Evil Ranma and Ryoga

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Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby toushin » Sun May 24, 2015 11:56 am

In a forum one person wrote that an Evil Ryoga would be Tetsuya from Akira while Ranma would be Vegeta. That didn’t quite sit well with me. Ranma would never purposefully allow someone he is fighting to get stronger or a more entertaining fight and Ryoga doesn’t seem like the inferiority superiority type.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby Pata Hikari » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:45 pm

Ranma would totally have the ego to let a guy get a powerup right in front of him because he'd be able to still win as far as he's concerned.

The universe would then punish Ranma for his hubris but hey.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby Spica75 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:35 am

Pata Hikari wrote:Ranma would totally have the ego to let a guy get a powerup right in front of him because he'd be able to still win as far as he's concerned.

The universe would then punish Ranma for his hubris but hey.


:mrgreen:

Probably true, lol.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby PCHeintz72 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:53 am

I disagree at least in part. We have at least three incidents that would probably prove otherwise... the tattoo incident with Ryoga, the Super Soba and outfit incidents with Akane.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby Pata Hikari » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:09 am

Well, those three incidents aren't what I described.

I can believe Ranma would let someone get a power up in front of him, confidant that he could handle the opponent anyways. (Which, natrually, he wouldn't)

While those three arcs are had different circumstances. Ryoga wanted Ranma to remove the Mark of the Gods, because it looked so stupid. Ranma never really made a judgement on Ryoga getting the power up or not. While the Super Soba and Battle Dogi were Akane getting the power ups, and then Ranma getting jealous afterwords for not getting them, and working to try and take them away from her.

He was never in a position to do anything about them and his relationships with Ryoga and Akane give different context to them anyways.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby toushin » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:49 pm

Antimatterenergy description of Ranma’ arrogance is the perfect argument against an evil Ranma being Vegeta

http://ranmarelated.blogspot.com/2009/10/bragging.html

Ranma’s arrogance is mainly a combination of his casual use of super human abilities, his belief that he can win and refusal to give up, and use of trash talk. But thinking that he would actually stand there and let someone bring an unknown to a fight is to far fetched. If anything it goes completely against his character. His fighting style revolves around making new tactics, copying techniques, developing counters, and discovering a person's weakness. He’s even flat out stated that using a technique against him multiple times is pointless. He’s also incredibly manipulative so someone introducing a new unknown element to a fight that he is already winning is not something he would do. He is arrogant enough to fight a person on their terms as seen with the numerous martial arts and crafts matches as well as to rush in when the opponent already has an unknown element as seen when he rushed Herb fro throwing Akane or when Ryoga first learned the Shi Shi Hokodan

Ranma is also secretive and suspicious of people's actions so intentionally letting his opponent get the upper hand is highly unlikely. Keep in mind that yes Ranma enjoys fighting but the enjoyment is from pitting his skill against someone else. Vegeta but purposefully allowing someone he is fighting to get stronger is to make the fight more entertaining. It is also a product of his Saiyan brawler mentality as Goku, Gohon and Gotenks have all done the same thing. Though that admittedly was by down playing their strength. Ranma does have the ego to do something like that, under estimating his opponent and not going full out, but handing the victory over to them is not something he would do.

I think an evil Ranma would be more like Light Yagami. Read Age of War Horse and I’ll Met by Starlight for the perfect reasons why. In the first one the knowledge of every martial arts style and technique is forcibly inserted into Ranma’s mind breaking it and making him see himself as nothing more than a weapon. I wont go into spoilers but Ranma meticulously plans every detail even his loses are to further advance his goals its only after he knows victory is at hand that he stops looking at all those small details allowing the heroes to get the upper hand. And even then its more a case of he’s focused more on destroying his opponent then just beating them causes his ultimate demise. That’s why I compare evil Ranma more to light then Vegeta deceit and manipulation pretty much define all his relationships he repeatedly takes stock of his circumstances and options, and planning his next move. However he has overwhelming pride in himself and once that goal is achieved he gets tunnel vision and starts making mistakes.

The ranma from IMBS is similar even though he isn’t so overwhelmingly powerful. He’s basically what you would expect Ranma to be like when you hear about his life. He’s crazy and its obvious crazy he’s still incredibly manipulative yet like with the above his ultimate demise comes from over looking a detail.

As for Ryoga I think an evil Ryoga would be Happosai.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby Pata Hikari » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:52 pm

toushin wrote:Ranma’s arrogance is mainly a combination of his casual use of super human abilities,


In the Ranma doesn't have "superhuman" abilities in the context of the Ranma universe. Every high school in Japan seems to have a couple "superhuman" people. Ranma is, in his own universe, simply a very talented athlete.

Characters like Herb and Saffron, who are explictly said to be superhuman (or at least not fully human), are shown to be well beyond Ranma in strength even when he manages to eke out a win against them.

toushin wrote: But thinking that he would actually stand there and let someone bring an unknown to a fight is to far fetched.


