Is Usagi really, in fact, the senshi of the moon?

Discuss the Sailor Moon series in this forum.

Is Usagi really the senshi of the moon?

Poll ended at Sun May 17, 2009 12:56 pm

Yes, of course. She is the one called Sailor Moon! :O
4
9%
Yes, of course. She is the one called Sailor Moon! :O
4
9%
She isn't Sailor Moon. Curse her for such trickery!
5
11%
She isn't Sailor Moon. Curse her for such trickery!
5
11%
Cop out: Whether she is or not, she still represents Earth's moon, so... technically she is still Sailor Moon, in function.
13
30%
Cop out: Whether she is or not, she still represents Earth's moon, so... technically she is still Sailor Moon, in function.
13
30%
 
Total votes : 44

Is Usagi really, in fact, the senshi of the moon?

Postby Crescent Pulsar » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:56 pm

Rather than have an argument, which will no doubt happen, I've decided to make a poll so people can just state their opinion, in light of, or not, the following information below. And I've been considerate enough to give you a cop out option in the poll, so... ;/

(The following information is derived from the manga.)

1: Usagi's mother came from another galaxy millions of years ago and, with it, the Ginzuishou. (Based on statements made by Snow Princess Kaguya and Queen Nephrenia.)

2: Usagi's mother said that one of their duties was to protect the Ginzuishou. (Statement made when she was a hologram.)

3: The life of Usagi, her mother and her daughter don't depend on it to live, like the other senshi and their sailor crystals. They can give it away, or have it removed from them, without vanishing. It simply operates too differently from them. (Examples of these throughout the manga.)

4: Princess Kaguya recognizes the white light from the Ginzuishou as the ruler of the galaxy, not the moon. (Mentioned before her demise.)

5: Question: why would Earth's moon, out of every single stellar object in the whole galaxy, be so much more significant than the rest?

6: While princess Kakyuu refers to the Ginzuishou as a sailor crystal, there's no proof if that's true, and doesn't explain the question brought up in #5.

7: And while it seems that Mamoru's golden crystal is similar to the Ginzuishou in nature, and may even be a counterpart (note the gold and silver theme, and how no other sailor crystal appears like, or is used like, theirs), he still "dies" (vanishes) when it's taken from him.

8: While there's evidence that there can be senshi for a solar system (the Starlights), as well as asteroids and dwarf planets (the Amazoness quartet), there are no senshi for a moon, beyond the one in question. (Mars' crows come from the planet Kronos, and weren't senshi for its moons.) It could be just a coincidence, but it's worth considering, I suppose.

9: Finally, there's Sailor Cosmos, who's suggested to be what Sailor moon becomes in the distant future. Whether that's factual or not, Sailor Cosmos could still transform using "Chibi Chibi crystal power," rather than something like "Cosmos crystal power." This might suggest that Usagi is only a senshi of the moon in title alone, rather than in reality, since both her appearance and title are mutable.

And there you have it. Have fun.
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Postby Rei-chan » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:14 am

Given your arguments and what I know of the series, I would have to say that she isn't Sailor Moon by those definitions. Regardless of these anyway, she should be known as Sailor Luna rather than moon besides as moon is such a generic term.
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Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:22 am

Another reason for her to be Sailor Luna is because there never would have been a Moon Senshi if it wasn't for Luna's incompetence after her mental scramble fluff freezedry in suspended animation.
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:37 am

Rei-chan wrote:Given your arguments and what I know of the series, I would have to say that she isn't Sailor Moon by those definitions. Regardless of these anyway, she should be known as Sailor Luna rather than moon besides as moon is such a generic term.

So she could be as powerful as she is because "moon" is generic, and she could represent every moon?

Spokavriel wrote:Another reason for her to be Sailor Luna is because there never would have been a Moon Senshi if it wasn't for Luna's incompetence after her mental scramble fluff freezedry in suspended animation.

What incompetence, and what mental scramble? I'm not sure what you're referring to. :O
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Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:46 am

If Luna hadn't forgotten who the Princess actually was there never would have been a Sailor Moon.
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Postby Nekomata-sensei » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:26 am

My guess is that she isn't actually the senshi for the moon, nor a senshi in the normal sense, but more of a sort of 'super senshi' one who represents the entire universe and all the senshi within it, through the Ginsuzishou, as evidenced by the reality warping powers she displays with it. On top of this, her star seed and the Ginsuzishou are almost one and the same, and later become so, and her soul and body were forged by Queen Serenity with the Ginsuzishou's powers.

The reason she becomes sailor moon is a bit complex, in my estimation. The brooch she was given by Luna was probably a weak, generic transformation device, one that didn't need to be customized to her power. It wasn't strong enough to help her unlock her true strength, she'd have to reach that by other means, and partly herself, but it was enough to utilize the magical energy she had. The brooch lacked the power to let her draw on her universal powers, but was designed to awaken senshi, and as she had a connection to the moon forged by making it the capitol of the Silver Millennium, and her royal symbol, it managed to draw on the miniscule in comparison to her connection to the entire universe, connection to Earth's Moon, even though such normally wouldn't have a senshi. Luna didn't realize this was weird since her memories were so fragmented.

