Sailor powers and devices

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Postby Seraphim » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:39 pm

Zwzn wrote:Is this with or without the Silver plot device that seemingly breaks all the rules like it's counterpart Chaos?

If it was with the Silver Crystal then it wasn't really Usagi doing it.


Without, she just 'flared her aura', as it where.

And why wouldn't be? By that time in the manga it wasn't the 'Ginzuishou' any more, but the Silver Moon Crystal, Usagi's Sailor Crystal.
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:47 pm

FOG3 wrote:Having a problem understanding the lingo?

"Nuking it" is analogous to the common comment about having to kill the engineers to get something into production. The implication is you're obsessing so much on the problem you're rendering yourself unable to solve it and thus need to take a step back. The actual phrasing is a kind of a friendly intraservice rivalry between communities, the Nukes being one I was ultimately only a yes from the Admiral of Naval Reactors away from being. So I'd say I'm cleared to use it.

Now that we're done with exposition on something you should have been able to infer enough of from the usage, stow the attitude.

I have no attitude to stow. I was simply stating a fact that remains true, because continuing along without addressing it wouldn't allow the discussion to continue without fallacies mucking it up. While I'd love to show you some attitude, frankly I don't think it's worth getting in trouble over.

That said, all that you did was try to split hairs on an imaginary circumstance: imaginary because I'm not nuking it. The fact that I made this topic, to draw in outside input and discussion, is proof enough of that. And that I considered Zwzn's ideas in my last post also drives the point home.

So, instead of focusing your assumptions and opinions in my direction, why not continue contributing to what actually matters in this topic, or not post at all?

Now that that's out of the way...

Zwzn wrote:It just seems like a lot of the things claimed can't be verified.

"Seems" is the key word there, indeed. I would guess that it would depend on exactly what we're talking about in the series. But, as far as I can tell, the last two chapters in the manga pretty much explain everything that would need to be known about star seeds. And yet, throughout the whole series, we don't get much information about the technologies, aside from a few demonstrations of what they do. So it's a matter of finding out what role the technology can play without doing what the star seeds already do.

I haven't thought of anymore ideas since I've been focusing on writing fan-fiction, lately. ^^;

Well Princess Serenity, and Usagi seem to have no combat training, but Sailor moon seems to know how to fight at least better then Usagi and Princess Serenity.

That's probably due to experience in her Sailor Moon form. Since her civilian form doesn't have the power and speed that she has as Sailor Moon. And, by experience, I mean that she didn't start out displaying any real skill at fighting. In fact, I can't recall a time (in the manga) when she did more than stand and use one of her projectile attacks. (Although there could have been an exception or two.) Other than that, she seems to have no problem running and jumping; though that's no real feat since it's just a more extreme form of what she can already do as Usagi. XD;;

Is this with or without the Silver plot device that seemingly breaks all the rules like it's counterpart Chaos?

If it was with the Silver Crystal then it wasn't really Usagi doing it.

I can't say that I can recall her using the ginzuishou without either: one, becoming Sailor Moon; or two, taking on her princess and neo-queen forms. Since she took neither form at the time, I can only assume that it was her own power. Although, even if she did tap into some of the ginzuishou's power, her heart wasn't exactly in a condition to use much of it. However, Chibi-Chibi managed to ward her away without transforming, so... Yeah. :?

The one thing that is confusing me most of all, right now, is that the senshi's final forms (other than Usagi, Chibi-Usa and Mamoru) come from other sources instead of technology. They either get it from their guardians, and/or from someone else. (Venus received hers from Artemis, Mars from her two crows, and Saturn provided for all of the outer senshi.) And I have no way of telling whether they magically appeared, or if they're even more advanced technology than the pens and compacts. ;/

EDIT:

Seraphim wrote:And why wouldn't be? By that time in the manga it wasn't the 'Ginzuishou' any more, but the Silver Moon Crystal, Usagi's Sailor Crystal.

The problem with that is, if that did happen, then she'd die without it. But she's able to give it to her daughter in the future, to use as her own, without dying. Star seeds provide the existence of everything, after all.
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Postby Zwzn » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:07 am

Crescent Pulsar wrote: That's probably due to experience in her Sailor Moon form. Since her civilian form doesn't have the power and speed that she has as Sailor Moon. And, by experience, I mean that she didn't start out displaying any real skill at fighting. In fact, I can't recall a time (in the manga) when she did more than stand and use one of her projectile attacks. (Although there could have been an exception or two.) Other than that, she seems to have no problem running and jumping; though that's no real feat since it's just a more extreme form of what she can already do as Usagi. XD;;

Usagi gets bad grades in gym class(and everything else it seems) during the Beryl arc in the anime at least, but can somehow fight just fine just after transforming into Sailor Moon for the first time.

