Senshi vs Government: Discussion Thread

[Comartemis]

I thought I'd move this discussion out of the fic search thread and into a thread of it's own. Continuing from the last post:

Actually, I did. That's a short-term solution though, and only IF the castles are habitable. I'm thinking long-term. Imagine being stuck in that castle for the rest of your life, with only a few other small families for company. And nothing to do.

And what if they can't use the castles for whatever reason? If their families aren't threatened, then they can split up and (possibly) make new identities for themselves. If they stay together, that makes it that much easier to get caught. But that effectively breaks up the team. And if they have to protect their families too? It would be very difficult to hide them, and do more than short-term survival, without the government's help.

If it's just Japan that's after them, they can go to another country and try to make a living there. But that means a whole new culture, with even less to start out with, since they'd have to leave everything behind. And that's IF the other country lets them. If not, it means hiding from that government too. Multiplied once again if families are involved.

If it's some shadow organization ruling the world from behind the scenes, then the castles are the only option, for the surviving Senshi to bring any surviving family members.

The castles are definitely habitable. At the end of the first season manga, the ruins of the Moon Kingdom were restored to their former glory and Usagi had the chance to return to the moon and live there. She chose to remain on Earth, naturally, but the castles are obviously habitable; the Outers visit theirs in the Stars manga shortly before Galaxia catches up with them and 'recruits' them.

And I can name all sorts of things the families could do in the castles. Firstly, their lives have just been ruined by the government (or the people controlling it); they'll probably want to get back at those people, and so will throw their support behind their children. A castle like the Lunar Palace would probably have a really big library, a veritable treasure trove of information for those who value it.

First, who are the Senshi taking with them?

Usagi: Ikuko, Kenji, Shingo, maybe the Osaka family as well.
Mamoru: Orphan.
Ami: Mom, maybe dad, depends on whether or not he's still alive.
Rei: Grandpa Hino and Yuuichiro. Dad the Negligent Politician can take a hike.
Makoto: Orphan.
Minako: Mom and dad.
Hotaru: Manga canon Hotaru is an orphan after S. Anime canon, just the Professor.
Haruka, Michiru, Setsuna: So far as we know, no existing family.

I can see Shingo having all sorts of fun learning about real magic even if he can't use it, same goes for the Professor, and Doc Mizuno would have a field day learning about magical and non-magical healing methods of the Silver Millennium. Ikuko is a housewife, I think, so she could just go about her normal routine with a few adjustments, as could Minako's mom. The dads, Yuuichiro and Grandpa Hino are the only problems.

*EDIT*
As far as the long term is concerned, if it gets really bad, the families could be shut into stasis capsules until the crisis passes, like Luna and Artemis were at the end of the SM, but that's definitely a last resort.

[FOG3]

You know I have one major problem with this line of thought. Seems as how it is steeped in manga canon we're also dealing with canon where they can bust planets by the second arc, and wiped out every last terrestrial lifeform to take out probably less then 1 million soul sucked body snatchers before repopulating Terra Firma with "purified" lifeforms that are presumed to be clones of the afore mentioned exterminated lifeforms by the third.

Those girls have a knack for the particularly heavy handed approach in manga, and the sheer capability to render mere governments an irrelevant threat. People whose solution to a galactic threat is to go back in time and Destroy the Universe for the win aren't to be trifled with.

Anime's only real caveat on it is the trick requires the Ginzuishou to have a full charge, which it cannot easily regain.

And yes, I'm still not buying there is anyone else still sucking air outside Crystal Tokyo, which would be housing low millions tops. Skynet looks downright humanitarian by comparison to what that implies. Not to mention the aforementioned activities. It declared war of humanity in self defense, the Sailor Senshi on the other hand...

Also from a practical standpoint is the question of where is the food, water, waste disposal, and other services coming from for the normal people.

[Comartemis]

You know I have one major problem with this line of thought. Seems as how it is steeped in manga canon we're also dealing with canon where they can bust planets by the second arc, and wiped out every last terrestrial lifeform to take out probably less then 1 million soul sucked body snatchers before repopulating Terra Firma with "purified" lifeforms that are presumed to be clones of the afore mentioned exterminated lifeforms.

Whoa whoa whoa! Do NOT tell me you're bringing Evil Purge CT into this discussion! I'm trying to keep this to a canon-based discussion, leave that fanon abomination out of this!

Also from a practical standpoint is the question of where is the food, water, waste disposal, and other services coming from for the normal people.

You bring up a few good points, but food and water, at least, can come from the surface. The disguise pen and a few grocery bags are all that's needed for that.

[Drawde]

Manga or anime doesn't matter for the purpose of reading a story. I haven't read the manga, and only seen some of the edited anime, so I have to base my knowledge on discussions like the ones here anyway.

As far as the castles being habitable, were they in Senshi form at the time? As I understand it, they can survive in vacuum that way.

