Giving Usagi the Bhepin Treatment

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Postby al103 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:45 am

Only it's not most but just about half of ideas in this thread... Ok, 2/3.
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Postby Comartemis » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:24 am

It could be something as simple as meeting a magical mascot adviser at a younger age who then trains her to be the Dark Kingdom's worst nightmare over a course of years before they make their first appearance. In that vein, it could also be a device like receiving her locket much earlier, and having it contain the spirit of Queen Serenity who then acts as her mentor instead of Luna (in canon, Luna did a poor job of being Usagi's mentor and didn't really contribute to her growth as a person or warrior).

That second one sounds like it has a lot of potential. Usagi exposed to Queen Serenity is obviously more likely to remember herself as Princess Serenity, assuming Queeny doesn't just say it outright. With past memories may come leadership skills and other talents -- not necessarily powers -- which Usagi lacked in the series. A Sailor Moon with actual leadership skills would in and of itself be a huge improvement over the canon series, and other improvements could follow from there, perhaps inspired directly by Usagi's talents.
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Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:39 am

Usagi is the linchpin for the Senshi. It would be quite in line with persona for her to be a kind of non-alcoholic Drunken Master.

And wouldn't that inspire the rest? "She's a clumsy ditz, and she still does that to the youma? I can do better than that!" Spur the others on, it would, especially if they'd known one another for a long time. Start with bullies, graduate to magical bullies... Heck, they could be into the love and justice routine for years before they got their powers. They'd have teamwork from the get-go, then.
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Postby lwf58 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:51 am

The problem with getting the Senshi together earlier is that it doesn't quite match the template. In Shinji and W2K, Shinji develops on his own while staying where Gendo dumped him as a young child. He met the rest of the cast as per canon. To be true to S&W2K, Usagi would need to do a great deal of growing up and training her mind beforehand, and then meet the others as she did in canon SM.
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Postby Comartemis » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:55 am

There's also the fact that most of the Senshi have no real way to meet prior to the series without invoking Contrived Coincidence hard. I think Ami transferred into school shortly before the series began, I know Makoto did around the time she was introduced, Rei doesn't even go to Juuban Junior High, and Minako is off hunting demons in Britain. Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Saturn are also out of reach, though I'd cheerfully use a contrived coincidence if it would get Hotaru into the plot earlier than Season 3.
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Postby Heaven's Deamon » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:10 am

I see yor point. Some of the ideas, such as Rei gaining more spirtual powers or Makoto becoming a Ki user could still be used, just that instead of having them from the start, encountering the altered Usagi causes them to look at the areas they can already perform well in and train themselves further in those areas.

For bringing in the Outers sooner, if the Senshi take things more seriously, they could wonder if there are any others, and take steps to find out, once they know Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto exist it's a simple step further to try and find their current incarnations.
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Postby CJN » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:14 am

lwf58 wrote:Most of these ideas miss the point entirely. It's not a matter of giving each Senshi a separate power-up. The idea behind Shinji and W2K was that one factor changed Shinji in a fundamental way and he in turn introduced the other characters to that factor, which changed them in turn. ...

To make this work properly, a factor is needed that Usagi discovers and which changes her life and outlook at a basic level and allows her to become much more focused and effective. She then introduces this factor to the other girls as she meets them and it changes them in similar ways.

I agree, for an example that shows that it can be done, take a look at Red Moon.

I think you first should consider if you want a serious Usagi or an Usagi that's more inspired by something not real (like Shinji and WH40K).

Some possible serious backgrounds to consider are for example: Usagi the gun nut, Usagi the Mithril (FMP) member, Usagi Noir, ....
As for fictional inspiration, there's so much to choose from. Maybe she's a Nahona fan? Or a World of Warcraft player? Or maybe even a TTGL fan?

Also, I think that having a background training in another kind of magic wouldn't work very well, because then there would be mentors and associates from that branch that would distract from the making senshi awesome task.
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Postby Jomasten » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:35 am

One other reason why Shin-40 was successful was because of its setting. With a post-Apocalyptic world, this left a very wide opening for Bhepin to give Shinji a Destined Meeting. Oh, and get clonked in the head by a tightly sealed suitcase filled with brain-corrupting (Or should that be brain-enhancing, given how much of an Epic Magnificent Bastard Shinji has become?) codices and figures.

