Ki in Ranma 1/2

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Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Zwzn » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:12 am

ISBN 1-56931-649-X
Volume 18
Page:18 wrote:Ranma: It's like I was hammered by a ball of "Ki"... of mental energy!
Page: 31 wrote:Ranma:So... His "Ki" his life-force, is more powerful then before...
Page: 44 wrote:Ranma: Last night... and right now... Both times I managed to do the ShiShi Hokodan... I was feeling down because I didn't want to lose... You could say I was "heavy-hearted"... when I created... ... The "heavy Ki"... Th-Then the ShiShi Hokodan... ... uses the depressive power of a "heavy heart" to project a heavy "Ki"!!

Ryoga:H-He's right! ERRGH He's figured out about 80% of it...
Pages: 52 and 53 wrote:Scroll: Anyone can do the Shishi Hokodan! First think about something that will make your heart heavy. See? It's easy
Pages: 61 and 62 wrote:Ranma fires /ki blast, and then it suddenly come right back at him.
Nabiki: What happened?
Genma: His heart wavered!
Ranma: I get it! Iget it! It's all a matter of how I feel! If I find and emotion that comes naturally for me I can use the same concept as the Shishi Hokodan to come up with a new technique!
Page: 63 wrote:Ranma: WAHAHAHAHA! I AM A GENIUS!
Genma: Hmm... His "Ki" has suddenly grown ...

Nabiki: Yeah, but it feels really light...
Page: 70 wrote:Mean-while, Ranma explores his emotions
Ranma: Short temper blasts!
Ki Blast: POW POW POW
Page: 94 and 95 wrote:Ranma:Feh, just as I thought... Right after Ryoga launched his heavy Ki power... He was really drained... Therefore he was emotionally hollow!
Some kid watching: That's why the heavy Ki was able to pass right through him!
Page:97 wrote:Cologne: What's son-in-law thinking!? The Shishi hokodan becomes more powerful the more depressed the user becomes!

1) Ki is described as both psychic energy and life energy. That would make Ranma and the other super-human martial artists psychics or magic users in crossovers.

2) Being a psychic and life energy sounds very similar to how chakra is described in Naruto.

3) Ki behaves differently depending on what emotion the person is feeling.

4) Ranma has developed a number of Ki blasts, but only seems to use one version.

5) Happy Ki is light and fluffy, and sad Ki is dense and heavy.

Am I off the mark on anything?

Did I miss anything?
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Dumbledork » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:42 am

I doubt Rumiko Takahashi did any research on the subject.
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby LawOhki » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:02 am

Zwzn wrote:1) Ki is described as both psychic energy and life energy. That would make Ranma and the other super-human martial artists psychics or magic users in crossovers.

2) Being a psychic and life energy sounds very similar to how chakra is described in Naruto.

These two are wrong. It's described as life energy based on the persons emotion as you noted in point 3. Not a separate psychic energy or a creative force like chakra in naruto.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Cheb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:08 am

Do not forget the tons of puns that got lost in translation.

"Ki" is a legitimate part of many words describing emotions. So with emotion-bases ki techniques it's more like a straight-faced comedy on Takahashi's part, a sort of parody of the genre. Because, you see, such words as "depression" or "confidence" have "ki" as their part. And so on.

Things get even more muddy with descriptions of how techniques work. As the same "ki" (with the same kanji) also means "air". Just think of it.All these hot and cold streams... Are they a mystical energy or just plain air? Japanese language doesn't make distinction. That's one fine mess. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Noy Telinú » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:21 pm

Not to mention dragon ball ing it up. So many ways this can go.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Zwzn » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:33 am

LawOhki wrote: These two are wrong. It's described as life energy based on the persons emotion as you noted in point


The first quote(page 18) describes Ki as mental energy. Ranma has just been hit with with a blast that sent him flying. We can conclude that mental energy is not simple emotion because emotions have no physical aspect

The second quote(page 31) only describes Ki as life energy, but this is the only thing connecting "Ki" to life energy in those quotes.

The later quotes(pages 44, 52/53, 61/62, 70, 97) all show Ki's behavior and output is directly connected to the person's mental state rather then life/health. You also see this at the end of the Herb arc when Herb loses his temper, and his Ki rages out of control, but he has been fighting Ranma.

