S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

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S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby slickrcbd » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:11 am

It's been at least ten years since I saw the Cloverway dub of Sailor Moon S. Not since it aired on Cartoon Network.

I remember that Eudial drove a station wagon, and was thinking, what was its fate?
I know she died in a crash, but wouldn't the authorities try to investigate the crash?
If they had witness accounts that Eudial was a participant in the battle, wouldn't that be good grounds to investigate her and where she worked?

Of all the Sailor Moon baddies, She and Nephrite are the most likely ones that could be investigated by the authorities to track down what is going on.

Granted, they probably are not equipped to deal with what they find, heck the JSDF might have had a hard time, at least without causing massive collateral damage, but it just seemed odd they wouldn't look for the car wreck.

BTW, are there any fics that follow on this concept, with the Tokyo police investigating Eudial's station wagon and Eudial herself?
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:05 pm

Of all the Sailor Moon baddies, She and Nephrite are the most likely ones that could be investigated by the authorities to track down what is going on.

If the authorities would not investigate the takeover of a airport and a citywide threat by Jadite whom had fake police... they are not going to investigate a car.

You forget, authorities in Sailor Moon and Ranma are all but non-existent.

Besides, that works both ways, were it my city, I damn well would want the cops going after vigilantes... whom do not stick around after taking out bad guys...

I can think of a bunch of incidents that definitely would have been investigated... the cruise liner that sunk, the destruction of a school, the international incident that had to occur when that princess was attacked...
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Spica75 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:57 pm

You forget, authorities in Sailor Moon and Ranma are all but non-existent.


That we are shown...
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:38 pm

Spica75 wrote:That we are shown...

Well.. of course, that is sort of my whole point. Each series does have a very few very brief instances of cops, but those are more coincidences or for gaffs, like the time Ryoga got lost with a little old lady and eventually left her with a patrol officer.

If it is occurring off screen/pages, we cannot assume it is actually occurring at all in canon material.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:12 pm

I believe she drove off a cliff and into the sea, so I reckon that it wouldn't be investigated unless one of these things happened: one, evidence of driving off of the cliff, like damaged guard rails (I don't recall if that's the case or not); two, a witness of the accident; three, someone reports them missing. Only the first two would give a good chance of finding the car/Eudial. If there's no evidence or a witness, I wouldn't count on the authorities finding the car. Also, I don't think her associates are the type to report her as a missing person, and I'm not sure if she has friends or family with which to serve that function.

PCHeintz72 wrote:If the authorities would not investigate the takeover of a airport and a citywide threat by Jadite whom had fake police... they are not going to investigate a car.

PCHeintz72 wrote:If it is occurring off screen/pages, we cannot assume it is actually occurring at all in canon material.

Sounds like a contradiction.

I mean, aside from not knowing what the authorities did after the fact, we know that they sent more police officers in and/or around the airport. Jadeite put them all to sleep and replaced them. With Jadeite's influence even extending to the operation of the monorail, it's reasonable to assume that the authorities would not have acted until after the fact, since he's obviously gone through the effort to ensure the senshi's arrival and taking care of potential interferences. In all likelihood, even if there was someone expecting status reports, the fake police or Jadeite could have just said that everything was fine.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:31 pm

Crescent Pulsar S wrote:Sounds like a contradiction.

I mean, aside from not knowing what the authorities did after the fact, we know that they sent more police officers in and/or around the airport. Jadeite put them all to sleep and replaced them. With Jadeite's influence even extending to the operation of the monorail, it's reasonable to assume that the authorities would not have acted until after the fact, since he's obviously gone through the effort to ensure the senshi's arrival and taking care of potential interferences. In all likelihood, even if there was someone expecting status reports, the fake police or Jadeite could have just said that everything was fine.

Contradiction? Not really on my part, the issue is how anything in that episode was set up makes no sense whatsoever.

That whole situation was handled in a supremely stupid manner if one were really to think of it as a legitimate threat, and to think of it from the standpoint of police procedures available at the time.

The obviously thought it real, but they only sent police and evacuated the airport.

Realistically, that is incredibly dumb on a number of levels. Terrorist threats on that level are not mere police actions, I would have expected full JSDF involvement, and the entire area being watched and the cameras in the airport remotely being viewed and monitored not by airport security, but full combat squads..., They should have been storming into the area in waves at the first sign of all those planes moving and powering up in a deserted airport. I'd have expected helicopters in the air, and potentially fighters on scramble alert waiting for word from the nearby Yokota Air Base or another nearby military base... people monitoring the power usage of the trams, long distance snipers... the works.

