Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Wyrd » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:42 am

The Death Busters were only found because of a direct result of Usagi's future self sending Chibi-Usa back in time on a mission to make friends, and Hotaru looked like an easy mark to Chibi. They had set up operations well before any senshi had ever been active which make you wonder why they didn't ever seem to fight Beryl's forces.


The initial rift that allowed Hotaru and her father to become possessed happened before Beryl. In the manga canon, though, the creatures from Pharoah 90's world couldn't survive for more than a couple of hours on Earth without a life support system. Most of the time before they started hunting the talismans was spent developing host bodies that wouldn't reject the possessing Daimon, and even by then they had only developed 5(the witches 5) who were not naturally compatible as Hotaru and her father were(either that or they were altered by the energies released in the explosion/Hotaru could survive because of being Sailor Saturn). As a result, they just weren't ready when Beryl was active.

An idea that I would like to see someone use is that it was that experiment which cracked the seal on Metallia in the first place. In the manga, the Queen Serenity AI on the moon activated the moon cats and had them activate the Senshi when the seal weakened enough for Metallia to call Beryl's reincarnation to it, awaken her past life, and start the process of escaping. Everyone involved could have been reincarnated several times in between, with the Queen's spell to send the Senshi to the future merely ensuring that they would be reborn whenever Beryl was, with a certain margin of error that caused them to be so much younger than her.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Zwzn » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:56 am

The Death Busters were only found because of a direct result of Usagi's future self sending Chibi-Usa back in time on a mission to make friends, and Hotaru looked like an easy mark to Chibi. They had set up operations well before any senshi had ever been active which make you wonder why they didn't ever seem to fight Beryl's forces.
Wyrd wrote:The initial rift that allowed Hotaru and her father to become possessed happened before Beryl. In the manga canon, though, the creatures from Pharoah 90's world couldn't survive for more than a couple of hours on Earth without a life support system. Most of the time before they started hunting the talismans was spent developing host bodies that wouldn't reject the possessing Daimon, and even by then they had only developed 5(the witches 5) who were not naturally compatible as Hotaru and her father were(either that or they were altered by the energies released in the explosion/Hotaru could survive because of being Sailor Saturn). As a result, they just weren't ready when Beryl was active.

An idea that I would like to see someone use is that it was that experiment which cracked the seal on Metallia in the first place. In the manga, the Queen Serenity AI on the moon activated the moon cats and had them activate the Senshi when the seal weakened enough for Metallia to call Beryl's reincarnation to it, awaken her past life, and start the process of escaping. Everyone involved could have been reincarnated several times in between, with the Queen's spell to send the Senshi to the future merely ensuring that they would be reborn whenever Beryl was, with a certain margin of error that caused them to be so much younger than her.

I was using the apparently more logical anime as the source.

Why were they trying to come to Earth if it was so hostile to them?

Hotaru's poor health seemed to be Nine's fault I thought?

Souichi Tomoe was studying genetics. Why the would a geneticists be making wormholes?

How did Uranus and Neptune find the Death Busters base years before the Beryl arc if the Death Busters could not do anything?
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:39 am

The anime? More logical? *I restrain myself from laughing my ass off*

I don't know about any of that stuff that was mentioned. What I do know (from the manga) is that they came to Earth because there was some time-space distortion (or whatever) that connected the two dimensions together, and they were attracted to the energy that they sensed there. It wasn't that the environment was hostile, but that they were running out of energy and needed something to help them get it; which is where professor Tomoe's genetic engineering comes in. Although they do require vessels to live on Earth; exactly why, who knows.

Hotaru's poor health was due to the artificial body parts (at least three limbs, if I remember correctly) that had replaced what she had lost in the accident. Although Mistress 9's progress in awakening in Hotaru hadn't helped. (Hotaru considers her body to be cold and bloodless, and the outer senshi confirm it by saying that her body is a machine, and that it's falling apart (which would explain the pain).)