The quote from page 94/95 shows Ryoga drained or empty of Ki, and yet very much alive. If "Ki" in Ranma 1/2 was pure or mostly "life energy" then Ryoga should be dead or in very poor health.

A person's health or life energy won't fluctuate

LawOhki wrote: 3. Not a separate psychic energy or a creative force like chakra in naruto.
Chakra in Naruto is described as a mix of "mental" and "physical" energy.

Ki in Ranma 1/2 is described by Ranma as both "mental" and "life" energy at different times.

Ki in Ranma 1/2 and Chakra in Naruto are used to do the same things.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Zwzn » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:14 am

Cheb wrote:Do not forget the tons of puns that got lost in translation.

"Ki" is a legitimate part of many words describing emotions. So with emotion-bases ki techniques it's more like a straight-faced comedy on Takahashi's part, a sort of parody of the genre. Because, you see, such words as "depression" or "confidence" have "ki" as their part. And so on.

Things get even more muddy with descriptions of how techniques work. As the same "ki" (with the same kanji) also means "air". Just think of it.All these hot and cold streams... Are they a mystical energy or just plain air? Japanese language doesn't make distinction. That's one fine mess. :mrgreen:
I'm not sure if I should be insulted that you assumed I wasn't aware of the puns that don't translate :?:

I'm also not sure what your point is? Ranma encountered air blasts way back in Tatewaki's intro, and that means Ki blasts have to be something different from air and water blasts. On top of that Ki is the source of all the superpowers the Ranma 1/2 cast have. Air can't let someone become intangible.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby LawOhki » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:52 am

Zwzn wrote:The first quote(page 18) describes Ki as mental energy. Ranma has just been hit with with a blast that sent him flying. We can conclude that mental energy is not simple emotion because emotions have no physical aspect

No we can conclude that ki is emotion given a physical aspect that requires a certain amount of training that ANYONE can do. The SSH works as a perfect example of it. Just get depressed enough and anyone can do it.

The later quotes(pages 44, 52/53, 61/62, 70, 97) all show Ki's behavior and output is directly connected to the person's mental state rather then life/health.

Yea because a whether or not a person is alive or dead has no affect on their mental state. /sarcasm

The quote from page 94/95 shows Ryoga drained or empty of Ki, and yet very much alive. If "Ki" in Ranma 1/2 was pure or mostly "life energy" then Ryoga should be dead or in very poor health.

A person's health or life energy won't fluctuate

No they would be constantly in flux, weak health, weak will equals weak ki. In Ryogas case he's using the emotions associated with his own weakness and depression to power his ki so beating him down makes that stronger. All just his mental state.

Ki in Ranma 1/2 and Chakra in Naruto are used to do the same things.

No they are not. Chakra in Naruto is effectively magic to do whatever the hell they want. None of the arcs that even use ki imply it to be anything close to that.

Zwzn wrote:On top of that Ki is the source of all the superpowers the Ranma 1/2 cast have. Air can't let someone become intangible.

Good luck finding a place that says any of their super powers are the result of ki and not training.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Dumbledork » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:27 am

Does it even matter? Just use whatever you want.
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Konsaki » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:37 am

Dumbledork wrote:Does it even matter? Just use whatever you want.
Ah, the Takahashi option. :P
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Dumbledork » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:41 am

Pretty much. I doubt that she put that much thought into the issue.
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Noy Telinú » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Yeah, Ruminko does that. She DID follow the law of thermal dynamics though with tornados and such, but things follow the logic of if it's funny, it works.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Zwzn » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:01 pm

Dumbledork wrote: Does it even matter? Just use whatever you want.
It's a hobby. I take a fictional setting, and then try to figure out how stuff works in universe.

Most abilities the characters display in Ranma 1/2 are based on real things as well as folklore/myths/legends.
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby Zwzn » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:10 pm

LawOhki wrote: No we can conclude that ki is emotion given a physical aspect that requires a certain amount of training that ANYONE can do. The SSH works as a perfect example of it. Just get depressed enough and anyone can do it.
While it is stated anyone can fire Ki blasts, it isn't a matter of simply feeling an emotion strongly enough. You will find Ki/Qi manipulation and Psionics/Psi have a great many similarities that it seems to come down to "A Rose by any other name" type situation.