As I have said, for Sailor Moon to get the desired 'UBER-ups', something has to happen to Usagi, or for Usagi to encounter something that would indubitably leave a long lasting impression on her.

For Shinji, it was the discovery of the suitcase. For Usagi, something either as simple as finding something(like Shinji) or witnessing a very mind-boggling and life-changing phenomena could suffice.

(...Oddly, this one suddenly got an image of Usagi facing down a bear in the forest, and knocking it out so she could safely get away...)


Actually CJN, for the TTGL-fan suggestion, here's one:

Usagi, as a child, sees one of the most extra-ordinary events that could happen.

In another galaxy, [insert Star Wars pun here], Simon and his crew was facing down the Anti-Spiral Grand Zamboa in the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, the bigger-than-a-f*ing-galaxy-giant robot.

With those two events, strangely, only Usagi witnesses it on her planet. With the event seared into her mind, and everyone else none the wiser, this could have a significant change in Usagi's outlook as well as her childhood.
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Postby Tovath » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:53 pm

How about Usagi becoming freinds with Yohko Mano and finding out about Deamons and how to find them before she becomes sailor Moon?
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Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:02 pm

Tovath wrote:How about Usagi becoming freinds with Yohko Mano and finding out about Deamons and how to find them before she becomes sailor Moon?

I can see a lot of good coming out of that - especially since it might get Granny Mano in there teaching them demon-slaying and/or avoidance. I love Luna to pieces, but she is a lousy teacher.
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Postby spooky316 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:08 pm

All we have to do is alter the Silver Millennium a bit (as in most cases, we turn to 40k for guidance), then when the senshi recover some of their memories things will turn out different...

Be advised, the following is the setting for a crossover (borrowing one race from Starcraft and another from Stargate) idea I posted on The Fanfiction Forum.

Me @ TFF wrote:Long before the Imperium of the Moon was established, the Goa'uld discovered Earth and humans. Then (like in Stargate) they took some as hosts and seeded others on planets throughout the galaxy. (I should mention that there are no gates in this) The humans on Earth were eventually able to overthrow the Goa'uld there, forcing them off the planet. This was the first instance of the woman who would become Empress using her phenomenal magical prowess.

Then (also like in Stargate) the Goa'uld basically forgot about Earth. Over the next thousand years or so, the Empress would help humanity advance enough to reach the stars (along with helping those who developed the ability to use magic), eventually establishing colonies throughout the solar system.

After a thousand years the Empress discovered that more of what she considered "her people" were out there, still being oppressed by the goa'uld. The First Crusade was launched, in order to reunite humanity and free them from the evil Xenos.

Now, a couple hundred years later, more systems had been rescued and annexed by the Imperium. However, there were many more human-filled worlds out there, still under control of the goa'uld. From her castle on Earth's only moon, the Empress prepares to signal the launch of the 5th Crusade into Goa'uld controlled space.

In the background, Chaos waits and watches, subtly infecting and twisting the thoughts of the young queen of Earth, while a new extra-galactic threat is preparing to arrive on the fringe of the Milky Way...

My original idea had the senshi as the equivalent of the Adeptus Custodes which makes them the Empress's personal guards. Of course, you could also make them the equivalent of the Primarchs. Either way, their attitudes towards the enemies (after they remember, of course) would change. For instance, I toyed around with Sailor Moon using this line or something similar when confronting Jadeite w/ youma henchmen:

So in addition to betraying the Empress, you consort with Xenos scum?! That's extra heresy!

This of course would be followed by some overkill attack.

I haven't quite figured out how the cats fit in yet, except that they wouldn't call them "Sailor Senshi." Since the cats' memories are fried they'd use something like "Battlesisters" or "Sanctioned Sorceresses" instead of "Primarch" or "Custodes" or what have you.


Whatever, that's just my idea. Make of it what you will.

EDIT: Oh, in case anyone's interested, here's the link to my thread.

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Postby Jomasten » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:56 pm

But I don't think that suddenly giving Usagi an about-face in terms of suddenly taking the Sailor Senshi business seriously would work.

