Cousins: What's the Big Deal?

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Re: Cousins: What's the Big Deal?

Postby PCHeintz72 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:57 pm

There are different continuities, and I personally believe that you cannot take a fact from one and always apply it to the other, which seems to be what the two main proponents of the 'not a big deal' camp, zwzn and PCHeintz72, are doing. What seems to be happening here is that people are applying facts from something created later and expecting them to apply to the older series. How to word this.. it's kind of like Diane Duane's Young Wizards series of novels, where the timeline slides forward with each installation, except that here, it's the facts that are sliding, and not the timeline. (note that I won't even touch the 'when seasons three through five take place' debate that seems to be going on. I've got enough on my plate, thank you very much.)

I cannot speak for others, but that summary of my stance is not quite correct.

When I say I do not care or that it is not a big deal to me, I am not stating I take from one and apply to other canon continuities... I'm saying it does not matter to me overly much which canon continuity the author is using, which is not the same thing.

I've seen stories where the two outers are cousins, I've seen them where they are lovers, I've even seen them as man haters (not the same as merely being lesbian)... likewise, I've seen other items different from one canon continuity to another canon continuity, I've even pointed a few here out, such as Makotos mother being alive in anime dub.

As long as I know which continuity I'm in, I do not in fact overly care and it is not a big enough deal for me to be spitting tacks so to speak... About the only one I generally avoid is the live series continuity... I've only seen at most a couple decent stories using that as the base.

There are a *lot* of fannon and misrepresentation of things in Sailor Moon, some the fan community itself seems to accept without arguing anymore. One such example is the misrepresentation of the time gates and instead of their actual use and look as presented in canon, they are described and work as a controllable Guardian of Forever (Star Trek TOS reference) or Old Time Tunnel series device. They are *not* the same.
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Re: Cousins: What's the Big Deal?

Postby TerraEpon » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:52 am

Chibi-Usa is more like 5 in season 2, and in season 4 she's 8 (specifically, third grade).

Also, FWIW, Haruka and Michiru are in the SS special, and clearly shown to be on vacation some where not near Tokyo.
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Re: Cousins: What's the Big Deal?

Postby Zwzn » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:19 am

TerraEpon wrote:Chibi-Usa is more like 5 in season 2, and in season 4 she's 8 (specifically, third grade).

Also, FWIW, Haruka and Michiru are in the SS special, and clearly shown to be on vacation some where not near Tokyo.

Uranus and Neptune are last seen in season 3 driving along the Great Seto Bridge. That may narrow down where they went.

They may have been killed when Ryo-Ohki and Ryu-Oh crash into it. :lol:
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Re: Cousins: What's the Big Deal?

Postby camk4evr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:11 am

To bring this back on topic, I guess that people hate the change from Haruka and Michiru being lovers to being cousins generally falls into one, or more, of the following three reasons:

1) They Changed it Now it Sucks,

2) The reasons for changing it,

3) to quote a friend who told me about the change "That's incest!"

The first "reason" is no real reason but just a kneejerk reaction that I, personally, don't allways agree with (even if it is true for Sailor Moon ^_^). For example, in the american TV version of Naruto I found the scene where Sasuke and Naruto accidentally kiss to be funnier because they didn't show the kiss just everyone's reaction to it with the sound effect playing leaving the 'kiss' itself to the viewer's imagination. Another example is Shinesman where most people I spoken with agree that the dubbed verion is funnier than the subbed version (though I prefer to watch it dubbed with the subtitles as I think seeing the changes made make it even funnier).

The second reason is, as we all know, is that the changes were made because of the conservative belief that there should be no depiction of a homosexual relationship in a children's show for any reason even one that's as lowkey as Haruka and Michiru's. Keep in mind that while it's slightly more obvious in the manga than the anime, it is still mostly subtext and had to be confirmed by Naoko Takeuchi in a Q&A session at a con (unfortunately I no longer have a link to the website with that tidbit of information). For those who are interested, I was in a debate on another site about whether or not American audiences were ready for their relationship on the side that we are (the debate pretty much ended when someone pointed out that the debate itself was proof that the answer was 'no').

The third reason is more that some people decided that, even though they were made cousins in the DiC/Cloverway dubs, they were still lovers as well, either because they had a dirty mind or because they thought it was amusing (or both) and an incestuous relationship is a lot worse than a lesbian relationship.
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Shinji: Well suppose some mysterious entities were attacking, and
Asuka:Oh please, Baka Shinji, that sounds like some cheap, pseudo-profound T.V. show. Low budget. Ambiguous ending.
-Asuka and Shinji discussing why you would build a giant robot. NGE: Shinji Ikari Raising Project Vol.6
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