Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wrong.

Discuss the Ranma series in this forum.

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:15 am

Pata Hikari wrote:But they're not "Musabetsu Kakuto Ryu" the fictional martial arts school that exists in Ranma 1/2.

If I learned and taught "Musabetsu Kakuto Ryu", and due to a trademark dispute with Happosai renamed my branch "Fred", would it still be the same? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Visit Big Washuu's Lab of Arcane Knowledge at http://washuu.net
Ellen Kuhfeld
User avatar
Sailor Starlight
Posts: 1783
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Cheb » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:25 am

Let's just admit that there is not enough canon for some serious detalizations (because comedy) and you have to resort to fanon -- or just invent your own fanon, which is much more fun and creative! :D

Also, instead of arguing which canon interpretation is true it's much more fun to keep wondering what plots could be raised from all the different interpretations. :roll:

Make fanfiction not war!
Proud owner of 1.5 kilograms of Germanium transistors
Cheb
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1394
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:43 am

Cheb wrote:Let's just admit that there is not enough canon for some serious detalizations (because comedy) and you have to resort to fanon -- or just invent your own fanon, which is much more fun and creative! :D

Also, instead of arguing which canon interpretation is true it's much more fun to keep wondering what plots could be raised from all the different interpretations. :roll:

Make fanfiction not war!

I did. This is the war it turned into. So I'm having fun of a different kind: trying to out-pedant a pedant. Little Bitch Academia, if you will. :wink:
Visit Big Washuu's Lab of Arcane Knowledge at http://washuu.net
Ellen Kuhfeld
User avatar
Sailor Starlight
Posts: 1783
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Pata Hikari » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:39 am

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:If I learned and taught "Musabetsu Kakuto Ryu", and due to a trademark dispute with Happosai renamed my branch "Fred", would it still be the same? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

You can't teach it because it doesn't exist.

Cheb wrote:Let's just admit that there is not enough canon for some serious detalizations (because comedy) and you have to resort to fanon -- or just invent your own fanon, which is much more fun and creative! :D

Also, instead of arguing which canon interpretation is true it's much more fun to keep wondering what plots could be raised from all the different interpretations. :roll:

Make fanfiction not war!


There is no "your own fanon" because Fanon by definition is not personal. Fanon is a collective idea created and accepted as "canon" by the fandom despite it not actually making an appearance in canon.

Like what I made this thread about! So many fanfics use a plot point of Ranma never training with Akane. So much that it's an assumed fact of the story that I can not think of a single fanfic that did not either use this or acknowledge it in some way. It's treated as fans as "canon", Fan+Canon= Fanon. Yet this event is ever said in canon, and in fact the opposite is said in canon. So it's fanon that contradicts canon.
Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:I did. This is the war it turned into. So I'm having fun of a different kind: trying to out-pedant a pedant. Little Bitch Academia, if you will. :wink:

Acknowledging facts about a story is not pedantry.

Knowing facts about a story because I've read it is not pedantry.
Image
Pata Hikari
Senshi Cadet
Posts: 127
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Cheb » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:16 am

There is no "your own fanon" because Fanon by definition is not personal.

You can definitely try. And see if it sticks.

I, for example, postulate that Risky Boots is a half-Rakshasi. We'll see... :P
Proud owner of 1.5 kilograms of Germanium transistors
Cheb
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1394
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:57 am

Pata Hikari wrote:You can't teach it because it doesn't exist.

If it doesn't exist, why are you so fussy about the nomenclature and details?
Visit Big Washuu's Lab of Arcane Knowledge at http://washuu.net
Ellen Kuhfeld
User avatar
Sailor Starlight
Posts: 1783
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Pata Hikari » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:If it doesn't exist, why are you so fussy about the nomenclature and details?

Because it's not literally anything! You're factually wrong about this!