It should also be noted that Sailor moon can ice skate, and Princess Serenity did ice skate, but Usagi can't ice skate in the anime at least.

It's the shoes I tell ya.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: "Seems" is the key word there, indeed. I would guess that it would depend on exactly what we're talking about in the series. But, as far as I can tell, the last two chapters in the manga pretty much explain everything that would need to be known about star seeds. And yet, throughout the whole series, we don't get much information about the technologies, aside from a few demonstrations of what they do. So it's a matter of finding out what role the technology can play without doing what the star seeds already do.

I haven't thought of anymore ideas since I've been focusing on writing fan-fiction, lately. ^^;

I don't consider any source, but Sailor Mercury to be trust worthy.

I believe talk is cheap, and even the characters who can be trusted have shown them selves to have poor memories. The Sailor Senshi where all warriors, and warriors don't need to know the nitty gritty, and it does not help that the Sailors and those they fight always seem to be missing large peaces of information. That is why I think every claim needs to be verified.

Crescent Pulsar wrote:I can't say that I can recall her using the ginzuishou without either: one, becoming Sailor Moon; or two, taking on her princess and neo-queen forms. Since she took neither form at the time, I can only assume that it was her own power. Although, even if she did tap into some of the ginzuishou's power, her heart wasn't exactly in a condition to use much of it. However, Chibi-Chibi managed to ward her away without transforming, so... Yeah.

Doesn't Usagi get attacked by one of Galaxia's hench-wenches, and the crystal in her broach drives the animate away?

Crescent Pulsar wrote: The one thing that is confusing me most of all, right now, is that the senshi's final forms (other than Usagi, Chibi-Usa and Mamoru) come from other sources instead of technology. They either get it from their guardians, and/or from someone else. (Venus received hers from Artemis, Mars from her two crows, and Saturn provided for all of the outer senshi.) And I have no way of telling whether they magically appeared, or if they're even more advanced technology than the pens and compacts. ;/

You just named one of the reasons I hate Uranus and Neptune.

The gear just modifies it's self or is modified by the power sources to deal with more power.

Seraphim wrote: And why wouldn't be? By that time in the manga it wasn't the 'Ginzuishou' any more, but the Silver Moon Crystal, Usagi's Sailor Crystal.


Crescent Pulsar wrote: The problem with that is, if that did happen, then she'd die without it. But she's able to give it to her daughter in the future, to use as her own, without dying. Star seeds provide the existence of everything, after all.

If memory serves me well, wasn't Sailor moon only planed to go to the dark Moon arc, and the writer had a hard time keeping track of her own canon? Wouldn't that explain a huge amount of plot holes?
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:14 am

Zwzn wrote:Usagi gets bad grades in gym class(and everything else it seems) during the Beryl arc in the anime at least, but can somehow fight just fine just after transforming into Sailor Moon for the first time.

If you can consider an inability to do more than try to escape from mind-controlled people, and getting injured in the process, fighting ability. All that she did was wail, which incidentally rendered the people unconscious, and then did nothing but toss her tiara to call it a day. In the anime I know that she kicks and punches on occasion, but not with any real skill, beyond what she would have shown as Usagi. It just might seem like it since she has more power when transformed.

It should also be noted that Sailor moon can ice skate, and Princess Serenity did ice skate, but Usagi can't ice skate in the anime at least.

It's the shoes I tell ya.

If my memory serves me right (and it doesn't as often as I'd like), I think that episode came after the one where she regained her memories. But, even if that's the case, the anime isn't as consistent as the manga is (or, at least, leaves more things simply unexplained).

Either way, I doubt it's the shoes. ;p I mean, as far as the anime is concerned, it was a convenient aid that rarely ever happens for other times they could use the extra skill or knowledge of something.

I don't consider any source, but Sailor Mercury to be trust worthy.

I believe talk is cheap, and even the characters who can be trusted have shown them selves to have poor memories. The Sailor Senshi where all warriors, and warriors don't need to know the nitty gritty, and it does not help that the Sailors and those they fight always seem to be missing large peaces of information. That is why I think every claim needs to be verified.

Most of the sources of information comes from characters other than the senshi, and usually from people who know what they're doing, talking about, or both. Both Galaxia and Cosmos, for instance, are reliable sources. In part because of the fact that the author gives what information they think the reader needs to know. Sometimes they can be misleading, or, in this case, inform the reader what they need to know to understand how and why a story is coming to an end.

It's unlikely that Mercury knows much more about certain particulars than the other senshi do. I know the anime gives her more than just a visor to scan things with, but even the mini-computer doesn't provide her with knowledge about star seeds and the like. Well, as far as I know.

Doesn't Usagi get attacked by one of Galaxia's hench-wenches, and the crystal in her broach drives the animate away?

