Senshi vs Government: Discussion Thread

[Comartemis]

What I'm really assuming would be that the energy manipulation used by the senshi and their means of teleportation effects the universe in away that technology will eventually be able to track or at least disrupt. To a lesser degree I'm assuming that their form of teleportation isn't fundamentally different than from how humanity understands it.

Alright, then consider this; my Spamville character teleports by stepping into a subspace pocket similar to the ones the Senshi are sometimes stated to have and reemerging wherever in the universe (or outside it) he wishes to be. If that subspace pocket is for my own personal use and is completely inaccessable to others, how could my teleportation be detected?

[Tovath]

Alright, then consider this; my Spamville character teleports by stepping into a subspace pocket similar to the ones the Senshi are sometimes stated to have and reemerging wherever in the universe (or outside it) he wishes to be. If that subspace pocket is for my own personal use and is completely inaccessable to others, how could my teleportation be detected?

inaccessable does not undetectable

[Comartemis]

inaccessable does not equal undetectable

Perhaps not, but considering that there's no energy involved in the transfer--it wouldn't be far off the mark to say that I'm stepping through a subspace tunnel without actually making the tunnel--it would be pretty damn hard to detect unless you were scanning for life signs where they shouldn't be.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Not really, when you entered the subspace, and when you exited it, It would create some form of reaction with reality, it might not be visible but it would exist, and thus there would be some way to pick up on it even if little or no energy was expended.

[antimatterenergy]

If that subspace pocket is for my own personal use and is completely inaccessable to others, how could my teleportation be detected?

The entering and exiting of your subspace pocket could effect the universe in someway. Such as the energy release of the pocket opening/closing, tracking of the loss of mass, possibly slight alteration to local gravity fields, while inaccessible it may still be detectable, maybe possible to prevent the opening/closing of subspace pockets, collapse subspace pockets that exist, or disconnect the subspace pocket from our universe preventing reentry, etc.. Of course this is all speculation and is beyond current technology but given enough time and incentive could be possible (that is if the creation of subspace pockets is possible as opposed to other means that are similar such as alternate dimension travel, temporal travel, or folding space).

[Comartemis]

Maybe possible to prevent the opening/closing of subspace pockets, collapse subspace pockets that exist, or disconnect the subspace pocket from our universe preventing reentry, etc

Not likely; like I said, it's mine. Trying to manipulate my personal subspace pocket (and weapons locker) would be like trying to manipulate one of the Senshi's mana taps without accessing that Senshi's Star Seed.

This is getting a bit off-topic anyways. You've made your point, antimatter; sufficiently advanced tech could detect magical forms of teleportation.

[nodregah]

there's no energy involved in the transfer

This is assuming that there is no energy emitted when opening said sub-space pocket. You are tearing a hole in real-space to reach sub-space, that does take energy. Returning from that sub-space would also emit the same amount of energy, showing both an entry and exit point for sub-space, thus tracking the 'port.

[Comartemis]

*Sigh*

Alright, can we wrap this up and get back to Galaxia vs Earth?

Though for the record, there's no tearing involved; it's more like hopping into malletspace and coming out somewhere else than tearing a hole in reality.

[antimatterenergy]

Manga Galaxia vs Earth

current tech just about impossible.

Access to some of the magics of the sailormoon universe and prep time (like call a significantly powerful being to fight her similar to Pharaoh 90/Metalica or creating a power that counteracts hers like Wisemans black crystal partially countered Sailormoons crystal-at least in the anime required both hers and chibi usa's to defeat him) possible but unlikely.

Significantly advanced technology much more likely one method would be by cutting her off from her power supply (bracelets provide power and life in manga) disrupt the transfer in someway and she dies.

[FOG3]

Add in the fact that the key reason that JFK was able to negotiate an end to that crisis was the actions of Colonel Oleg Penkovsky, a Russian officer in the pay of British Intelligence. He provided the information that America needed to leverage Krushchev into backing down. He also got caught and was executed. MI-6 is not, and will probably never be in a position to infiltrate the ranks of the interstellar and interdimensional beings that compose your average SM villain.

"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you that I have signed legislation to outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
-Ronald Reagan, the man who WON the Cold War

Uh Kennedy is the one who backed down. Why are you emphasizing an agent who was just part of the effort that identified the IRBMs/MRBMs and their operational readiness? Saber rattling is perhaps a more accurate description of that incident then brinksmanship. The Soviets have a love of saber rattling you know, why just this past week they were at it again with their silly Father of All Bombs test.

Is there a point to bringing this incident up?

