Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

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Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby HopeSeiketsu » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:01 pm

i am starting to work on a crossover but i am unsure as to ranmas standing in fate stay night.

I intend to make it a more powerful ranma than cannon in that i do believe that there are several techniques that he should be able to perform. this is a post manga ranma that decided to take safrons staffs after the battle and give them back if he proves to stand upto ranmas standards at the time of accension. also he will have access to the yamasenken given how easily he learned the umisenken, though he will still be very hesitant to use them as they are forbidden schools.

The hidden weapons technique fits nicely into the second true magic as zelretch is said to have taken several apprentices throughout the centuries even if the did go insane(which fits nicely into having an amazon wife lol). I intend for ranma to have a very basic understanding of the technique though no where near mastery.

Given that Ranma is fully aware of the breaking point training i intend to have him undergo it as a means of strengthening his durability, he will also have the iron cloth technique as that seems like a fairly basic technique.

Given that Od which is the energy that all humans and animals generate is used for magecraft is basically the same thing as ki ranma should have an obscenely high magic cappacity but no formal training in magecraft and his magic circuits are either unopened improperly opened.

i am thinking as far as "magic capacity" goes he will actually be around the same level as Ciel if not higher.

I think ranma would be at low servant level personally, no where near saber level or anything like that but i think he will be able to fairly easily defeat an assassin class once they have been discovered or maybe rider class when they are not on their mount. against a caster in close range it is not even a fight really. Long range he is dead plain and simple. he could probably hold his own in a defensive battle against most of the other servants with hiryu being devastating against most servants due to "ki" being the thing that keeps them in the physical plane.
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby AxelTheBunny » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 pm

Well I've always had an issue with the "give Ranma all the things" mentality in terms of techniques of Nerima....his ability to learn techniques is often exaggerated in fandom, and he only really seems to adopt techniques and trainings that mesh with his own style. Hell he's only ever really trained in new techniques when they were needed. Even the Hiryu Shoten Ha required instruction from Cologne, and it took him time and alot of practice to actually get the Umisenken perfected if I recall. Yes he is extraordinary when it comes to learning new techniques but it's kinda boring to give him every other Ranma character's shtick either way.

It's why I've never been able to actually believe he'd use the yamasenken. As well as the likely reason for him not ever learning the bakusei tenketsu as well. Those are both just more Ryoga's style, more power based perhaps he'd mesh some techniques or try to use a hybridized version of the Yamasenken. But it just doesnt seem Ranma's style and it is something he'd need an actual reason to train in it. Iron cloth is one i can see Ranma learning, as well as hidden weapons style. But like I said, Ranma's best techniques all were developed for different purposes, with the exception of those developed on the fly.

As for magic/ki Im wondering if it could be simply different methods of utilizing the same basic energy. Then ki can have similarity to magic. Hell I'd recommend going with Ki utilization as a less potent, but more hyperefficient way of utilizing Od and then working from there, Ki might also be more adaptable, Then maybe have Ranma slowly pickup on magic, possibly along with some of the other Nerimans as a way to close the gap.

Just my own analysis, opinions, and suggestions but I felt compelled to comment.

Powerwise itself, it'd be hard to judge, he definitely would be outmatched at first powerwise, but as said I'd recommend that in the beginning with a gradual improvement of power.
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby toushin » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:48 pm

AxelTheBunny wrote:Well I've always had an issue with the "give Ranma all the things" mentality in terms of techniques of Nerima....his ability to learn techniques is often exaggerated in fandom, and he only really seems to adopt techniques and trainings that mesh with his own style. Hell he's only ever really trained in new techniques when they were needed. Even the Hiryu Shoten Ha required instruction from Cologne, and it took him time and alot of practice to actually get the Umisenken perfected if I recall. Yes he is extraordinary when it comes to learning new techniques but it's kinda boring to give him every other Ranma character's shtick either way.


I both agree and disagree

Ranma has a very high learning curve, if he sees the technique, particularly if he has seen it repeatedly; he probably knows how to duplicate it. However he did learn the mechanics Umisenken after one attack from Genma the time he took was to perfect it. there are also mechanics to techniques that he doesn’t have the experience or the knowledge to duplicate. Take the Hiryu Shoten Ha he was able to see the form of the technique but he still needed to train in the proper way to manipulate his ki and since it was the complete anthesisis of how he trained up till then it took quit some time. Yet once he mastered that he was able to activate the technique all on his own eventhough Cologne forgot to show him how.