As for wormholes... Whatever made it possible for them to reach Earth, it hadn't been due to anything that the professor had done. If I understand what was being said in the manga, the accident that killed his wife, and nearly killed Hotaru, was an incident separate from the one where the baddies arrived, which was about four years prior to when the story begins. I think that's a reasonable amount of time for the baddie to build up its strength while it searches for the energy that it needs, and it is also enough time for Uranus and Neptune to sense something weird and investigate it. There's no telling when (and thus how long ago) Neptune and Uranus found the enemy's location, but there were reports (in the newspaper, and I'm guessing that it would show up on TV news) of strange things happening in the area, which would have been enough to tip them off and investigate. And they seem to have a sense for feeling when something is off; especially Pluto, in this case (what with there being a distortion in space or whatever it is). For all that we know, Neptune and Uranus might have only been active for a matter of months, which would be about as long as any of the guardian senshi.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Wyrd » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:33 am

Answers, from the manga:

I was using the apparently more logical anime as the source.

Why were they trying to come to Earth if it was so hostile to them?


Pharoah 90 was a living planet capable of xenoforming(the opposite of terraforming) the Earth so that it would become habitable to its people without these problems. The Earth would then likely become known as Pharoah 91, as it started to look for a planet to spawn to. This is part of why Mistress 9 was perfectly fine with wiping out all life on Earth: it was their plan to do so anyways, and having it done before Pharoah 90 spawned would just remove any opposition to its efforts.

Hotaru's poor health seemed to be Nine's fault I thought?


It was a combination of Nine's influence, her father's experiments on her, and the damage sustained in the accident that let Nine through in the first place.

Souichi Tomoe was studying genetics. Why the would a geneticists be making wormholes?


Souichi Tomoe was a physicist. He didn't start working with genetics until after he had been possessed, at which point he had the knowledge of an alien culture to make him appear to be a genius in genetics. He used the money he earned from his 'discoveries' to build Mugen Gakuen.

How did Uranus and Neptune find the Death Busters base years before the Beryl arc if the Death Busters could not do anything?


They didn't. Mugen Gakuen had only been in operation for a year or two, and it appears that neither Michiru nor Haruka were attending it until after they awakened as Senshi. Before the building was ready for their experiments on people to make more of them have pure heart crystals and to make them more suitable as vessels for Daimons, their base of operations was either Tomoe's lab or an intermediate building elsewhere.

Whatever made it possible for them to reach Earth, it hadn't been due to anything that the professor had done. If I understand what was being said in the manga, the accident that killed his wife, and nearly killed Hotaru, was an incident separate from the one where the baddies arrived, which was about four years prior to when the story begins.


As I recall, the incident where his wife was killed had him cradling Hotaru's body as a being that had made its way through the rift offered to save her... for a price.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:50 pm

Um... You said that your answers are from the manga, but some of them... ^^;

Professor Tomoe had been into genetic engineering (that's what he specialized in) and he had published research (on animals) that had "gone too far," which had gotten him expelled from "the academic establishment." His desire to create super beings had preceded being taken over by an alien, and was referred to as being his life's work. That was seven or eight years ago, according to Usagi's father; six according to the information that Mamoru had found in his hacking of the Infinity College database.

The incident that had killed his wife and had nearly killed Hotaru happened during a construction fire, two years after he had sold his research to commercial developers and bought the Infinity Bank area. It was during an experiment to try and remake Hotaru into a super being that the baddies from the other dimensions "landed," which interrupted the experiment. As a result his attentions were focused elsewhere, which left Hotaru with a body that was part machine instead of whatever his experiment would have resulted in, had it not been interrupted.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Wyrd » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:27 pm

Perhaps I am confusing some of the anime and manga, because I have specific scenes in mind, with images in black and white to go with them, suggesting that they came from the manga. I could be applying some of what I remember from the anime to scenes from the manga. I tend to mix my canons when writing SM anyways because while the manga is much more coherent overall, there are parts of the anime that make more sense.

Unfortunately, SM is not one of the mangas that I have downloaded to my harddrive, making searching for the right pages to check difficult, and SM is not available in America in print, not that I would be that interested in an official translation given how badly it's been mangled by previous official translators.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:02 pm

That's okay. I have the advantage of having the physical source for the information, so...

