Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

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Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Vahn » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:26 pm

Had an interesting little debate via pm with someone that is pro-akane. His impression is that Akane is a better fighter than most of the women in Ranma 1/2 maybe even Shampoo or at least able to hold her own against Shampoo. Example of this is Akane actually deflecting Kiima attack toward the end of the manga run where as shampoo has problem with it Kiima even after going all out . Another is the the Tendo Sister where she owns Kurumi.

Thoughts?
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby LawOhki » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:09 pm

Vahn wrote:Had an interesting little debate via pm with someone that is pro-akane. His impression is that Akane is a better fighter than most of the women in Ranma 1/2 maybe even Shampoo or at least able to hold her own against Shampoo. Example of this is Akane actually deflecting Kiima attack toward the end of the manga run where as shampoo has problem with it Kiima even after going all out . Another is the the Tendo Sister where she owns Kurumi.

Thoughts?

They are wrong in what they are saying and by mixing canons.

Kiima was purposely leading Akane to drown herself and was all a ruse. While Shampoo had a legit fight with her later on that ended with neither the victor. Shampoo repeatedly treats Akane like a joke whenever they fight and it's only plot armor that comes up with some way for Akane to get out of the situation. (LIke the super soba arc) Or remember the Dojo Destroyer, both Ranma/Shampoo are happily using him for games while Akane was just about to lose easily to him.

As for the Kurumi thing, who cares it's anime only ova garbage.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Spica75 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:14 pm

I think at the very least, Akane is the most commonly put down and ridiculed as "useless" or inept, far far beyond what is even close to realistic.

In a fic of my own, i make her one of those people who fight well as long as they don´t try to think about it. Making Akane´s skill drop severely whenever she has time to try to fight consciously, like when she´s fighting a single opponent, while taking care of mobs doesn´t leave time to think and she basically plows straight through most unexceptional opposition.


Comparing her to Shampoo or Ukyo, the problem tends to be that i´m not sure she ever fights them either seriously or without having lost her temper, because that´s what most commonly drops her skill(and that is often even more true against males). She repeatedly seem to fight better when she has to force herself into it.

Similarly, it´s very common to be condescending towards her and state that "Tatewaki/Ranma etc OBVIOUSLY never fights her for real" and so on.

I think Shampoo and Ukyo are better fighters than Akane in general, but i don´t think the difference is necessarily as huge as is often assumed.
OTOH, she isn´t nearly as devoted to martial arts, and Soun clearly has not trained her properly/completely before letting her go on on her own, so she probably has some rather large holes in her skills as well, allowing even less skilled opposition to take her down, IF they´re good enough to spot her deficiencies.


His impression is that Akane is a better fighter than most of the women in Ranma 1/2 maybe even Shampoo or at least able to hold her own against Shampoo.


While i think that is likely exaggerating, i wont discount it as impossible or even unrealistic. I think it is extremely rare to see her truly fight at her best, especially against highend opponents.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:26 pm

Vahn wrote:Had an interesting little debate via pm with someone that is pro-akane. His impression is that Akane is a better fighter than most of the women in Ranma 1/2 maybe even Shampoo or at least able to hold her own against Shampoo. Example of this is Akane actually deflecting Kiima attack toward the end of the manga run where as shampoo has problem with it Kiima even after going all out . Another is the the Tendo Sister where she owns Kurumi.

Thoughts?

Those are very poor examples; not applicable at all for the argument being made, in fact.

The only time I remember Kima and Akane actually in a confrontation was when she was at Jusenkyo. I don't recall her deflecting anything there. All she did was hit a few crows/ravens. We can't even say that she dodged Kima's attack because the whole point was not to injure or kill her, but to make her fall into a spring so Kima could disguise herself as Akane, which was accomplished during the "attack."

As for Shampoo? She didn't even have a direct confrontation with Kima until near the very end; it wasn't until Ranma was fighting the newly-hatched Saffron that they fought, and she was doing well enough to take the offensive, but the fight ended prematurely. If you're referring to getting caught in an egg, that was a surprise attack from behind by one of Kima's lackeys; Akane never had to deal with it.

