.
The Joketsu group are all of the above, and so on.

Making Ranma more civilized can happen either by bludgeoning him with the OOC stick until he looks less like Ranma and more like an original character, or by having him learn to be less flawed. The later technique is my preference because my stories tend to be shoujo and focused on character development and romance more than shonen, which spends more time on action and events. Either way is fine for fan fiction and can be done well, or not so well.

You have touched on two flaws common to fan fictions: Ranma becoming an entirely different character, and all the characters exhibiting similar behavior. Ranma has sixteen years of ingrained behavior that cannot be changed quickly or easily. Most fan works, including my own, make light of this behavioral inertia. The second flaw is a writer's problem where the author cannot make the characters distinct from one another. Distinct characters is something I strive for because it is so important to the reader but is more difficult than it seems.
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Re: Making Ranma more civilized?

Postby KonokoHasano » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:13 am

Ranma's uncivilized behavior is exactly how he is. Doing something to correct it is the fan author's decision based on personal tastes. If a fan fiction writer was interested in making Ranma more civilized, it might help to remember he is sixteen and is still maturing into an adult. As the teen hormone rush subsides and he gets more experience with civilized behavior through those around him, I would expect him to mellow. However, Takahashi kept Ranma 1/2 in an "endless summer" setting where time seemed stuck and none of the characters matured much, if at all.

No, Ranma can be civilized. Just look at the story arcs that involve him being just that. The Picolet Chardin arc is an example of that... it's just that in the stretchy mouths' view, she wasn't. Also, I wouldn't exactly say that hanging around with the people that Ranma does would make one more 'civilized', especially when you look at just WHO they are. Ranma is just fine in how he is.

Remember, as Mondu pointed out, Takahashi's characters are charicatures. Each of the characters in Ranma 1/2 are parodies of real human behavior. It is not possible to reconcile their behavior in the manga with a real person's behavior. They are all critically flawed and would be institutionalized if the story were based closer to reality.

Ranma is insulting and selfish.
Akane is bi-polar with her violent temper and mental blind-spots.
Nabiki is driven by greed and selfishness.
Kasumi is as empty-headed a character as I've ever seen but hints at having a mean streak.
Soun and Genma are both seriously broken men.
Nodoka lives in an insane fantasy life.
The Kuno family are criminally insane.
Ukyou, Tsubasa, and Konatsu simply cannot be as into cross-dressing as they have shown unless they naturally lean that way.
The Joketsu group are all of the above, and so on.

Ranma is only really insulting when the situation calls for it. He can be polite and all, but if someone gets on his nerves, why fiddle around with pleasantries. Ranma can be selfish, yes, but he can also be sneaky, manipulative, petty, crafty, and whatever else. He's not really a two-dimensional character. In fact, the majority of characters are portrayed a lot better in the earlier parts of the series. By the later parts, everything is so flandarized that it's crazy.

Making Ranma more civilized can happen either by bludgeoning him with the OOC stick until he looks less like Ranma and more like an original character, or by having him learn to be less flawed. The later technique is my preference because my stories tend to be shoujo and focused on character development and romance more than shonen, which spends more time on action and events. Either way is fine for fan fiction and can be done well, or not so well.

No, all that is needed is for Ranma to be in the right situation. There's no need to bash him with the stick. It is the stories that make Ranma out to be outright uncivilized that have blindsided him with the Stick of OOC, and the stories that portray him as an ignorant jock with no other skills, quick to the insults, always raring to fight over any other option, etc.
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Re: Making Ranma more civilized?

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:05 pm

Ranma's got some rather unique personality quirks for the type of character he is.

First and foremost, what most people mistake for his uncivilized manner is his Practical Nature.
Examine Ranma's history before the start of the manga/series. His father dragged him all over who the hell knows where to china and elsewhere for training. As such, Ranma's picked up a kind of practical field experience similar to trained soldiers. As a trained soldier, I recognize the traits. Niceties and finess don't interest him, cannot interest him, so long as he's got a practical issue to solve. Flash and dazzle do nothing, and mean nothing. It's no frills, down and dirty nitty gritty practical goodness. You want his attention, you better have something he can make use of.

This doesn't mean that Ranma doesn't have nice things about him. He's nice the same way a soldier is (or should be if they have any instilled values.) He's sporting, chivilrous, and macho.

Let's look at the incident when he met Kodachi Kuno and the shenanigans that followed that.

Ranma shows us his Chivilrous and sporting side immediately. Coming to assist people who were already 'defeated' by the Pscyhotic Kuno Girl, and even pointed out they were beaten directly to her. This very nature shows us that Ranma does care, and he's not some kind of bully.

Later, while Akane tries to learn the Gymnastics techniques, Ranma bluntly points out the futility of the action, noble as it is. Ranma was right of course, and Ranma being right really annoyed Akane. Still, he's being practical. Given the level of fighting he had to do against Kodachi during the fight, it's plainly obvious Akane would have gotten pummelled and humiliated. And she expected to be able to manage it in a week. Good luck. Once they managed to rope ranma into it, he took to the challenge full tilt.

Ranma's personality is thus, such that he's going to be brutally honest and practical. It's actually a real good friend to have. He's going to tell you the truth, and many times the truth hurts. He won't butter you up or sugar coat his thinking. If you stink at cooking (Akane), you stink. End of Story. Congradulating her on radioactive cookies would not be helping her improve. He considers it probably more insulting to tell you a bare faced lie.

Of course, on a certain level, this is actually pretty rude behavior in Japanese society. They're much more formal than western society. Here in Western Society, Ranma could easily get away with his attitude because we've learned to be thick skinned and blunt as a way of life.

There are points where he could use a little improving though. Tact is one of them. As they say: "Tact is the Art of making a point, without making an enemy." A course in that, and he'd be far easier to deal with since he'd understand how to word things so that he could tell the truth without having it backfire in his face. Another is understanding when it is better not to say anything at all. Another saying goes: "It's not knowing what to say, but when NOT to say it." Even if you mean well, sometimes nothing you say can save you. If Ranma also understood this, he'd know when NOT to say something that could end with his neck dislocated at an odd angle.

Many fanfic writers latch onto the rude and calous ranma, without really seeing the Practical Mentality that is dominant. He isn't rude because he's a mean bastard. In fact, he's not rude at all unless provoked. He's BLUNT and practical.
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Re: Making Ranma more civilized?

Postby Cheb » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:25 pm

Splendid!
I must save your post, it's rare that anyone makes such a deep observation.
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