That doesn't happen in the manga, so it must be from the anime. The question is: does it happen more than once, to at least show a possible consistency, or was it just a one-time thing that just happens to occur only once?

You just named one of the reasons I hate Uranus and Neptune.

The gear just modifies it's self or is modified by the power sources to deal with more power.

Hm? Do you mean like how the Dragonball Z characters just happen to come by more power to deal with progressively stronger enemies?

If memory serves me well, wasn't Sailor moon only planed to go to the dark Moon arc, and the writer had a hard time keeping track of her own canon? Wouldn't that explain a huge amount of plot holes?

Possibly. She pretty much disregards the rules of time travel, that she established with the dark moon arc, in the final arc. So it's possible that the transformation devices become more of a superficial image than the technological marvels that they're displayed as at the very beginning of the series. In fact, as the series progresses (at least in the manga), the technology at their disposal, including their secret control room under the arcade, becomes less and less relevant.
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Postby Seraphim » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:14 am

Crescent Pulsar wrote:The problem with that is, if that did happen, then she'd die without it. But she's able to give it to her daughter in the future, to use as her own, without dying. Star seeds provide the existence of everything, after all.


Actually, mangawise she doesn't give it to ChibiUsa, ChibiUsa 'makes' her own.

If you look closely after Pluto dies, you can see the newly awakened ChibiMoon holding one (that she cried out), then Venus holding the past and present Ginzuishou.
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Postby Zwzn » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:12 am

Crescent Pulsar wrote:
Zwzn wrote:Usagi gets bad grades in gym class(and everything else it seems) during the Beryl arc in the anime at least, but can somehow fight just fine just after transforming into Sailor Moon for the first time.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: you can consider an inability to do more than try to escape from mind-controlled people, and getting injured in the process, fighting ability. All that she did was wail, which incidentally rendered the people unconscious, and then did nothing but toss her tiara to call it a day. In the anime I know that she kicks and punches on occasion, but not with any real skill, beyond what she would have shown as Usagi. It just might seem like it since she has more power when transformed.

I would call going from I can't play simple sports to i am a o.k. fighter a big improvement.

It should also be noted that Sailor moon can ice skate, and Princess Serenity did ice skate, but Usagi can't ice skate in the anime at least.

It's the shoes I tell ya.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: my memory serves me right (and it doesn't as often as I'd like), I think that episode came after the one where she regained her memories. But, even if that's the case, the anime isn't as consistent as the manga is (or, at least, leaves more things simply unexplained).

Either way, I doubt it's the shoes. ;p I mean, as far as the anime is concerned, it was a convenient aid that rarely ever happens for other times they could use the extra skill or knowledge of something.

The anime Sailor Senshi never seem to get all their past memories back.

Luna explained that ice skating was very popular in the Moon Kingdom, and that the Princess liked to skate, but Usagi can't skate. As Sailor moon Usagi's boot become ice skates, and Usagi can skate.

How much you do want to bet that Princess Serenity could have had had special foot ware so she wasn't a clumsy?

I don't consider any source, but Sailor Mercury to be trust worthy.

I believe talk is cheap, and even the characters who can be trusted have shown them selves to have poor memories. The Sailor Senshi where all warriors, and warriors don't need to know the nitty gritty, and it does not help that the Sailors and those they fight always seem to be missing large peaces of information. That is why I think every claim needs to be verified.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: of the sources of information comes from characters other than the senshi, and usually from people who know what they're doing, talking about, or both. Both Galaxia and Cosmos, for instance, are reliable sources. In part because of the fact that the author gives what information they think the reader needs to know. Sometimes they can be misleading, or, in this case, inform the reader what they need to know to understand how and why a story is coming to an end.

Could you give some examples of good sources? I'm only coming up with the villains as some what trust worthy.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: unlikely that Mercury knows much more about certain particulars than the other senshi do. I know the anime gives her more than just a visor to scan things with, but even the mini-computer doesn't provide her with knowledge about star seeds and the like. Well, as far as I know.

Sailor mercury has a handy dandy little computer that should have all the important information the Silver M. every gathered, but it seems the Silver m. was dam ignorant about star seeds, dream mirrors, heart crystal, their own weapons...

The reason I would trust Ami is because she seems to care about knowledge and facts. She is a scholar, and no other character is like that. Most of the other characters only know what they have been told by others.

Doesn't Usagi get attacked by one of Galaxia's hench-wenches, and the crystal in her broach drives the animate away?


Crescent Pulsar wrote: doesn't happen in the manga, so it must be from the anime. The question is: does it happen more than once, to at least show a possible consistency, or was it just a one-time thing that just happens to occur only once?

I thought Usagi was at a Three Lights and there is an attack, and the animate grabbed the broach, but was driven off by a blast of energy.

just named one of the reasons I hate Uranus and Neptune.