Maybe a combination of my idea and yours would work better? Usagi experiences something that makes her take things slightly more seriously, then finds Luna?

The cats are understandably a problem. But then again, what is the feminine conjugation of 'warrior' or 'soldier', or even possibly 'myrmidon'?
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Postby OSMQEP » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:37 pm

I have some number of methods.

Pulling items from my solution to the 'White Devil of the Moon' Problem

1. Senshi were recruited and trained in the Silver Millenium in a fashion analogous to modern US methods for infantry officers. Some of them actually had an infantry officer background. Some of this can be retained.

2. Posit a deeper connection between the senshi, and the namesake myths. The legendary figures and their cognates in other pantheons had useful traits. In my solution, the senshi tapped into, among other things, the forces that were the driving factors behind the myths. Reckless, unsafe drawing on these forces created the figures that became known as gods in all their bastardy.

3. Senshi are to some extent inhuman, were made that, in such a way that is useful for fighting mind eating horrors. The reincarnation process concealed this, but it is still there.

4. The Senshi died and were reborn prior to the start of the story. What if they Came Back Wrong? Again, in my solution to WDoTM, Sailor Moon coming back wrong is what caused Usagi to end up Nanoha instead.

5. The reincarnation process was biased in a manner that selected bloodlines of some power or potential to be reborn into.

6. Something is really odd with the Silver Crystal. Perhaps it just has been becoming ever better at killing over time. Perhaps splitting into seven, becoming a part of the seven shadows, and then reintegrating stole power from the youma, and gave the Senshi the power to kill Metalia. Perhaps it spits Getter Rays, and Spiral Energy while being the Jewel of Judgement.

7. Perhaps the bloodlines the Senshi were born out of were special. Perhaps humans are special.

Other, prior efforts have included the above, as well as:

8. The Senshi are born into a different society. Thus, they get different cultural mores imprinted on them in early childhood. A destructive example would be being born into a Japan that had not lost, or had even won WWII. This particular example is not something I have cared for enough to examine throughly.

9. Society changes around the Senshi and drags them with it. For example, dumping the Senshi into the Posleen war.

10. Personal influences. The reincarnation was about five hundred years late, and the Senshi ended up in Yamato on Terra Nova. They end up paired with some of Carrera's Officers.

Jomasten- Soldieress, Warrioress Both work according to Myrmidon was, IIRC, the name of a people and would probably be gender neutral.
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Postby Cheb » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:55 am

Just take the manga SM and be done with it. An immense, unmatched power and no hesitation to use it. No speeches, no reconciliation. Enemies die ugly, cut to pieces, skewered or splattered. Civilians die ugly, sometimes burned alive. Children are brutally killed over her mother's dead body. No youma, just mano-o-mano fights. Senshi able to reach the orbit on their own and fight in the open space where the athmosphere doesn't hinder them, spewing a Godzilla-sized energy blasts. Should I continue?

Zoicite's end. Poor sap didn't have time to do anything. Show yourself, meet Venus, get chopped.

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Postby Seraphim » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:10 pm

One idea I've just had is to make Rei a Rokugani-style shugenja, one strongly able hear the voices of the Kami, thus heavily favoured by them, maybe most so by Kagutsuchi/Hachiman? Or is that to cliche?

Probably too cliche to make her unmentioned grandmother a kitsune, also. xD

Other than that, like Cheb as pointed out, even in manga the Senshi have done some pretty badass things, sometimes untransformed, the ones that come to mind are Mercury making the Chou Jigen Kuukan Genshutsu to protect Crown in the middle of a fight, Makoto shrugging off the brunt of millions of volts (which left ordinary people nearby crisped) when Kunzite cut those powerlines, Ami finding a broken pipe by 'dousing', Rei creating an ofuda from thin-air when trapped in the mirror house with Tigerseye, and Venus creating a giant (person-sized) ofuda when Rei got possessed also from thin air, which pissed Rei off for stealing her shtick. :lol:

Even in the anime I remember Rei pulling a 'kage bunshin'-esque move with her ofuda, where she threw one, and it multiplied into god knows how many.
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