In effect, she really is drawing on the moon's power in her earlier transformations, but making up the power difference that makes her the heaviest hitter among the senshi with her own personal magic reserves, storing up power from the moon, and the closer proximity to the moon than the other senshi have to their planets.
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Postby Lord Aries Greymon » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:56 am

I'm taking the cop-out vote.

I agree with the mentioned points of others.


However, my (current) stance is as follows: She claims to be the senshi of Earth's Moon. Thus, as there are no contenders for the same title, she is the senshi of Earth's Moon.
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Postby Rei-chan » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:10 am

I suppose that is one way of taking what I said, Crescent. I was merely pointing out that the Earth's moon has a proper name rather than simply moon and for her to be its senshi she should be named after it like the others are rather than something so generic. And I say that fully knowing that officially in astronomical writing Earth's moon is just Moon but I find that a bit unlikely a kept convention in the sense of space traveling and magic tossing peoples.
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Postby WG_Writer » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:02 am

Here is some food for thought:

The moon is too big to properly be Earth's moon by current earth formation models. and if not for the early apollo missions it was thought to be a captured object.

The currently popular belief is that another foreign object collided with proto earth creating the moon. So I say she IS sailor moon, its just her mother brought her own moon (planet) with her and started all the woman driver jokes. (yeah I know bad)
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Postby FOG3 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:20 am

I put forward the transformation locket. The original has four little gems surrounding the little crescent moon insignia in the center. It's arguable the implication is that Moon's original setup harnesses power of the Inner Senshi to operate, which the gems signify.

Sailor V, which is canon enough, has her using a locket she has to "charge" in moon light in order for it to stay functional. During this period she's thought to be a subordinate of instead of the Princess of Venus. The obivious implication is something is supposed to be beaming power, probably from an installation on the Moon, that makes it work regardless.

The implication is the Silver Millenium had the technology to hook up stuff in parallel and more or less be able to fake it. From there one can argue Usagi simply developped the effective steal power ability as a innate property, which is basically her power.

Given this kind of technology base it's also perfectly reasonable they ripped the Ginzuishou from something else, ala Galaxia's actions. That while not unreasonable put the Lunarians in a light some do not prefer. Of course, anyone that thinks though the consequences upon which the statement "with great power comes great responsibility" with Usagi's excess of the former and lack of basis for the latter pretty much already go there.

Moon is like Earth, it's not so much generic as we decided to use the linguistic reference frame of what we know well. Kind of like how all paper tissues are called kleenex, despite Kleenex not making them all. Kleenex just happened to be first to market, so initially people related it to that and it eventually ended up ingrained. It's a valid part of how the language is used.

Not to mention things like vandal, gothic, and otherwise. The Vandals, Visigoths, and otherwise didn't choose generic names. Generic words arose in reference to public perception of them, with the Goth name having perhaps the wildest ride across history of all.
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Postby KonokoHasano » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:31 am

It sounds a lot as if the cop out option would fit it best.


On a related note, I'm currently feeling weirded out that I somehow missed most of this info about originally being from another Galaxy and all even though I've read the entire manga.

Then again, I didn't read the Snow Princess Kaguya chapters and skipped those, so that's probably a reason.

I need to go back and try and find the parts that mention that. >.<
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:10 am

Wargiver:

And why, I ask you, would she be driving a planet/moon to get around? XD

FOG3:

So, basically, you're saying not the senshi of the moon, but nonetheless takes up that title? (I was going to correct you on some stuff about Sailor V, but I figured that wouldn't interfere your point, which I think I got. The technology is definitely present to make this sort of thing a possibility.)
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Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:14 pm

If you have the level of power needed to cross galaxies a planetary mass is one way to keep sufficient atmosphere without having to bother with wasting as much energy on containment fields etc. And if you can control gravity (Somewhat seen in an accident with Chibi-Usa and her Time Key. If it can be an accidental side effect why couldn't there be technology from the same people that did it intentionally?) Having the mass to adjust the gravity on it could be a more natural way for them to travel.
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Postby Crescent Pulsar » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:57 pm

Not necessarily. For one, Princess Kakyuu, the Starlights, Eternal sailor Moon and Chibi Chibi were able to travel through space to the Sagittarius Zero Star as they were. In fact, on several occasions they have no trouble in the space environment. Either way, if that could be done, it wouldn't make much sense if she couldn't avoid running into a planet. Plus, she could, say, travel through a worm hole, and get there in no time.

But there is an alternative. It's a fact that there are remnants of other galaxies that the Milky Way has consumed, and one theory was proposed that our solar system was from one of those galaxies. So you could suggest that her native galaxy got mixed up with the Milky Way, and she found her way to our galaxy that way.
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Postby Spokavriel » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:43 pm

I was thinking more of if she brought some Non-senshi along. Like the Mau for instance. But that's just making suppositions with nothing to go on at all.
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