AxelTheBunny wrote:It's why I've never been able to actually believe he'd use the yamasenken. As well as the likely reason for him not ever learning the bakusei tenketsu as well. Those are both just more Ryoga's style, more power based perhaps he'd mesh some techniques or try to use a hybridized version of the Yamasenken. But it just doesnt seem Ranma's style and it is something he'd need an actual reason to train in it. Iron cloth is one i can see Ranma learning, as well as hidden weapons style. But like I said, Ranma's best techniques all were developed for different purposes, with the exception of those developed on the fly.


The same both agree and disagree

Lets put it this way Ranma isn’t a Uchiha able to copy any technique with near-perfect accuracy. Its more like he has the Cognitive Empathy of Ikki from Chivalry of the Failed Knight and Garou from One Punch Man. Ikki observed a character using her fathers techniques as he was training to better utilize her female body and by observation was able to deduce, and understand all her fathers techniques intimately. It also shows that while he can learn a technique if he doesn’t fully realize the mechanics behind it it could backfire on him significantly.

Ranma can reasonably be expected to know many techniques mastering them are a totally different story. I think Mousse's hidden weapons is best used as a plot device Ranma’s sent to a knew world that technique makes sure he has has his pack but he’s not going to be bringing out weapon after weapon. He’s knows how the breaking point works and has seen it too many times to not know it but since he didn’t go through the actual training he doesn’t have the body hardening and I agree its not really his style to use while in combat. The yamasenken is the same way Ranma definitely knows it and since this is post manga by this point he should be fast and strong enough to properly utilize it. however while I can see him utilizing the umisenken the yama seems more like a backed into a corner technique. There’s also Happosai’s fireworks depending on if you want them just to be fireworks or is Happosai creating things with his ki that could lead to some interesting techniques. Does Ranma have the ki reserves yet to pull off a human battle aura.

Ranma has never shown much knowledge other then pressure point other than what was needed so things like Shampoo's remote control acupuncture are out. As well as Hinako's ki draining techniques since they required her to be physically altered. Though he could probably develop his own version given time as Happosai can drain ki without it.




AxelTheBunny wrote:As for magic/ki Im wondering if it could be simply different methods of utilizing the same basic energy. Then ki can have similarity to magic. Hell I'd recommend going with Ki utilization as a less potent, but more hyperefficient way of utilizing Od and then working from there, Ki might also be more adaptable, Then maybe have Ranma slowly pickup on magic, possibly along with some of the other Nerimans as a way to close the gap.


This I completely agree on. The difference between a Mage and a martial artist is how they manipulate their ki. Mages learn to tap into external sources of energy; while martial artist train to tap into the energy already inside them which is nearly as infinite. However Mages can naturally output vast amounts of raw power that would take a martial artist years of training to built up the reserves to match. Ki can be put to many uses if you learn to tap it by making your will the source of all your power. It can speed up and strengthen your movements, cause your limbs to become nearly indestructible weapons that can shatter stone or defy the so-called laws of physics. ki is a powerful weapon in its own right, the ultimate energy to which there are no physical boundaries. It's shaped by the mind and emotions, it expresses the will. Martial artist learn to harness their Spirit Energy so that they can attack an enemy without leaving themselves exposed to counter-attack. In time they understand how to go beyond the supposed limits of time and space and do anything that their will can imagine.---Nabiki ½.

Magic is what you probably should be focusing on Ranma has used magic many times He came to Nerima carrying the girl repellent, he has borrowed magic items from the amazons, he bought magic items, etc. Even in the anime he uses magic, for example he bought magic that brought his shadow to life to practice with (then proceeded to train for three days straight wearing out the magic). It’s not that far fetched to say that he’s been learning magic in fact given his curse and how many other people use magic it be far fetched if he wasn’t.

I put Ranma’s standing the same as I did for the A certain Index universe he’s strong enough to stay alive but he would need time to any sort of real threat. He could probably hold his own against most of the human but the likes of Kirei Kotomine, Souichirou Kuzuki, Zouken Matou would destroy him. Assassin is the perfect example of Ranma’s standing he’s of the hitokiri level which Ranma is nowhere near yet and the other servents are of the same level or higher. Give him some time to get used to the place.
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby slickrcbd » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:04 pm

toushin wrote:Lets put it this way Ranma isn’t a Uchiha able to copy any technique with near-perfect accuracy.

