What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tokyo?

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What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tokyo?

Postby SailorStar9 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:26 am

And I mean other than the whole ecological disaster in the anime.

What made Usagi think that she could just bring an age from five thousand years ago and make it fit?

Personally, I was always suspicious about Crystal Tokyo, especially ever since I saw the Inner Senshi guarding Neo-Queen Serenity in her coma, practically like statues. I got the impression that no matter what the happy ending was for Serenity and Endymion, the Senshi seemed to be getting the very short end of the stick. And the whole concept of going full circle and bringing up the Middle Ages again always seemed, IMHO, wrong.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Cheb » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:27 pm

Anime: don't go there. The plot holes are so big, you'll fall in to be never seen again.

Manga: It took at least five centuries, if not more, for most of the planet to *gradually* join CT. That's roughly as long as it took from the 16th century to now. I guess Neo-Serenity being the strongest protection against demons and supervillains had something to do with that. And there were lots of supervillains in the intervening time. I personally get the impression that nqS was titled a queen as the most badass person alive. In gratitude for her creating and upholding a safe haven of sorts. It is only natural for countries and nations to join that safe haven.

And the whole concept of going full circle and bringing up the Middle Ages again always seemed, IMHO, wrong.

History goes in an upward spiral, not in circles. We can't know if there'll be time when monarchy will turn out to be more progressive form of government than democracy, as everything has its time. Besides, it was already discussed that Usagi is as close to an ideal dictator as physically possible.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Spica75 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:12 pm

History goes in an upward spiral, not in circles. We can't know if there'll be time when monarchy will turn out to be more progressive form of government than democracy, as everything has its time.

And "more progressive" isn´t automatically the same as "preferable" either.


What made Usagi think that she could just bring an age from five thousand years ago and make it fit?

She didn´t...
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Knight of Ranko » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:13 pm

This issue keeps rearing its head over and over in a lot of forums, Fanfictions etc.


The simple answer?


It was a Show made for preteen girls, it was meant to be taken as presented, as a time where the protaganists were in a position of great esteem and privilige, Usagi and Mamorus relationship turns to a happy marriage, and the worlds filled with happiness and Tranquility.

Leaving that aside, I think it can be justified though.

Democracy will only lead to more disasters, a single strong central government will keep the specter of war away from the people of earth.

Its easy to say "He who would sacrifice a little bit of liberty for security, deserves neither and will lose both" but when its taken to its ultimate extreme... isnt laws prohibiting private ownership of H bombs a limitation albeit a slight one , on liberty?

Consider this, It takes Congress her in the US of A, Months or YEARS to negotiate out, the terms of a law, that under a monchary, could take 4 or 5 days at the most to get together, then get signed?

And trust me theirs times when thats a better idea.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Noy Telinú » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:14 am

And the reason many hate Crystal Tokyo is because there is no freedom.

You are being watched by an immortal woman who can blow you up and kicked out anyone who won't get purified. Sure, we know its not as it seems, but if you're living in it, doesn't it sound like 1984? Or the antichrist putting his number on you? Yeah...

Democracies have many, many problems, but are more stable than one ruler due to the one ruler is a hit and miss. Sometimes you get a great one, other times, you get Hitler.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:30 am

Noy Telinú wrote:And the reason many hate Crystal Tokyo is because there is no freedom.

You are being watched by an immortal woman who can blow you up and kicked out anyone who won't get purified.

That's completely fanon.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Noy Telinú » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:42 am

Then, what does happen, pray tell?
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:09 am

Little note about the whole Democracy Vs Tyranny(monarchy) thing. The founding fathers wrote down that there wasn't much difference between the two which is why they created a Constitutional Republic. Where the process would by design slow down government decisions to give the public the opportunity to get their voices heard on them before the decisions were made.

You want Usagi's Justification? The world has already been mostly destroyed she's made her kingdom with what survivors she's been able to protect. Its not that big because they sadly have limited resources with most of the world lost to the Great Freeze.

Save all the lives you can. That is her Justification.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Noy Telinú » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:23 am

Still don't trust her...
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:03 am

Noy Telinú wrote:Then, what does happen, pray tell?

Just look at Chibi-Usa. People had enough freedom and weren't supposedly mind-screwed by purification to the point where they couldn't mistreat her, the princess of the very queen that you suspect of being an evildoer. And why boot the unruly and bad people out when she can simply purify them into docility/submission/being good/being loyal? And if she's so bad, why give them a choice between being purified or not? Your reasoning simply doesn't make any sense.

I've seen quite a few fan-fics try to sell this nonsense. Usagi is depicted as some kind of evil ruler, and her mother gets the same treatment during the Silver Millennium often enough. And being purified is some kind of mind-screw, when in actuality it reverses said mind-screwing and/or unnatural influence to return someone to normal rather than impose its own brand of mind-screwing.