Even in early 90's, so much more could have been done than it was.

a few high school girls should not have been able to get within a mile of that airport even if they were attempting to be sneaky. A moving tram car should have been instantly known.

And you cannot realistically expect some unknown to be able to properly respond to a superior in a good enough manner to be able to fake everything being ok. not that doing so should have even been remotely possible.

And also, after being so obviously toyed with, made fools of, and deceived, in real life I would have expected a *HUGE* increase in the amount of people looking into both parties that were supposed to be present, as they are obviously a extreme threat to pull off what they did. I would have expected entire task forces set up special to uncover whom these guys (scouts and dark kingdom) were.

EDIT: We see... no evidence of any of the above at all in canon material, and you cannot simply assume it.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:50 am

Nice try trying to cover yourself, but the issue wasn't about believability, but the authority's involvement at all. I could also add that it's illogical to rationalize that two different situations worthy of their involvement would inspire the same level of response.

Also, they didn't think that it was real, but a prank. (I mean, a "terrorist" telling anyone who can hear the exact time and location of a duel? And will only do something terrorist-like if his opponents don't arrive?) They only upped security just in case, because a threat had been made. Is that exactly what they would have done in real life, early nineties, Japan? Probably not. (Well, unless seeing giant images in the sky isn't considered something impossible. Of course, conversely, that impossibility could be reason enough to disbelieve that it could have happened.) But, well, that's fiction for you.

As for some of the other things that you mentioned, we can reasonably assume that they were taken care of by Jadeite. The cameras, for instance. Airplanes and trains, too. Hijacking and using human technology is not beyond their abilities. That train ride, for instance, required traveling past the Shinagawa ward to get to the Ota ward from Minato, so distance isn't really an issue, if all it requires is an electrical connection, or even something like radio. There's no telling just how far Jadeite can control/manage a situation that way, and if he could put everyone in and around the airport asleep, what's to stop him from adding to that number when more people approach? Either way you look at it, Jadeite seems to have the upper hand in keeping the authorities either unaware or away.

Of course, if I were in Jadeite's position, and I could notice (which Jadeite seems to do) the sailor senshi getting on that train, I would have blown it up in transit.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:12 am

Nice try trying to cover yourself, but the issue wasn't about believability, but the authority's involvement at all. I could also add that it's illogical to rationalize that two different situations worthy of their involvement would inspire the same level of response.

I'm not quite sure what the issue is you are getting at.

10 different members of this forum might well give 10 different answers to what a 1990's Japan could do for some of these incidents. I do not believe I am any more wrong or right than you.


Whether the government did more than was shown for any of the incidents or not really does not matter, we cannot know from canon material that they did so. Sure, we can speculate until doomsday that they did... but it cannot be considered canon.

This is why shows like sailor moon fall apart on scrutiny, as it makes governments out to be ignorant idiots.

Based on my belief in the earlier posts on what they would have done and how they would have felt at being for all intents ignored, I personally believe that the government would be getting more and more angry at both parties behind the scenes, and thus putting more and more effort into finding ways to uncover, kill, or capture them.

As for what Jedite could do. I'm merely saying *even if* he could control that car, and bring the senshi to him, I did not believe for a second humans could not know it was occurring, even if they could not stop him.

This was fairly early in the series, and probably the very first that would outright give them advance knowledge, but he basically opened the floodgates, so to speak.

Whether he was taken seriously or not is almost irrelevant from a believability standpoint. Because they *had* to believe what was going on after it.

Thus all the following incidents (cruise ship, the princess attack, etc), while not canon that it brought scrutiny, I cannot help but think that more and more people would not be working behind the scenes to have tried to end these confrontations.

Even if a plan to capture or kill cannot work, I am fully of the belief 90's tech could uncover senshi and track them down. Even transformed I'm still of the general opinion it is possible... while their disguise magic may fool human senses, can it fool computer pattern matching? Matching hair color/length/style to facial structure to height/body language, to heat signature. There is also for potential of fingerprint and early generation DNA pattern matching. All existed in 90's. Heck, they can even pull attendance records for a large number of incidents... and pattern match on that for potential suspects.

Don't really believe me in how a determined government can get when going after unwanted elements and pissing them off, look at how the French took care of the terrorists just in the last couple days on the news.

And really, both terrorists and vigilantes operate outside the law.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Spica75 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:35 am

PCHeintz72 wrote:
If it is occurring off screen/pages, we cannot assume it is actually occurring at all in canon material.


However, we also cannot assume that it ISN`T actually occurring. Doing either is an assumption with equal value.