And Kurumi was out of her league. The only victory she can claim is as a team with Ranma, and that's only after being defeated.

Now, in general, I believe it's the opposite. I think Akane can handle Kodachi, but that's more based on luck, depending on what kind of underhanded tactics Kodachi employs. Ukyo is more resourceful and has performed physical feats that Akane hasn't been shown to match, so I would expect Ukyo to win.

Shampoo? It has been definitively proven that Akane is completely outmatched. We know Shampoo's stronger and faster, period, has a wider range of techniques at her disposal, and Akane has been unable to defend herself against Shampoo on at least two occasions (with Shampoo getting behind her while evading a punch and making her forget Ranma on one occasion, and sneaking up on her and using mind control in an attempt to get the water proof soap on another), whereas I can't think of an occasion where Akane has bested Shampoo under normal circumstances (as in, sans super soba or the like). And if that's not good enough to prove it, during the super soba story, Ranma and Akane have this exchange:

Ranma: "Why get all upset about it now? You've always lost to Shampoo."

Akane: "That's why I'm upset!"
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Blackcat101 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:50 pm

Akane is good at Kendo, but hates it due to Kuno. Is possible the reason Kuno started to go after Akane is because he saw her winning a Kendo tournament, after months of Kuno bugging Akane, she stopped doing Kendo, but Kuno insisted and got the stupid idea of the challenges.Also, Akane is good... for outside Nerima, in Nerima she is under Kuno in skill, but seems stronger physically. Is just that Shampoo, Kodachi and Ukyo outclass her. Akane seems to be quite good when using samurai stuff, but she rarely does, again I think is because of Kuno. Since Kuno has a love for Samurai and swords, Akane is repressing herself because of her hate of him. She is also good with bow and arrows, again something a samurai is supposed to do. So what's crippling Akane is "Kuno-sempai" without that idiot Akane would actually use more the skills she is good at, like sword and arrows, instead of going by unarmed combat, thats her weak point in martial arts besides defence.

Is funny that no fanfic I have ever found explores how things would be if Akane, tired of Kuno advances, simply switched schools before things got too far.

Just think about it, Akane and Kodachi going to the same school... and bonding about how much of an idiot Tatewaki is.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Crescent Pulsar S » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:09 pm

...Akane does not have that problem. She uses a shinai often enough, and even a bokken against Kuno once (during the martial arts cheerleading story).
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Blackcat101 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:29 pm

Crescent Pulsar S wrote:...Akane does not have that problem. She uses a shinai often enough, and even a bokken against Kuno once (during the martial arts cheerleading story).


But Kuno is probably the reason she is not in the kendo club, also notice how Akane doesn't use shinai or bokken as part of her main style.

And now I am thinking about the possibilities of Akane going to an all girls school. And Ranma bing forced to go to the same school than her anyway.

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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Dumbledork » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:35 pm

Is funny that no fanfic I have ever found explores how things would be if Akane, tired of Kuno advances, simply switched schools before things got too far.

Just think about it, Akane and Kodachi going to the same school... and bonding about how much of an idiot Tatewaki is.


There are several fics where Akane switches schools because of Kuno and there are one or two where she goes to Kodachis's school (with Ranma-chan)
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Blackcat101 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:15 pm

Dumbledork wrote:
There are several fics where Akane switches schools because of Kuno and there are one or two where she goes to Kodachis's school (with Ranma-chan)


Got links?
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:16 pm

Eh... I've always taken the stance whether manga or anime Akane is good, but not compared to a good number of the comparatively super powered martial artists that come through Nerima. And thus where her problems lay.

Also, depending on what you are basing it on, you could take the stance that overall, Kodachi is actually better than Akane in skills, and Akane is better in raw strength. And no, I do not mean Kodachi better merely as a Rhythmic Gymnastics martial artist.