Anyway, there are no real specifics on how exactly they came to rule (except in the anime (as Spockie already mentioned), when there probably wasn't a single government that had survived anyway) or how they ruled, but there isn't anything that would suggest what you said before or what those fan-fiction stories have depicted. As for the manga, while we don't know the circumstances of Crystal Tokyo's birth, we do know that Endymion and Serenity were crowned when the latter was twenty-two, either in the year 2000 or 2001. But do you seriously think that Usagi is the kind of person to take over a nation by force and become no better than what she had been fighting against? If so, then you really don't know her character.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Noy Telinú » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:00 pm

Absolute monarchism just rubs people the wrong way then.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Knight of Ranko » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:20 pm

Noy Telinú wrote:Absolute monarchism just rubs people the wrong way then.


Id agree with that, Ive seen way too many Fics, that end with her Passing a decree limiting her own, and her Heirs, power, by creating some kind of Parliment, or some such BS.

Another major concern, Ive noticed, is the fact the senshi LEARNED of these events in teh future, and, appearently thought nothing of trying to prevent them.

Leads to deconstruction, on Par with the endor apocalypse or ... http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/i ... y_6855.jpg

But back to the point, the fact that the Senshi didnt try to PREVENT the freeze as far as we know, I think is taken in a very negative fashion, leading to a suggestion that they were essentialy waiting for it to happen so they can use it as an opportunity to seize power.


I think this , again, is on par with the tom and jerry pic I showed above.

A lot of deconstruction fics, paint the original goals of the blackmoon, which Saphire did describe as having nothing to do with what they'd turned into under Wiseman, to be fair, as having been to create a "Republic" Even I've played with that a time or two I admit.

Id like to argue, that Serenitys reign did Largely end war, and economic problems... ushering in Utopia for Earths inhabitants.


But problem is a lot of people have read and written more fanfiction then they've watched the show, so much so their distanced from the source MAterial.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Spica75 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:12 pm

Noy Telinú wrote:And the reason many hate Crystal Tokyo is because there is no freedom.


Complete fanon.

You are being watched by an immortal woman who can blow you up and kicked out anyone who won't get purified. Sure, we know its not as it seems, but if you're living in it, doesn't it sound like 1984? Or the antichrist putting his number on you? Yeah...

A woman who avoids harming people even to her own detriment...

This is just an assumption based on taking "power corrupts" to the extreme. A maxim i might add that i have never found to be a universal truth.

Democracies have many, many problems, but are more stable than one ruler due to the one ruler is a hit and miss.

Yes, but that does not make the one or the other automatically better.

Sometimes you get a great one, other times, you get Hitler.

A democratically elected leader that through mostly democratical actions took power.
Compare to the first Bernadotte monarch of Sweden, an ex-marshal from Napoleons army was offered the crown and ushered in an era of 2 centuries of peace as well as great domestic development.

Absolute monarchism just rubs people the wrong way then.

Nope. Abuse of power does. And that is regardless of how governing a nation or political entity works.
And if it´s one thing i do not expect from Usagi, intetional abuse of power is it. And if she would do something unintentionally, it´s extremely likely that it will be taken care of ASAP.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Spica75 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:16 pm

Another major concern, Ive noticed, is the fact the senshi LEARNED of these events in teh future, and, appearently thought nothing of trying to prevent them.

From what i´ve seen, the simple reason for that is that it´s the best outcome of some very sucky options.

But back to the point, the fact that the Senshi didnt try to PREVENT the freeze as far as we know, I think is taken in a very negative fashion, leading to a suggestion that they were essentialy waiting for it to happen so they can use it as an opportunity to seize power.

Something that is so out of character for them that i´ve yet to read any such, where the characters have a personality anywhere close to canon.

A lot of deconstruction fics, paint the original goals of the blackmoon, which Saphire did describe as having nothing to do with what they'd turned into under Wiseman, to be fair, as having been to create a "Republic"

Yeah, the poor, trampled "freedom fighters"... :roll:
I think i´ve read one fic that actually used this in a way that was at all believeable or good.
Mostly, it´s either silly or really BAD.
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Re: What justification does Usagi have to create Crystal Tok

Postby Noy Telinú » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:53 pm

So the whole thing is Everyone is Jesus in Purgertory?

I mean it's the optimistic shiny future for Usagi and co and I doubt that anyone on the writing or editing staff thought that people would question it to the extreme of dictatorship. Not to mention the time travel paradox, the weakness they showed compared to their past self, and how bad purification SOUNDS.

Or maybe it was thinking that the ditzy Usagi ruling over people woulnt go well with some readers, thinking that there was no way anyone would willingly want her to rule.

But there was still a point unanswered. WHY didn't they try to prevent it? Or talk about it?
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