The gear just modifies it's self or is modified by the power sources to deal with more power.

Crescent Pulsar wrote: ? Do you mean like how the Dragonball Z characters just happen to come by more power to deal with progressively stronger enemies?

More like rather then going boom from being over charged battery they adapt to deal with more power, or maybe they are just improved in some way.

My reasons for disliking Uranus and Neptune is they do extremely stupid things, but never seem to get called on it.

If memory serves me well, wasn't Sailor moon only planed to go to the dark Moon arc, and the writer had a hard time keeping track of her own canon? Wouldn't that explain a huge amount of plot holes?

Crescent Pulsar wrote: She pretty much disregards the rules of time travel, that she established with the dark moon arc, in the final arc. So it's possible that the transformation devices become more of a superficial image than the technological marvels that they're displayed as at the very beginning of the series. In fact, as the series progresses (at least in the manga), the technology at their disposal, including their secret control room under the arcade, becomes less and less relevant.
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:36 am

Seraphim wrote:Actually, mangawise she doesn't give it to ChibiUsa, ChibiUsa 'makes' her own.

If you look closely after Pluto dies, you can see the newly awakened ChibiMoon holding one (that she cried out), then Venus holding the past and present Ginzuishou.

*Looks*

*Blink-blink*

Doesn't seem like it. Usagi takes them from Diamond, then we see Usagi holding one and Venus the other. When it appears for Chibi-Usa, we no longer see it with Venus, and there's no suggestion that there's a third. So it must have simply been transmitted from Venus' possession and into her tear.

But, in the end, it's a fact that the ginzuishou is a special, one-of-a-kind sailor crystal. There was only two because it was the same one from different time periods.

(Zwzn: I just wanted to note that, whatever you're doing to quote things now, it's cutting off the beginning of each one. ^^; )

Zwzn wrote:I would call going from I can't play simple sports to i am a o.k. fighter a big improvement.

But it wasn't instantaneous. And I wouldn't call her an OK fighter by any measure, either. She can do a lot of basic things that other people without training can do. It may just be that her ability to maneuver and coordinate her body improves when she actually has to be serious about what she's doing. She doesn't exactly have much reason or motivation to be serious about sports, for instance.

The anime Sailor Senshi never seem to get all their past memories back.

Luna explained that ice skating was very popular in the Moon Kingdom, and that the Princess liked to skate, but Usagi can't skate. As Sailor moon Usagi's boot become ice skates, and Usagi can skate.

How much you do want to bet that Princess Serenity could have had had special foot ware so she wasn't a clumsy?

She wasn't clumsy in her past life, as far as I know. I think it's more likely that the anime doesn't put as much thought into certain things because it's not really important, beyond whatever kind of entertainment they're trying to deliver to the audience.

Could you give some examples of good sources? I'm only coming up with the villains as some what trust worthy.

Well, I already mentioned two good ones (Galaxia and Cosmos), since they provide a lot of information about star seeds and the galaxy cauldron. There aren't many others that provide as much information, but still inform us enough of what we need to know at the time (as it was no doubt the author's intent). Both Snow Princess Kaguya and Nephrenia each offer information about the past, for instance. Usagi's mother, the first queen of the moon kingdom, offers some tidbits, as well. (But it depends on whether we're talking about the anime or the manga. The manga tends to have more depth and sense to it, in my opinion.)

Information by word isn't necessarily bad information. It all depends on the context. A common way that an author shares information with the reader, that they think they should know, is done via conversations between characters.

Sailor mercury has a handy dandy little computer that should have all the important information the Silver M. every gathered, but it seems the Silver m. was dam ignorant about star seeds, dream mirrors, heart crystal, their own weapons...

The reason I would trust Ami is because she seems to care about knowledge and facts. She is a scholar, and no other character is like that. Most of the other characters only know what they have been told by others.

Pluto is probably a better source of knowledge than Mercury. Mercury is shown to look up to her, in particular (out of the outer senshi, I mean), in the manga. She's lived through many more ages, after all. Well, I don't know how she can learn much from staying at her post in the fourth dimension, but it's more than intimated that she's knowledgeable about things. Although the outer senshi are pretty much shown to be "advanced" versions of the inner senshi, as well as in their civilian forms. And then, later, it's done again with the starlights, with them being more "advanced" than the outer senshi. It's quite silly, if you ask me.

I thought Usagi was at a Three Lights and there is an attack, and the animate grabbed the broach, but was driven off by a blast of energy.

Is that the only time it ever happened in the anime, though? I mean, I'm sure it was taken with no problem from other baddies. Diamond comes immediately to mind. There's another time, in the anime, but I can't remember when or by who it was done by.

(You quoted something without a response after this one. I'm guessing that was a mistake?)
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