It's not "details" it's that not everything under the sun is Ranma and Akane's fighting style.
Image
Pata Hikari
Senshi Cadet
Posts: 127
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:27 pm

impostor.png
Visit Big Washuu's Lab of Arcane Knowledge at http://washuu.net
Ellen Kuhfeld
User avatar
Sailor Starlight
Posts: 1783
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Spica75 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:24 pm

Pata Hikari wrote:No this is not the case. You're falling into fanon that all Akane does is Attack and Attack. Ranma and Akane's ways of fighting are general pretty similar, Ranma's just better at it than her. Frankly, Ranma 1/2 isn't a serious enough comic to actually put much thought into fighting styles beyond the absurd joke martial arts that pepper the series. Both Ranma and Akane, being "generic" fighters aren't going to do anything more wild then punches or kicks, frankly Akane shows more variety in her fighting style a lot of the time to her displays of skill with weaponry like swords and bows.

If Ranma's does gain any major divergences in fighting like Akane does comes from him learning techniques that aren't in Anything Goes



:roll:

No, their styles are not even remotely similar, and while Ranma is definitely better, much better, styles do NOT change because you get better at it. And learning from outside your baseline style still does not alter that baseline style. Even fusing multiple martial arts nearly always still show where its origins came from. And fusing styles is not something you do from incorporating techniques from elsewhere, you need two or more styles for that.

Pata Hikari wrote:But this is beside the point, the fact is that Ranma and Akane practice martial arts together in Ranma 1/2, contrary to what the vast majority of Ranma 1/2 fanfiction says.

There's literally no reason to assume they're separate.


:roll:

Now you're calling your fanon canon again. "no reason to assume" means the same as "reason to assume" here, because we haven't been shown enough to actually know. Both anime and manga shows them training separately and together, but "together" in this case meaning in the same place, as we do not see them train each other.
Spica75
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1975
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Spica75 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Cheb wrote:Let's just admit that there is not enough canon for some serious detalizations (because comedy) and you have to resort to fanon -- or just invent your own fanon, which is much more fun and creative! :D

Also, instead of arguing which canon interpretation is true it's much more fun to keep wondering what plots could be raised from all the different interpretations. :roll:

Make fanfiction not war!


Hear, hear!
Spica75
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1975
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Pata Hikari » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:09 am

Spica75 wrote:No, their styles are not even remotely similar, and while Ranma is definitely better, much better, styles do NOT change because you get better at it. And learning from outside your baseline style still does not alter that baseline style. Even fusing multiple martial arts nearly always still show where its origins came from. And fusing styles is not something you do from incorporating techniques from elsewhere, you need two or more styles for that.


We're not talking about a realstic martial arts series. Please tell me some real, drastic differences in Ranma and Akane's fighting styles that can't simply be explained by Ranma being faster and stronger then Akane.

Because Akane fights pretty much exactly like Ranma in the enchanted dogi arc, where her strength and speed are raised to be beyond his.

Spica75 wrote:Now you're calling your fanon canon again.


First off, again, there is no "your fanon"

FANON IS A COLLECTIVE ISSUE. IT IS NOT A PERSONAL THING. No one person has "their fanon" fanon exists as a common idea within fandom as the whole.

FANON MEANS A FAN THEORY OR FANFIC PLOT DEVICE THAT BECOMES SO COMMONLY USED IN FANFIC THAT PEOPLE MISTAKE IT FOR CANON.

"Ranma and Akane train together" is not a fan theory or fanfic plot device that becomes so commonly used in fanfic that people mistake it for canon. It's a fact of canon, the opposite is the fanon.

Spica75 wrote:because we haven't been shown enough to actually know. Both anime and manga shows them training separately and together, but "together" in this case meaning in the same place, as we do not see them train each other.

Did you actually read my post?

We literally see them train together.

Spica75 wrote:as we do not see them train each other.


Of course we don't see them train each other. They're both still students.

Spica75 wrote:Hear, hear!