[bissek]

Because HUMINT is hard to obtain against an enemy that skips the saber-rattling and goes straight to the actual war the moment they introduce themselves. The activities of most SM villains were hard to notice until the moment the first MotW attacked.

Two big factors in winning a modern war are intelligence and logistics. They can infiltrate us. We can't infiltrate them. And with FTL and/or teleportation, they have the logistical advantage as well.

[FOG3]

I am going to completely ignore the insinuation that the Senshi are capable of such heinous crimes by virtue of being "elites" and further suggestions of it will recieve the same treatment.

I'm insinuating what now? Given your lack of follow up I'd say it's safe to assume that you've conceded hardware doesn't cause atrocities and those glib remarks about the Manhattan Project. You want to connect the dots that way, be my guest but I nail Senshi based on their actual past behavior when I chose to do so.

Did we get the Ginzuishou to play with for terminate Galaxia in 4000 CE project? By that time we should have developed and refined the technology for the practical application of the Grand Theory of Everything. Even if we can't render what you would consider an acceptable solution using only Grand Theory technology it wouldn't be to hard to setup a ship much like the Nadesico with the Ginzuishou, Shittenou's crystals, and any other recovered relics being used with Grand Theory technology. Given Galaxia < just the Ginzuishou she'd be SOL.

[Comartemis]

Did we get the Ginzuishou to play with for terminate Galaxia in 4000 CE project?

That depends; if Usagi and the Senshi are gone, did the ginzuishou ever appear to begin with, and if it did, is there anyone around who knows how to use the damn thing?

Given your lack of follow up I'd say it's safe to assume that you've conceded hardware doesn't cause atrocities and those glib remarks about the Manhattan Project.

I will grant that the weapons themselves do not cause problems--a stable bomb in a locked room isn't harming anyone--the problem is that you are suggesting those weapons be used against Galaxia which will have all sorts of negative reprecussions. The Ideon, the Evas, Chise, none of the tech behind them or the weapons themselves could hurt people by themselves. The problem is that that tech is going to be used, and it has the potential to fall into hands that will have no problem with using it against civilians, which is part of the reason why I'm not concerned about Usagi having possession of the ginzuishou; she doesn't fall into that category.

And a thought about that ballistic missile defense system you mentioned earlier;

We've seen anime Usagi take at least one blow that should've crippled or killed her; in the battle with Rubeus she was smashed against a solid steel bulkhead hard enough to crack it. Now I'm no physics major, but that kind of impact should've ended with a liquified spinal cord--at the least--or something equally crippling. Instead, Usagi seems to merely be stunned for a few moments, indicating that the girls have some major protection against blunt trauma and physical attacks (thus my earlier concerns about 'Senshi vs Government ends with sniper fire' are unfounded unless the girls are targeted in their civilian forms).

Now consider the disparity in power between R season anime Usagi and Stars season manga Galaxia. If you apply the same rule to the manga characters and say that they have damage reduction vs physical attacks, and you say that that DR increases in proportion to their magical strength (a reasonable deduction, I think; their magical defenses certainly seem to improve over time), then those KE rounds you mentioned earlier might give Galaxia a nasty bruise at worst.

[Heaven's Deamon]

One thing that also has to be considered is the size of the round. If you take two objects and put the same amount of force behind them, and assuming they have similar densities, then the smaller one would have a better chance of going through whatever it hit than the larger one would.

Thus, it would still be possible for sniper fire to get through a magical DR field because it would be applying all the force to a small area and thus "overload" the field's force reduction at that area where throwing the scout themself at a similar velocity might not do anything. So if the missle system uses something too big, then it's possible that the object itself or the explosion would simply "catch" Galaxia and throw her away instead of causing the intended amount of damage.

[Comartemis]

Thus, it would still be possible for sniper fire to get through a magical DR field because it would be applying all the force to a small area and thus "overload" the field's force reduction at that area where throwing the scout themself at a similar velocity might not do anything.

Good point HD. But given that we don't really know the specifics behind Senshi defensive capabilities, what if the spell/enchantment that grants them that DR is designed to compensate for such an occurance? For instance what if the defenses aren't a field at all, but a magical point-defense system like what Spamville Raleigh uses? The power behind the shield could be concentrated against a pinpoint attack like a sniper round or spread out to counter being smashed against a wall.

In that case you'd have to overwhelm the field with a volley of sniper fire, but if it isn't timed perfectly Galaxia will realize she's under attack and dodge before the field overloads, and then you've not only ruined the element of surprise, you've also probably managed to piss her off.

And if the field is just plain stronger than the force of the projectile being fired at it, you'll get an armor piercing round that just bounces off Usagi's forehead, as well as giving Rei some ammunition for the next time she tells Usagi that she's thickheaded.