Wasn't that Copycat Ken?
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby Pata Hikari » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:42 pm

HopeSeiketsu wrote:I intend to make it a more powerful ranma than cannon

No no no NO NO NO NO NO!

Stop right here, right now. This automatically makes this a terrible idea.
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby Spica75 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:24 pm

Pata Hikari wrote:No no no NO NO NO NO NO!

Stop right here, right now. This automatically makes this a terrible idea.


So, about half(at least) of the fanfics are terrible then? Including some of the best ones. Right.
You do realise that fanfiction does not actually mean rewriting the original story in other words?
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby Pata Hikari » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:10 pm

Spica75 wrote:So, about half(at least) of the fanfics are terrible then? Including some of the best ones. Right.

Waaayyyy more than half of the fanfics are terrible.

And if you start a story with the goal "I'm going to make this character more powerful" instead of simply "I'm going to make an interesting story" Then it's already a bad idea.

Spica75 wrote:You do realise that fanfiction does not actually mean rewriting the original story in other words?


I fail to see how not wanting Bad Overpowered Ranma Wank Crossover #9325398258972 means I only want "rewriting the original story in other words"

Edit: If we're actually going to make a Ranma/Type-Moon crossover then it pretty much needs to be an AU one way or the other.

Ranma 1/2 and the Nasuverse are fundementally incompatible to their attitudes towards the supernatrual. Of the two sides, the way the supernatural works in Type-Moon is far more intrinsic to the characterization of the characters involved so it'd make more sense to make it a story transplanting the core Ranma 1/2 cast into the Type-Moon universe.

So the question becomes how involved are the Saotome's and Tendos in the Moonlit world? Are they involved directly, if secretly with it? Do they have ties to the Demon Hunting Families? (I doubt they'd have any contact with the Western biased Mage Association, especially since their martial artists not magi). Or is Ranma getting his curse their first exposure to the world, dragging the rest of the Tendos and Saotomes into it with him?

When does the story take place? Why do the Ranma 1/2 characters get involved? What's the result? Every Type-Moon story is fundamentally presenting a theme and core character study through their main character, what do you do to make this work with Ranma?
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby HopeSeiketsu » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:24 pm

Well it would actually make sence for the saotome clan if nothing else to have fairly high ties to the demon hunter clans as one that specializes in ninjutsu (see the saotome graveyard, cant remember actual chapter name/number). also i didn't intend to make him super overpowered just able to survive also i can not agree with him being substantionly weaker than kirei as far as actual martial ability goes, i mean he can cassually throw boulders and punch hundreds if not thousands of times in an instant with the accuracy and precision to make look like a single punch. now that is not to say kirei couldn't beat him as he has alot more tricks up his sleave(probobly). also i was fully intending to have him go through the breaking point training as a way of strengthening his body for the purpose of surviving the servants after his first encounter with one where he is forced to retreat after being wounded. i was thinking maybe a brief "fight" with bersurker because of the witness rule where he is forced to use the umisenken even though it is forbidden just to get out of there alive after all he could atleast survive the shockwaves given that he only recieved small cuts from the vacume waves of the yamasenken which could cut through iron? buda statues. i figure after one swing from berserker in the direction f him illy would assume the witness is dead. though if we want to use the ranma from Vs wikia he is probably even stronger. and you are correct in that yamasenken would act almost entirely as a trump card.

i was also thinking of having him keep the kinjakan and gekkaja afer the fight with safron to make sure he stands up to his standards as a way of having him have a "noble phantasm" so to speak. heck they could legit be considered a noble phantasm that is not claimed by a heroic spirit similar to the fragarch of bazet.
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Re: Ranmas Standing in the fate universe

Postby Pata Hikari » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:47 pm

It doens't matter how physically tough someone is against Servants. As spiritual beings their attacks exist on the conceptual level and the only way to defend yourself against them is magic.

Edit: Also it would be the Tendos that are more likely to have connections to the Demon Hunter families. Since in the manga the Tendo Dojo is often enough asked to go deal with monsters.
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