Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

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Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Quickshot0 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:08 pm

While I saw this topic was done before, I noticed one particular idea was not suggested in it.

Namely, what if the great freeze was caused by the entity seen in the Snow Princess Kaguya Sailor Moon S movie arc (I've never seen a name for her anywhere sadly), it's after the attack by the Black Moon and during the Death Busters. Basically what I'm thinking is, would the Sailor Senshi have been able to defeat this attack, with out the power ups they acquired against the Black Moon? Assuming they had failed it would have effectively defeated the Death Busters as they aren't ready at the time. And probably made Nehelenia moot, or also defeated. Galaxia could have been defeated otherwise, maybe by Sailor Moon at another location, thus why she returned later on and cleaned up the mess on Earth once she was more combat able.

Maybe I am missing something though that renders this entire line of thought invalid, any one have any thoughts on this speculative possibility?
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:22 pm

No question: the Great Freeze is the Fimbulwinter, prelude to Ragnarok. And we could avoid it by all driving SUVs, but Pluto is keeping that a secret because she doesn't like what that would do to Crystal Tokyo.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:28 pm

Oooo-kay. All I know is that Princess Kaguya is defeated after the Deathbusters are defeated, and the supposed occurrence of a "great freeze" happens after Galaxia, which comes after the defeat of Princess Kaguya. So... it can't be due to her.

Personally, the "great freeze" is a stupid plot device, in part because it doesn't seem to be elaborated on/explained enough. At least, it certainly seems that way, what with the meager amount of worthless sources I can find for it on the Net. Thank goodness for the manga.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Quickshot0 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:16 pm

I thought it wasn't really said when exactly it was supposed to happen... From what I recall during the Black Moon Family arc, it is just said to be some time in the future, what this would qualify as. Though maybe this is a bit sooner then they meant, still the goal of the Snow Princess is rather similar... At least it seems so to me.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:01 pm

In order to put this horrible plot device to the grave, I decided to watch the anime episode that mentioned it. (Which started at the end of one and ended at the beginning of another. =_=) After enduring an episode worth of the horrible English dub, I found it... and it's even worse than I thought it would be.

Basically, it was caused by an ecological disaster. Which means that we can place it after Galaxia, since the Earth was fine around that time. And, somehow, even though cryogenics, in this way, is bust (because, if I remember correctly, cells die when the water in the body freezes and expands), people somehow remain dormant for roughly a thousand years (since I'm assuming it started sometime in the twentieth or twenty-first century; all that's said is that they don't wake up until the thirtieth). Then Usagi up and decides, after all that time (instead of stopping or fixing the initial cause of the "great freeze"), to take to the throne (what throne?) and use the ginzuishou to fix the world and thus awaken its inhabitants.

Worst. Plot device. Ever. It's got more holes in it than swiss cheese. But, hey, at least I've done what others have failed to do: by posting some god damn information about the cause of the "great freeze" on the Interwebs. Damn it all to hell... >_<
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Comartemis » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:34 pm

Anger issues much, Crescent? :?
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KILL the darkfic. BURN the angst. PURGE the Bad End.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:57 pm

Yes. How dare a bunch of people be lazy over such a detail, for so many years, thus resulting in me having to endure the horrible English dub. :P
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby TerraEpon » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:54 am

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:
Basically, it was caused by an ecological disaster. Which means that we can place it after Galaxia, since the Earth was fine around that time. And, somehow, even though cryogenics, in this way, is bust (because, if I remember correctly, cells die when the water in the body freezes and expands), people somehow remain dormant for roughly a thousand years (since I'm assuming it started sometime in the twentieth or twenty-first century; all that's said is that they don't wake up until the thirtieth). Then Usagi up and decides, after all that time (instead of stopping or fixing the initial cause of the "great freeze"), to take to the throne (what throne?) and use the ginzuishou to fix the world and thus awaken its inhabitants.


In the fanfic called Secrets (I forget the author, Ken something I think), cyrogenic freezing is exactly what they do -- and they are only able to save something like a 30 mile radius out from the palace (which is the result of a 'trap' or something that actually CAUSES the freeze) where they cast the spell to do it.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:16 am

Huh. That's a weird explanation. It'd probably sound better once read in its entirety. XD Maybe I'll try to find that story and take a peek... I've been picking up a few fics every now and again, lately, instead of not reading anything at all.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Quickshot0 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:04 am

Hmmm, so an ecologically catastrophe, which episodes is this exactly really any way? Might be interested in to looking in to this myself.
Incidentally, is there any difference between the dub and non-dub versions of Sailor Moon regarding this explanation?
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:19 am

As far as I can tell, it takes place a third of the way into episode 76 for the dub. (I got it wrong last time, since I mixed it up with part one and part two of the video.) For the sub, it takes place a third of the way into episode 83.

The difference between them is that the sub is even more vague. It doesn't go into specifics, and one might say that it's even cryptic, but it still doesn't explain much. Basically, it's just a "great calamity" instead of an "ecological disaster" (with a difference like that, one of those must be wro-oooong~), and just "the earth fell into a cold sleep" instead of "the earth freezing over and all living beings placed into a state of dormancy." In the end, neither explain why Serenity didn't act until the thirtieth century. The sub, especially, makes it clear that "the earth slumbered for a long, long time."

It's such a pain. Which is why I prefer the manga, where we know that Usagi (along with Mamoru) is crowned in the twenty-first century, at the age of twenty-two. And instead of any "great freezing" and "cold sleep" the ginzuishou extends a person's lifespan. Which lays a better foundation for both Chibi-Usa's age and the Dark Moon's/Nega Moon's origin. That's my opinion, anyway. ;p
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Quickshot0 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:42 am

Ahh, ok, so if I understand this right, you might just be able to wrangle my interpretation at the start of the thread out of it. Though the time time frame seems kind of quick, hmmm. Such a shame too, we already saw when she froze people they didn't die and could be revived, and it would have neatly tied up some loose ends. Though I guess you'd have the issue of it no longer being the Crystal Tokyo time line.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:32 pm

I don't see anything wrong with making it an alternate universe, if an author wanted to explore that idea. But, as far as canon is concerned, it can't take place until after Galaxia since no "great calamity" of any kind takes place beforehand. Well, none that aren't immediately/eventually remedied by Usagi and her use of the ginzuishou. (In particular, the third and fourth story arcs.) Although that alone puts into question why she didn't take care of it like she normally would such an occurrence. Stupid anime.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Quickshot0 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:15 pm

No what I mean is... what if the Black Moon invasion is the point when an alternate time line started and that in the new one, the Great Freeze never happens, simply because the team are better. I guess this might mean Crystal Tokyo never happened either, but lets not get in to time mechanics, those are good to give any one a headache.
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Re: Possible cause of the Great Freeze?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:41 pm

You say not to get into time mechanics, but what else can you do when your reasoning is based on alternate timelines caused by time travel? XD But, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the canon timeline doesn't have a "great freeze" because the Dark Moon/Nega Moon traveled into the past, thus making the senshi strong enough to fend off Princess Kaguya later as a result of dealing with them.

Well, even if they didn't travel into the past, the senshi would still be just as strong for Princess Kaguya. Remember, they only get stronger when they get a new transformation. And it's right after the Doom Tree story arc when they receive their new gear for the next transformation, thanks to Luna and Artemis developing them. Then it's just a matter of time until the next story arc starts, and things would proceed from there in the same way, power-wise. And once that story arc is over, they'd have the power of the chalice/grail to defeat Princess Kaguya.
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