From my experience, the Tokyo Pop translations, with the exception of character names, passes muster. Most fan-translations that I've come across are usually good, including the one I found for Sailor Moon, but I've seen more of those do worse than official translations, whose main problems usually arise in regard to censorship, not in conveying information in general. (Because fan-translations can have horrible grammar, which affects how the information is conveyed.)

I came across something that said that Naru is often made into Sailor Earth by fan-writers. I don't read straight-out Sailor Moon fan-fiction, so I wonder about that. If it's common enough, it'd work nicely for a story idea that I have in mind.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Wyrd » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:33 pm

I've seen it, but not often enough to call it common. Sailor Z is a particularly good fic with Naru as a Senshi.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby TerraEpon » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:39 am

It certainly used to happen a lot. She's Nemesis in Z, though, IIRC (also in Sailor Moon Expanded, but only in a sense she was 'supposed' to be or something, I forget the details)
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:34 am

Sailor Moon Expanded? I'll have to check that out.

I did happen upon a Sailor Moon doujinshi where Naru was Sailor Earth a few hours ago.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:09 am

Ah, tales of Dark Kingdom Renegades.

When your supervillain turns into a Bogart fanatic, it's just... awesome.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Zwzn » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:38 am

by Crescent Pulsar R wrote: The anime? More logical? *I restrain myself from laughing my ass off*

Check episode 120, and tell me that isn't better then the over complicated and plot hole ridden version in the manga? It's simple and explains everything

by Crescent Pulsar R wrote: I don't know about any of that stuff that was mentioned. What I do know (from the manga) is that they came to Earth because there was some time-space distortion (or whatever) that connected the two dimensions together, and they were attracted to the energy that they sensed there. It wasn't that the environment was hostile, but that they were running out of energy and needed something to help them get it; which is where professor Tomoe's genetic engineering comes in. Although they do require vessels to live on Earth; exactly why, who knows.

The Earth is special is a problem with the entire manga.

They came after the plot device, and not the Earth it's self, right?

by Crescent Pulsar R wrote: Hotaru's poor health was due to the artificial body parts (at least three limbs, if I remember correctly) that had replaced what she had lost in the accident. Although Mistress 9's progress in awakening in Hotaru hadn't helped. (Hotaru considers her body to be cold and bloodless, and the outer senshi confirm it by saying that her body is a machine, and that it's falling apart (which would explain the pain).)

The whole cyborg thing makes no sense, and has far reaching ramifications that don't match up with the rest of Sailor Moon.

There is no way to hide the fact Hotaru is a cyborg for example.

Hotaru's limbs would be what every amputee would want. To someone like Ami the Tomoe name should have been well known.

Given how long it would have taken it design and build the things needed to make Hotaru's machine parts it's very possible Hotaru was more machine then girl, literally a walking decaying corpse.

The author didn't think it through.

by Wyrd wrote: Pharoah 90 was a living planet capable of xenoforming(the opposite of terraforming) the Earth so that it would become habitable to its people without these problems. The Earth would then likely become known as Pharoah 91, as it started to look for a planet to spawn to. This is part of why Mistress 9 was perfectly fine with wiping out all life on Earth: it was their plan to do so anyways, and having it done before Pharoah 90 spawned would just remove any opposition to its efforts.

Pharoah 90 is far to small to be a planet, and if you are going to Pharoahform a planet why both with Earth when you have empty places that are just as good like the Moon?

by Wyrd wrote: Souichi Tomoe was a physicist. He didn't start working with genetics until after he had been possessed, at which point he had the knowledge of an alien culture to make him appear to be a genius in genetics. He used the money he earned from his 'discoveries' to build Mugen Gakuen.

Anime says other wise, and I can't find any source that says that.

by Crescent Pulsar R » wrote: The incident that had killed his wife and had nearly killed Hotaru happened during a construction fire, two years after he had sold his research to commercial developers and bought the Infinity Bank area. It was during an experiment to try and remake Hotaru into a super being that the baddies from the other dimensions "landed," which interrupted the experiment. As a result his attentions were focused elsewhere, which left Hotaru with a body that was part machine instead of whatever his experiment would have resulted in, had it not been interrupted.

