Do the outer senshi trust the inner senshi?

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Do the outer senshi trust the inner senshi?

Postby whatever » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:14 pm

Well this is probably a weird/dumb topic but I have always left with the doubt if the Outer senshi by the end of the anime trust more in the power of the inner guardians of Sailor Moon since in the Super season they seem to thought of them as if they were obstacles in there way, In the Nehelenia sub-arc in stars when they work together could be taken as a development between both groups??

and for the manga readers, How is the relationship between the Outers and the Inners here?
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Re: Do the outer senshi trust the inner senshi?

Postby Daniel Jess Gibson » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:37 am

whatever wrote:Well this is probably a weird/dumb topic but I have always left with the doubt if the Outer senshi by the end of the anime trust more in the power of the inner guardians of Sailor Moon since in the Super season they seem to thought of them as if they were obstacles in there way, In the Nehelenia sub-arc in stars when they work together could be taken as a development between both groups??

and for the manga readers, How is the relationship between the Outers and the Inners here?

I don't think they do, first of all they are High School students (or above) and the Inners are Junior High students, and I don't know about you, but at my High School, Junior High students were considered by some to be subhuman.

There is also the difference in philosophies, the Inners would fit in perfectly with My Little Pony, the Outers think they would fit in to a Noir novel. A comment from TVtropes on this: Haruka Ten'ou and Michiru Kai'ou from Sailor Moon: Sailors Uranus and Neptune believe that victory cannot be attained without some horrible angsty sacrifice that only they have the moral strength to make. The idea that The Power Of Love And Justice could triumph with minimal unpleasantness seems to offend them on some deep level. Link: A very different attitude Contrast Discworld's Death in the Hogfather to the Outers' actions and attitudes. He knew the stakes and was willing to do whatever was necessary.

Frankly, if it really meant saving the world (and getting the appropriate rewards and adulation) I can easily see Robert B. Parker's Spenser and Hawke donning tutus, dancing among flowers singing about friendship and love. Of course Hawke would later shoot anyone who mentioned it to him, but there's a difference between really doing anything to save the word, and being willing to do despicable things to save the world.

Pluto seemed to want to resurrect Serenity, and wants to force Usagi into that role, what Usagi wants is immaterial.

In most cases the Outers are unwilling to share their plans with the Inners until those plans are already locked in and can't be altered. Killing Saturn is a key point, if they'd talked with the others, they might have pointed out that
a) Killing your number two heavy hitter when fighting the dragon is not such a swift idea
b) Galaxia has been around a long time and somebody probably already tried and failed to accomplish this, so Galaxia has defenses

But they were too wound up in the idea of killing a trusting child, saving the universe and dying in each others arms (in that order) to think straight.

So no, they don't trust them, or believe in their worldview/philosophy. I think the Outers tolerate the Inner, but try to work around them to 'Do what needs to be done!' Even if it patently won't work and is unnecessary.
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Postby Cheb » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:52 pm

i remember the scene from one episode, all outers in a car watching sunset, they are going on a vacation, and they state outright that the world is in the right hands (meaning the inners), so they aren't needed.

Also, some of the ovas (?) for the 4th season where they are in a hotel (?) aand fight some puppets of that wretched circus. "Should we go help Iners? No, it's their fight and they are strong enough, they'll cope" -- something along these lines.

They changed their mind in the end because in their philosophy is that only attaining the end result means anything (the ends justify the means, do I spell this properly?). SM+inners attained that result while the outers themselves failed, so in their eyes SM was right where they were wrong. Their losing their duel versus SM only strengthened that point.
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Postby Frog » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:32 pm

The Outers seem to be usually depicted in two groups in the anime. There's Haruka and Michiru, and then there's Setsuna and Hotaru. They all share some similarities, and some differences.

The main similarity is that they all feel that "sacrifice" is necessary. You won't achieve great results if you don't give something in exchange. Haruka and Michiru were willing to sacrifice others in their quest for the Talismans. Setsuna and Hotaru were willing to sacrifice their lives to save others. Uasgi, however, espouses an attitude that says "no one has to suffer, no one has to sacrifice". In the end, it is her unshakable resolve that gets results, not the Outers need to sacrifice.

However, there are some differences. For Haruka and Michiru, the ends justifies the means. Setsuna and Hotaru do not share this quality with them. Towards the end of Stars, Haruka and Michiru do not hesitate to betray Setsuna and Hotaru for a chance to double-cross Galaxia. Setsuna and Hotaru would never pretend to betray a team-mate to gain the upper hand; Haruka and Michiru will not hesitate to do it.

In the end, however, they all share one more characteristic in common by the end of the anime: they're all more than willing to go to great lengths to defend Usagi and, if necessary, to die for her.

This is a quality that they share with the Inner Senshi.

The scene that Cheb described is, if I recall right, from the last episode of Stars, where the Outers have all come to the conclusion that their "sacrifices are necessary" attitude just doesn't work (in the world of Sailor Moon) and that the Inner Senshi are more than capable of defending the world.

Manga-wise I'm not entirely certain of the dynamics of the Sailor Senshi. I seem to recall, however, that they all look up to Venus as their "field commander" and will obey her orders in a fight...
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
There are songs of hope too
I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
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Postby Vilkath » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:52 am

It is not really their fault entirely either, unlike the Inners who gradualy eased into their duties and basicaly remember nothing about their past the Outers get thrust into hard choices almost imediately.

Plus I have to say Haruka and Michiru's relationship played a large role in their harsh world views. They are lesbians, an unpopular pairing in some the most polite circles, let alone a more traditionalist Japan add that to they barely found each other before being made sailor scouts well it's a recipe for trouble.

I would say a lot of their let every one die additude stems from this, they want to be happy and they see Crystal tokyo as a means to and end. If a few people from a society they are not really connected to have to die for them to be together so what?

Usagi's personalty definetly does not help matters either in the begining either. They are recruited to fight evil at any cost and then find out their great leader is a naive ditz of a school girl? it must of driven in some extreem doubts early on if their sacrifices were worth it.

I think in the end they do agree that their ends justify the means additude doesn't always work, but I also think the outers especialy Haruka and Michiru have enough doubts that Usagi's fluffy bunny way will always work either. So they agree to leave the inners alone, but don't imediately convert to their ways either because they still feel some times harsher methods are needed.
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