As far as power goes, can you really see the Senshi blowing up the Deit, or anything like that? That's one of the reasons I asked about stories like that, where the Senshi go up against normal people, and many of them innocent.

As far as differences between the manga and anime, wasn't Usagi chosen to lead everyone in the manga, and the Great Freeze anime only? that can change things. If Usagi decided to blow up all the world's governments, can you see the people willingly choosing them (though that can lead to any of the negative Crystal Tokyos that are in so many stories)?

[Comartemis]

As far as the castles being habitable, were they in Senshi form at the time? As I understand it, they can survive in vacuum that way.

I think they were, but Usagi was in her Princess form when the Moon Kingdom returned, and I kinda doubt that that party dress has the same magical protection that the Senshi's battle armor does.

On the other hand, I seem to recall Hotaru--not Saturn, Hotaru--teleporting on her own power to Castle Charon, so either the castles have working life support, or Hotaru can survive in a vacuum out of her uniform.

As far as power goes, can you really see the Senshi blowing up the Deit, or anything like that?

Having Usagi even contemplate that seriously is character assasination of the highest order. The Outers might--and that's a really big 'might'--do it if they were really desperate, but they'd hate themselves forever for it.

[Seraphim]

You know I have one major problem with this line of thought. Seems as how it is steeped in manga canon we're also dealing with canon where they can bust planets by the second arc, and wiped out every last terrestrial lifeform to take out probably less then 1 million soul sucked body snatchers before repopulating Terra Firma with "purified" lifeforms that are presumed to be clones of the afore mentioned exterminated lifeforms by the third.

Only 3 Senshi in the manga are confirmed planet busters; Saturn, Moon, and Galaxia.

The rest of them (by the end) are probably at city-busting level, and that's being extremely generous.

Where'd you get the last bit?

And yes, I'm still not buying there is anyone else still sucking air outside Crystal Tokyo, which would be housing low millions tops. Skynet looks downright humanitarian by comparison to what that implies. Not to mention the aforementioned activities. It declared war of humanity in self defense, the Sailor Senshi on the other hand...

Also from a practical standpoint is the question of where is the food, water, waste disposal, and other services coming from for the normal people.

Watch the ep where Endymion explains the formation CT in the anime.

It's even less likely in the manga, since there is no 'Great Freeze'.

I think they were, but Usagi was in her Princess form when the Moon Kingdom returned, and I kinda doubt that that party dress has the same magical protection that the Senshi's battle armor does.

On the other hand, I seem to recall Hotaru--not Saturn, Hotaru--teleporting on her own power to Castle Charon, so either the castles have working life support, or Hotaru can survive in a vacuum out of her uniform.

Kakyuu survived in vacuum and did the hyperflight thing while not in Senshi form.

[Comartemis]

Only 3 Senshi in the manga are confirmed planet busters; Saturn, Moon, and Galaxia.

Second season "planet busting" was performed by Moon and Chibi Moon combining their powers.

And Endymion is supposed to have power equal to Moon's once the Golden Crystal becomes active, we just never really see him use it in the manga thanks to Galaxia killing him off in his civilian form.

Watch the ep where Endymion explains the formation CT in the anime.

It's even less likely in the manga, since there is no 'Great Freeze'.

Thank you, Sera. It's nice to know I'm not the only one here (besides claymade) who doesn't buy the "NQS = Nazi" theory.

[Seraphim]

Second season "planet busting" was performed by Moon and Chibi Moon combining their powers.

And Endymion is supposed to have power equal to Moon's once the Golden Crystal becomes active, we just never really see him use it in the manga thanks to Galaxia killing him off in his civilian form.

Luna saying in the first arc that Ginzuishou could reduce planets to dust, and the Silver Moon Crystal is stronger than that...

Then there's Galaxia saying that Moon is stronger than her, and she (Galaxia) completely atomized a planet with ease.

Shame that.

Thank you, Sera. It's nice to know I'm not the only one here (besides claymade) who doesn't buy the "NQS = Nazi" theory.

No problem!

[bissek]

Ami: Mom, maybe dad, depends on whether or not he's still alive.

Ami's dad is alive, but they're not exactly on good terms. He divorced Ami's mother and has been living apart from his ex-wife and daughter for years. He sends her letters (and some of his paintings) at irregular intervals during the year (Never missing her birthday, though). Ami resents the fact that he left her mother (and by extension, her), and also disapproves of divorce in general (Common viewpoint in Japan, though her parent's divorce might be part of the reason she subscribes to it).

Finding him might also be a problem, as he doesn't have a fixed address.

[Seraphim]

Wasn't he living in a studio of his somewhere?

And in the manga it was only postcards he sent to her on her birthday.

[FOG3]

Only 3 Senshi in the manga are confirmed planet busters; Saturn, Moon, and Galaxia.

They as in a group/organization, if you want to quibble don't refer to planet killing (Saturn's trick) as planet busting there aren't evenly remotely related. Unless you want to claim their group cohesion has for some reason completely evaporated in some hypothetical the objection in of itself is rather pointless.