There are a lot of reasons for that stance on my part, not merely opinion, which I do not feel like repeating the whole argument again, but a lot of it boils to training methodology and mindset.

I get annoyed when a fan fiction story takes the stance of elevating Akane or the Tendos only, and no realistic backstory is given to it nor why it doing so to them and not all the other martial artists in the area.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby HopeSeiketsu » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:47 pm

I get annoyed when a fan fiction story takes the stance of elevating Akane or the Tendos only, and no realistic backstory is given to it nor why it doing so to them and not all the other martial artists in the area.


I have to agree with you on that, I mean honestly is it THAT hard to make a reason for soun to Get off his ASS amd train them. I can think of FIVE reasons off the top of my head. And if soun dad actually properly trained Akane and had stayed in shape I have little doubt she could at least hold her own against Ukyo if nothing else.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby camk4evr » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:32 am

If I were to rate the main cast of Ranma 1/2 I'd put Akane in the third from last place beating out both of the Kuno siblings, and just after Ukyou (maybe), which still puts her in the top teir of martial artists in the world. She is in no way better than most of the female fighters.
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Cheb » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:14 am

Kiima was purposely leading Akane to drown herself and was all a ruse.

I second this.

I think Akane can handle Kodachi, but that's more based on luck,

No. Akane is fast enough and alert enough to intercept Kodachi's sneak attack from behind, by killing intent alone. Overall, Akane feels as much more durable. She doesn't flinch at being hit, is not afraid of pain, and generally has "this but a flesh wound" attitude. She can simply brute force through most of what Kodachi could throw at her. She also has very low mobility, almost always deflecting or blocking instead of dodging. Against most opponents, that is her downfall. But against Kodachi... It would be like the fight of a breeze against rock. Akane would no-sell every strike and Kodachi would dodge every strike. No one would win.

Anime akane is too flanderized to judge, but manga Akane is clearly stronger than Kodachi (dodging or blocking her sneak attacks expertly -- see their fight in Akane's bedroom). In the rink is one thing, but an all-out street brawl would end with Kodachi flattened if she is stupid enough to get into close range.

, I mean honestly is it THAT hard to make a reason for soun to Get off his ASS amd train them.

The Live Action series got the most hilarious explanation of that: when Souun tries to spar with Akane, she gets so caught up that she beats him horribly, ending with him speeding towards the horizon yelling "No way, no way, no way!" in reply to Akane's "I'll be careful, I promise!"

It's very sad to watch Akane, really. She is halfway up to the major league, and she is stuck :( Jumps half as high as to achieve roof-hopping, reacts half as fast as to have a chance in a fight... Sad :cry:
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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:37 am

Many of these fighters are specialists, rather than generalists. Tatewaki needs a sword, and is best against sword-users. Kodachi is best when she is prepared, powders or rhythmic gymnastics tools. Ryoga specializes in devastation. Ranma is best one-on-one. Ukyo fights armed. Mousse is more of a cluster bomb than a martial artist. (Something he does is likely to hit.) Shampoo is a tracker, specializing in relentless, but she's probably closer to a generalist in a fight than most of these folk. Let's not even mention the older generation.

And Akane is at her best when faced with a horde of mooks. That is a specialty.

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Re: Akane better at martial arts then generally thought?

Postby Blackcat101 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:30 am

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:Many of these fighters are specialists, rather than generalists. Tatewaki needs a sword, and is best against sword-users. Kodachi is best when she is prepared, powders or rhythmic gymnastics tools. Ryoga specializes in devastation. Ranma is best one-on-one. Ukyo fights armed. Mousse is more of a cluster bomb than a martial artist. (Something he does is likely to hit.) Shampoo is a tracker, specializing in relentless, but she's probably closer to a generalist in a fight than most of these folk. Let's not even mention the older generation.

And Akane is at her best when faced with a horde of mooks. That is a specialty.

In Nerima we have a game of martial-arts rock paper scissors, tempered by auctorial fiat.



Save for the fact that Ranma main skill is awesomeness by analysis, so he can end beating anyone.
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