It would be completely in his character. The person bringing in the "unknown" would just have to play to his ego. Like how Cologne pretended to be on the ropes against Ranma until he agreed to marry Shampoo if she won, at which point she began dominating him.

toushin wrote:
I think an evil Ranma would be more like Light Yagami.


An "Evil Ranma" would basically be a slightly more malignant Genma.

Ranma doesn't really have that much thought about his future. He and Genma are both very much live in the moment people. Make Ranma evil and most of the time he wouldn't actually act that differently than canon. Because why bother? Living a good life right now. But then moments where Ranma's conscience came in after taking things too far wouldn't exist, and Ranma wouldn't try and help people he sees in front of him with problems either.
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Re: Evil Ranma and Ryoga

Postby toushin » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:51 pm

I just don’t agree that Vegeta is a great representation of an evil version of ranma. if we were going by fanon or at the very least the anime then yeah, but I’m more partial to the manga and that’s what I’m going by. We’ve been focusing on Vegeta’s habit of letting his opponent power up to their strongest form, but that is more of a saiyan trait then something solely vegeta related as both gohan and goku have done it as well. Ranma’s arrogance is more in line with gohan’s as piccolo stated in super his great power always goes to his head and he gets drunk on power and becomes arrogant and overconfident, leading to him always being defeated. Unlike vegeta or goku who just let them get stronger once gohan is assured of his victory he lets his guard down allowing his opponent to get the upper hand.

Claymade has given us an excellent example of an evil version of Ranma in Tanizaki Kazuo. I never watched gargoyles all that much, David Xanatos does make a lot of sense.
Lets go back to the examples from Age of warhorse and ill met by starlight.

Touma sees himself as a weapon to that end he forced the world into a never ending war. Casually manipulating events like a game the only time you ever see him angry is when his plans are derailed in the end the only reason he was defeat was because he didn’t take his opponent seriously until it was too late.

While IMBS Ranma is more clearly sociopathic yet he still leans more in manipulation it’s just that unlike touma and Tanizaki when backed into a corner he fights all out, unhampered by concern or sense of style.

As for why I said that an evil version of ryoga would be Happosai I don’t mean he would suddenly become a pervert and still panties. Here’s a quote that perfectly describes happosai.

There is a man whom I know who is a determined liar, who has used deceit and deception as a tool to avoid the truth at every point of his long and colorful existence. The truth about him is that he cannot face the truth about himself without experiencing a severe loss in self-confidence and respect. He fears the truth and attempts to smother it under layers of self-delusion, acting as an impulsive and thoughtless being who does what he likes and seeks never to face the consequences of his actions.

Now let’s look at the underlining cause of ryoga and ranma’s rivalry. Both Ranma and Ryoga are a lot alike, actually the deciding factor between them is probably genma. He hauled Ranma all over the country all of his childhood (causing Ranma to forget he even had a mother), subjected him to harsh martial arts training, is known to have stolen food from Ranma on several occasions, seems incapable of speaking to Ranma without insulting him. Ranma grew up with confrontation while ryoga was alone. ranma alludes a confidence that Ryoga doesn’t have. The fact that ranma went out of his way to help ryoga didn’t help. Intentional or not ranma makes ryoga feel small which is why he challenged him to a fight and why he chased him all the way to china.

Ryoga isn’t a bad person, but that resentment and lack of confidence repeatedly causes him to do questionable things. It’s easy to make Ryoga the antagonist but he’s not evil. That’s why I don’t agree with the yeah ryoga can be driven by envy and both have an inferiority complex tetsuo had a number of other issues that led to his outcome. Ryoga wouldn’t become mad with power for him to go evil it would have to be a mistake he couldn’t return from. This is why ryoga makes a great antagonist but a bad villain which is why you can easily tell a bash fic from a regular one. He slips a lot but he knows right from wrong. The Herb arc, the yoiko hibiki, ect. Star of war is great of him being the antagonist as many fics use something similar Mousse convinces him and Kuno to pull a gosunkugi and use magic to send ranma away and in a moment of passion he agrees. What is unforgivable but I don’t consider him and kuno villains (mousse is another story) and think neither does the story itself. Spoiler his reaction upon being confronted years later with what he did shows he hadn’t become evil.

A saiyains tail is an example of him going evil I wont say it’s a great example because ryoga kind of when to far to fast but that is what would happen he makes a mistake he can’t come back from and goes with it.

You want a perfect example of an evil ryoga read Reflections Lost on a Dark Road. This is the reason why I said he would be like happosai. Because of the retcons done by the writer to make his charecters more edgy the ryoga in this fic is deplorable he repeatedly does unspeakable disgusting act then rewrites reality in his head so that he is the victim. And he’s only able to get away with it because he’s surrounded himself with people who constantly cater to him. so basically an evil version of ryoga is a bash fic version if it was taken seriously.
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