LawOhki wrote: Yea because a whether or not a person is alive or dead has no affect on their mental state. /sarcasm
You said Ki was life energy. I pointed out a major hole in your theory. Miss Hinako actually planned to kill Shampoo, Kodachi, and Ukyo by sucking the life out of them.


LawOhki wrote: No they would be constantly in flux, weak health, weak will equals weak ki. In Ryogas case he's using the emotions associated with his own weakness and depression to power his ki so beating him down makes that stronger. All just his mental state.
You're assuming Ki is life anything. Haven't we seen things have Ki or something similar without being alive in Ranma 1/2?


LawOhki wrote: No they are not. Chakra in Naruto is effectively magic to do whatever the hell they want. None of the arcs that even use ki imply it to be anything close to that.
So is Ki in Ranma 1/2 just like every other mystical martial arts series. They all draw from the same legends and folklore. I can't think of anything that is done in Naruto that does not have an analog in Ranma 1/2. Good luck proving this claim. By your logic, if we call a rose a daisy then the rose is no longer a rose.

You should notice the similarities between chakra paths and Ki follows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_(Chinese_medicine)
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_pathway_system
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tenketsu

On top of that the author of Naruto purposely misused the word chakra.

LawOhki wrote: Good luck finding a place that says any of their super powers are the result of ki and not training.
I think you need to rephrase this. You train to use Ki, and you train to strengthen your Ki.

1) Ranma 1/2 martial arts is based on real world beliefs about Ki. These theories are taught as part of real world martial arts training. Like all mystical martial arts series Ranma 1/2 takes thing to extremes that are likely not realistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi#Martial_arts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neijing

2) There is an entire story line about Ranma not becoming weak do to his Ki being attacked.
http://ranma.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legenda ... on_of_Evil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxibustion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditiona ... e_medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi#Acupunc ... oxibustion
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Re: Ki in Ranma 1/2

Postby LawOhki » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:16 am

Zwzn wrote:While it is stated anyone can fire Ki blasts, it isn't a matter of simply feeling an emotion strongly enough. You will find Ki/Qi manipulation and Psionics/Psi have a great many similarities that it seems to come down to "A Rose by any other name" type situation.

Similarities with other stories or genres have no bearing that in Ranma nearly anyone can fire off ki blasts and they do not give out psychic powers.


You said Ki was life energy. I pointed out a major hole in your theory. Miss Hinako actually planned to kill Shampoo, Kodachi, and Ukyo by sucking the life out of them.

/facepalm


You're assuming Ki is life anything. Haven't we seen things have Ki or something similar without being alive in Ranma 1/2?

Well you're doing a great job of not pointing these things out.

So is Ki in Ranma 1/2 just like every other mystical martial arts series. They all draw from the same legends and folklore. I can't think of anything that is done in Naruto that does not have an analog in Ranma 1/2. Good luck proving this claim. By your logic, if we call a rose a daisy then the rose is no longer a rose.

You should notice the similarities between chakra paths and Ki follows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_(Chinese_medicine)
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_pathway_system
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tenketsu

On top of that the author of Naruto purposely misused the word chakra.

WTF does Naruto have to do with Ranma? This is your problem, you're confusing other stories or tropes and shoving them into Ranma because they are vaguely similar, even though nothing within Ranma canon supports it.

I think you need to rephrase this. You train to use Ki, and you train to strengthen your Ki.

1) Ranma 1/2 martial arts is based on real world beliefs about Ki. These theories are taught as part of real world martial arts training. Like all mystical martial arts series Ranma 1/2 takes thing to extremes that are likely not realistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi#Martial_arts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neijing

You still haven't given one instance where a character states or implies that they strengthen themselves by strengthening their ki. Ryoga during the breaking point doesn't get tougher because he trains his ki, he gets tougher cause he's used to being beaten to a pulp.


Than that must be why Ranma trains to use a ki tornado to beat Happosai. Yea that was Happosai attacking his ki. :roll:
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