You'd think the government would have noticed something like a little girl being turned into a cyborg.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:57 am

Zwzn wrote:Check episode 120, and tell me that isn't better then the over complicated and plot hole ridden version in the manga? It's simple and explains everything

I seriously doubt it, but I'll watch it sometime tomorrow because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The Earth is special is a problem with the entire manga.

They came after the plot device, and not the Earth it's self, right?

Both, I imagine. Their goal was to renew their energy and find a new place to live, so they were trying to take care of two birds with one stone.

The Earth being special isn't a problem because that's the only habitable planet in that solar system. Plus, that's where the ginzuishou is, and its "brightness," as described in the last two story arcs, draws the attention of the "dark."

The whole cyborg thing makes no sense, and has far reaching ramifications that don't match up with the rest of Sailor Moon.

It makes plenty of sense, and matches just fine. Takeuchi conceived Sailor Moon with inspiration from the sentai genre, so there's all kinds of sci-fi gadgets and technology in the series: such as some of their tools, their secret control center, the palace on the moon, and each senshi's castle. There's plenty of advanced technology, and that trend continues in Crystal Tokyo.

There is no way to hide the fact Hotaru is a cyborg for example.

Your opinion is an example? I can assure you that it is not impossible to hide the fact that parts of her body have been replaced. Where there's a quill (as it were), there's a way.

Hotaru's limbs would be what every amputee would want. To someone like Ami the Tomoe name should have been well known.

That's assuming that professor Tomoe would be forced to share what he knows, or was even interested in sharing it with the world to begin with. The thing is, he was far from being altruistic, and his research (and methods) had been rejected by his peers. The only thing that mattered to him was creating a super being, not helping the disabled or saving lives.

Given how long it would have taken it design and build the things needed to make Hotaru's machine parts it's very possible Hotaru was more machine then girl, literally a walking decaying corpse.

I'll only argue that the time that it would have taken is unknown, and saying anything to the contrary is an assumption.

The author didn't think it through.

I'm not complaining. Makes enough sense, to me.

Pharoah 90 is far to small to be a planet, and if you are going to Pharoahform a planet why both with Earth when you have empty places that are just as good like the Moon?

Size wouldn't matter. Pharaoh 90 would have become the planet. And I reckon that the Earth is preferable to the moon because of its resources. And the fact that the dimensional warping was there, not somewhere else.

You'd think the government would have noticed something like a little girl being turned into a cyborg.

Not necessarily. Especially if he had his own medical facility on the premises. It's just like tactical warfare: if you control your environment, you can control the tide of fortune.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby bissek » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:10 am

Also, I believe that Hotaru's wardrobe at the time was specifically chosen so that all cybernetic parts would be hidden from casual view. Sort of like how a complete stranger would not realize that Ed Elric's right arm is fake unless he takes the glove off or rolls up his sleeve to reveal the automail.
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Re: Osaka Naru: baddie magnet?

Postby Wyrd » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:35 pm

Pharoah 90 is far to small to be a planet, and if you are going to Pharoahform a planet why both with Earth when you have empty places that are just as good like the Moon?


As I recall, and I'm going to need to re-read my sources since people keep disagreeing with what I recall, Pharoah 90 covered their entire planet. What was coming through the rift was an extension of it that would then xenoform the Earth. The Inners formed a barrier that kept it from spreading beyond the immediate vicinity of the rift. The need for the DDR was to send a blast through the rift that sterilized the planet on the other end, ending the threat to the Earth.

The Earth was it's target for multiple reasons, one of which being the rift that initially allowed its agents to land on Earth, and another being the fact that there were people on the Earth its agents could use to create the other end of the wormhole and stabilize it so that it could come through. Another possibility is that the Earth was larger, with a gravity level closer to what was desired, and the resources available on the Earth for use in xenoforming are vastly different from the resources available on the moon. For one thing, Earth has a molten spinning nickel iron core that provides it with a magnetic field that protects the atmosphere from the scouring effects of solar wind. The moon does not.

An idea I've considered using is that Venus would actually better suit Pharoah 90's needs. Once this is discovered by the Senshi, they make a peace agreement with the Death Busters where they harm no more humans and the Senshi use their powers to help Pharoah 90 xenoform Venus.
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