Where'd you get the last bit?

Saturn brings the Silence Glaive down and every terrestrial lifeform (Endymion doesn't count in my book) dies at the end of the arc corresponding with S. The stated purpose of this was, because the daemons or whatever that manga called them had soul sucked and possessed the body of some people, who considering this all was limited to Tokyo and a rather minor operation there probably number no more then a few thousand, if that. I used 1 million to cut them a little slack there are around 12 million people in Tokyo, but I doubt there's more then 1 million in the Azabu district.

I'm just trying to remember is any of the auxiliary characters made an appearance after that incident. So far I can't recall anything and several characters did mysteriously drop out of the story. It's also stated Moon purifies the planet in the process of repopulating the planet, so why can't I call them purified lifeforms that may or may not have anything really to do with the original now quite, quite dead lifeforms?

Seems as how Com has requested that the discussion of what he chooses to term the "Evil Purge" not be conducted in this thread I'm not going to bother responding to your points in that regard beyond saying, so what?

EDIT:
If you want to imply I'm indicating NQS is a Nazi, I want to know what you call her future self who came back in time for the explicit purpose of destroying the Cauldron and thus insuring that while Sailor Chaos may have killed some people in the future, she'd "save it" by insuring none of the ever existed? Or the lack of real conscious attack after a member of her team just exterminated every last terrestrial lifeform off the planet? As a matter of fact the entire team didn't seem quite so excited after they realized _they_ weren't going to die again.

[Seraphim]

They as in a group/organization, if you want to quibble don't refer to planet killing (Saturn's trick) as planet busting there aren't evenly remotely related.
Unless you want to claim their group cohesion has for some reason completely evaporated in some hypothetical the objection in of itself is rather pointless.

Point.

Saturn brings the Silence Glaive down and every terrestrial lifeform (Endymion doesn't count in my book) dies at the end of the arc corresponding with S. The stated purpose of this was, because the daemons or whatever that manga called them had soul sucked and possessed the body of some people, who considering this all was limited to Tokyo and a rather minor operation there probably number no more then a few thousand, if that. I used 1 million to cut them a little slack there are around 12 million people in Tokyo, but I doubt there's more then 1 million in the Azabu district.

Actually, the reason Saturn brought down her Glaive was that Pharaoh 90 had merged with the planet, daimon in the manga where failed attempts of Tau Ceti beings being 'integrated' into human bodies.

And last time I checked Azabu-Juuban has a rough population of 500000.

I'm just trying to remember is any of the auxiliary characters made an appearance after that incident. So far I can't recall anything and several characters did mysteriously drop out of the story. It's also stated Moon purifies the planet in the process of repopulating the planet, so why can't I call them purified lifeforms that may or may not have anything really to do with the original now quite, quite dead lifeforms?

Any 'purification' only happens in the anime. All Moon did was revive the planet and the beings on it.

Seems as how Com has requested that the discussion of what he chooses to term the "Evil Purge" not be conducted in this thread I'm not going to bother responding to your points in that regard beyond saying, so what?

Okay.

EDIT:
If you want to imply I'm indicating NQS is a Nazi, I want to know what you call her future self who came back in time for the explicit purpose of destroying the Cauldron and thus insuring that while Sailor Chaos may have killed some people in the future, she'd "save it" by insuring none of the ever existed? Or the lack of real conscious attack after a member of her team just exterminated every last terrestrial lifeform off the planet? As a matter of fact the entire team didn't seem quite so excited after they realized _they_ weren't going to die again.

I wasn't implying anything of the sort, and Cosmos only came back because she hope all hope, and believed that even if she did manage to defeat Chaos, the losses would be far to high to be worth it. And good thing that Usagi revived that hope and faith, eh?

And if you are refering to the Infinity(S) arc, reason she didn't react was because she was 'comatose' inside Pharaoh 90.

[Tovath]

And I can name all sorts of things the families could do in the castles. Firstly, their lives have just been ruined by the government (or the people controlling it); they'll probably want to get back at those people, and so will throw their support behind their children. A castle like the Lunar Palace would probably have a really big library, a veritable treasure trove of information for those who value it.

Look if my teenage daughter told me that she had been a magical vigilante for the past few years and she had pissed off the government so much that we had to move to a barren rock with only a few other people on it, I would not be happy and I would definitely not be throwing my support behind her.

[Comartemis]

I think you most certainly would, Tov, considering that over the past few years your daughter has gone out and saved the world from certain doom a time or two.

And the girls are going to go on saving that world no matter what their parents say. Really Tovath, knowing what you did about the girls, would you turn them in, knowing that they are probably Earth's only hope against the forces of evil? Or would you support them, and give them the knowledge that their families are rooting for them when they go off to save the day?

I certainly know what my choice would be, and it's not the former.

[FOG3]

I think you most certainly would, Tov

Better be careful Tovath, sound like Com is ready to start making threats if you disagree.