Also in regards to what you THINK should be the response of authorities, i suggest you take a look at real world events where after the fact evaluations have shown the authorities to have acted beyond incompetently. This happens time and time again, even though those in charge try to ensure that it does not.

Also, about getting the JSDF involved, do remember that their constitution is very strict about anything that even remotely looks military. Formally they don´t even HAVE a military(they´re civillians with special authority and equipment). And just getting clearance to deploy the JSDF at all would be unlikely.

Don't really believe me in how a determined government can get when going after unwanted elements and pissing them off, look at how the French took care of the terrorists just in the last couple days on the news.


Yeah, but France is ALWAYS extremely severe in dealing with terrorists. Everyone knows there´s no running nor hiding if you make a mess there. Either you get caught, or eventually you get a bullet in the head courtesy of the DGSE.

Japan goes "by the book"(no triggerhappy!) and will look meek compared to USA, and USA is a horde of cute little puppies compared to how France operates.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:25 am

PCHeintz72 wrote:I'm not quite sure what the issue is you are getting at.

10 different members of this forum might well give 10 different answers to what a 1990's Japan could do for some of these incidents. I do not believe I am any more wrong or right than you.

Spica pretty much covered everything else I would have responded to, but I wanted to add that I never gave an answer to be right or wrong about. I only fleshed out what Jadeite was capable of, and noted exactly what both he and the authorities did. In fact, the only thing I said on the matter of the authority's actions being realistic was, "probably not, but that's fiction for you." I never offered any particulars in how they had done anything right or wrong.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:46 pm

However, we also cannot assume that it ISN`T actually occurring. Doing either is an assumption with equal value.

We most certainly *must* assume it *did not* occur at least not for the senshi... there is nothing stated it did, no seen showing such occurred. With no canon evidence to support it, it is mere fanon speculation.

Had a manhunt for the senshi occurred, I would think the girls would have discussed it, and we would have seen heightened security and a increased police presence at the schools. Perhaps them taken back into interview rooms. For sure none were snagged by the government.

None of that is evident.

We *do* know the senshi are talked about in public, at least if you follow the specials that were part of the original series... there is the one where Usagi is listening in on a group doing just that at some outdoor café she was at.

Now, this opens up the whole can of worms as to *why* such did not occur.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Cheb » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:03 pm

while their disguise magic may fool human senses, can it fool computer pattern matching?

YES.

Dark Kingdom takes human tech and rapes it.
Enchanted audio cassette broadcasted on radio as cheap means of massively extending the spell's AOE? Check.
TV broadcast enchanted so that anyone watching it falls under suggestion-like spell? Check.

In fact, I believe, the more advanced the computers are, the easier it is for the spells to fool them.

Remember, Silver Millennium was a magitek civilization using computers much more advanced than ours.

What is more sad, cops have zero magic resistance. I clearly remember instance of some officer trying to investigate some youma's activity but falling under the spell she was working on the crowd and joining the event in four seconds flat.

Now *what* would the authorities have to work with? Gaps in their memory they are likely to avoid talking about?
AFAIK, Japanese police has a very strong trend of hiding embarrassed events under the rug. It would require something *really massive* to breach through that trend.

Unless there's a solid proof it's a terrorist activity and not some weird shit with most witnesses losing their memory, embellishing and generally creating a hell of information noise? Naw. There is no *reason* even to believe it's the same case.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Cheb » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:13 pm

P.S. Why try to use RL examples at all? RL is boring and frustrating. That's why we have all these stories about superheroes and stuff.

Use any anime centered around Japanese police investigating weird shit: espers, doomsday cults, what have you. I don't know any such series but there should be some around. Make a crossover of that anime with SM.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:22 pm

Cheb wrote:P.S. Why try to use RL examples at all? RL is boring and frustrating. That's why we have all these stories about superheroes and stuff.

Use any anime centered around Japanese police investigating weird shit: espers, doomsday cults, what have you. I don't know any such series but there should be some around. Make a crossover of that anime with SM.

Phantom Quest Corp

I suppose Hyperpolice would count.
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Re: S question: What happened to Eudial's station wagon?

Postby Spica75 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:04 pm

We most certainly *must* assume it *did not* occur at least not for the senshi...


No, that is an assumption based on nothing.

Had a manhunt for the senshi occurred


Had the authorities been THAT stupid, they would have deserved having Beryl as their new overlord dictator.

and we would have seen heightened security and a increased police presence at the schools.


Why? There´s nothing saying that the girls go to school. That´s making assumptions without basis again.

#####
Dark Kingdom takes human tech and rapes it.


Severely.

P.S. Why try to use RL examples at all? RL is boring and frustrating. That's why we have all these stories about superheroes and stuff.


:D
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