Or how about we actually make fanfiction based off Ranma 1/2 instead of the "Fanon Ranma" crowd-sourced weird martial arts drama gestalt that was created in the 90s.
Image
Pata Hikari
Senshi Cadet
Posts: 127
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Té Rowan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:38 am

/me looks at OP image.

Well, I get a rather different scene from that image: They are close together, but they are training separately while sharing training space. Why separately? They are training in two different things (chops v punches) and not assisting each other.
Sei sera-sera tüst… E jag’ kaninka!
Té Rowan
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1137
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:14 am

Pata Hikari wrote:Or how about we actually make fanfiction based off Ranma 1/2 instead of the "Fanon Ranma" crowd-sourced weird martial arts drama gestalt that was created in the 90s.

But I like the crowd-sourced weird martial arts drama gestalt!
Visit Big Washuu's Lab of Arcane Knowledge at http://washuu.net
Ellen Kuhfeld
User avatar
Sailor Starlight
Posts: 1783
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Spica75 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Té Rowan wrote:/me looks at OP image.

Well, I get a rather different scene from that image: They are close together, but they are training separately while sharing training space. Why separately? They are training in two different things (chops v punches) and not assisting each other.


Exactly.
Spica75
User avatar
Moon Senshi
Posts: 1975
 

Re: Ranma trains with Akane - AKA: Another fanon trope is wr

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:52 pm

Oh, hey, I get to hop on the "train" late. Here's my two cents, since -- apparently -- I'm a drifting hobo now.

Ranma trains "with" Akane. Sure, in the loosest terms. I can understand why fan-fiction writers make the assumption that they usually don't train together, outside of special circumstances, because both their style focus and dedication are very different. If they're together, chances are it would just be coincidence, considering the time available to them both and where they can do it conveniently. (And I think Ranma's the only one who takes his normal training beyond the Tendo property, aside from certain not-specific-to-martial arts exercises, like jogging.)

I'd also argue that there's more evidence that there's a reason why there's a Saotome and Tendo qualifier (aka school) to "Anything Goes," rather than just calling the whole shebang "Anything Goes" and calling it a day. There are two prime reasons why calling them the exact same style will likely be an assumption: we don't see Soun do much of anything to definitively demonstrate the differences and/or similarities, and Akane is clearly not as dedicated enough to be nearly as advanced as Ranma, so you can't make a fair comparison on that front. Some things that we know for sure (if my memory serves me right), though: Ranma is never seen breaking bricks in the same manner as Akane, Akane's never shown to meditate like Ranma does every now and again, and Ranma once (during the rhythmic gymnastic story) said that the Saotome school specialized in mid-air combat. Also, Genma developed two of his own personal styles, rather than for the benefit of Anything Goes as a whole. All that's not irrefutable proof by any means, but it tips the scales toward the likelihood of the schools being different, even if not fundamentally.

Now, as far as the enchanted dogi is concerned, Pata: the dogi was both capable of fighting and strong enough to defeat Ranma (as well as Soun and Genma simultaneously) when not worn, even before being worn the first time, so how do you know it was purely Akane's skill that allowed her to match/beat Ranma, nevermind the handicap that he was under (because he didn't want to hurt her)? Unless you can clear that up, you'll be making an assumption. You'll also have to detail how she fights exactly like Ranma does, as opposed to doing the generic stuff that we've seen many characters do. Although my memory's not perfect, there were two grappling moves in the dogi story alone that I don't recall Ranma ever doing. (I'm sure he could do them if he wanted to, but that's an entirely different argument.) If that turns out to be true, it stands to reason that it suggests that her style might be different, if we assume it was Akane and not the dogi doing it.

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:
impostor.png

And it takes a lifetime to know thyself. *Nods sagely*
Crescent Pulsar S
User avatar
Cosmic Power Senshi
Posts: 6406
 

PreviousNext

Return to Specific Series: Ranma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users