Wild Charon possible direction.

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Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:39 pm

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5159433/1/Wild-Charon

Here is the situation plot wise: I have written it out so that Chibi-Usa, Hotaru, and Ranma were de-aged and are now seven. (Chapter 3 is going to be heavily revised and reposted to ff.net when its done so atm assume what is on ff.net is now degraded from final to a beta version.)

The idea here is that as they are now seven, Chibi-Usa (who had finally had her sweet sixteenth birthday (of sorts))) and her 'Pink Moon Rod' is going to be depowered as a side joke, reason for plot elements. The idea being that before she was de-aged it was an effective weapon (Manga), and now for some reason it is significantly less powerful (Anime).

I have not fully worked out Hotaru's lowered power reason yet, but I am going with that her access to her glaive has been restricted as since, even as a senshi, she can not use it anywhere near as well as she did prior. This is somewhat reinforced as she was 12 when she was introduced. Its flimsy but unless a better idea comes along I will go with that.

Ranma... well he is strong but against some of the demons of the Sailor Moon series plus the dace he is now seven again I am going with despite his skill he really really needs a boost and his powers as Sailor Charon have not manifested. It is also hinted as the idea that until Sailor Pluto 'retires' that he will not awaken (In theory anyway).

As such I wanted to give the three a boost that would make them a team unto themselves one that has their parrents ocassonally having to come in to get them out of hot water, but them still winning more then not. Further this team will be seen as seperate to the Senshi from an outsider's POV. Its the power up that is causing issue. I was short on ideas for something original and am leaning towards a very very light Nanoha cross where they get their own Intelligent Devices. The cross will be done in the scene bellow and have no other (planned) interaction with the Nanoha universe.

--

Fate frowned as she was speaking to Sailor Pluto. She glanced at the written request and approval that came with it from her superiors. This was something she vapidly disliked. Here was someone who represented a group that was known for saving the world and now they needed tools for a 'younger generation?' No she did not like that. Children that age should not be fighting to save the world, they shouldn't be able anyway.

Sure she knew the irony of that thought and Mid-Childa had other rules regarding that. But she grew a lot when she was with Nanoha, and this affected her views.

“Just so you know I object to this.”

Pluto nodded, “So would I, but these three would still fight with or without protection.”

Fate nodded, Nanoha was the same way...

She with drew three items from a drawer, all three looked like pendants. “Their Standby modes were designed to be passed off easily and not easily lost. Not that such would be easy for any Intelligent Device.” This raised many questions for her, how she managed to convince her superiors to make them at all being the first, and how did she get the scans to let them be attuned to their users. These devices were extremely fickle when it came to users. Even if the owner lets someone else use it it was usually bad news and short term.

“In addition all three have a camouflage field around them when active as per request. As long as the device is in use and their barrier jacket is up then they would be hard to identify. Keep in mind though that the actual jacket will be based on the user's mind.”

Pluto bit her tongue regarding her information on Fate's outfit growing up, “So they may change sporadically?”

Fate nodded, “Not too often, but they will if they feel its needed. Most only change it once every few years, or if in a military to match rank. Anyway, the one with the pink crystal activates into twin guns, while I know you wanted something more wand like, as for your over all request it would be this or a staff. Given what you are after this was chosen.”

The time senshi nodded, it was not perfect, but reasonably she wouldn't be here if it was perfect.

“The purple one turns into both a scythe and a sword depending on need.” Seeing the look she blushed, “The one you wanted it for reminds me of myself at that age so I based it after my own Bardiche. The last gets one classified as Revolver Knuckle its over all design is rather basic and simply allows faster movement, and imparts greater kinetic impact. However, this is translated as pure physical blows, any barrier or defence against it will either nullify or reduce significantly the usage.”

Pluto nodded looking at the pendants on the desk, “So we have long range magic attacker, a mid range weapon user, and a short range brawler set.” She looked up.

Fate sighed, “Yes I will expect a lot of collateral damage from this. Just try to keep it minimized please. We are still not happy over the entire Galaxia mess. The only reason that you all were not dragged in was Earth is an non-administrated world. Well technically the entire galaxy in your dimension is, but that is neither here nor there.”

She smirked, “One last thing though, We added an extra feature that the three will need to find out on their own. These devices have a secondary level that offers greater attack potential, we only added it as a precaution. Devices as smart as these tend to... Be strong minded and will not bend for anyone.” She smiled wistfully, “No matter what they will protect their masters.”

Sailor Pluto nodded. She accepted the Pendants and left.

Fate turned towards a corner and nodded as a figure stepped forward. The Barrier Jacket he was wearing was unmistakeable. He had been as enigmatic as his mother at times, worse at others.

All he spoke was, “It is as it must.”

She nodded, who he really was she didn't know. Chrono did, but he refused to say. She only knew that it was he that caused the request to actually get approved.

Fate smiled though after he left, She would have one laugh from this, she had known that the blue one was for someone who shifted genders against their will. The device would always call them their Mistress when he was a she and Master when she was a he. Which was the true form didn't matter to her.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:01 pm

Fate frowned as she was speaking to Sailor Pluto. She glanced at the written request and approval that came with it from her superiors. This was something she vapidly disliked.


From Dictionary.com:

vap·id
[vap-id] Show IPA
adjective
1. lacking or having lost life, sharpness, or flavor; insipid; flat: vapid tea.
2. without liveliness or spirit; dull or tedious: a vapid party; vapid conversation.
Origin: 1650–60; < Latin vapidus; akin to vapor

Related forms
va·pid·i·ty, vap·id·ness, noun
vap·id·ly, adverb

Can be confused: vacant, vacuous, vapid.

Synonyms
1. lifeless, flavorless. 2. spiritless, unanimated, tiresome, prosaic.

Antonyms
1. pungent. 2. stimulating.

You might be better off using greatly or strongly disliked.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby Sunshine Temple » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:41 pm

Hmmm.... I'm not sure on the depowering only to repower.

Would it be more feasible to simply have their powers go down but not as far?


If you must remove then add, I do think your idea of having id be a different powerset has merit. That at least gives a reason and contrast for the change.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:42 am

This is WAY longer then I intended. but any less and I would miss something.

I had two ways I could have taken this story, one where Ranma was soul bound (by an intended process, thus more of a soul searing to burn them together then a natural thing) to both of the girls but at about the same time as I was initally going with that Nanoha 1/2 came out... With the exact same mechanic. (To be honest I had indicated the plot going that way first in my original chapter 3 (which was posted only a month before Nanoha 1/2) but if I were to go anywhere with this I wanted something different. I wanted to give the three a way to grow together with as few, people sticking their noses into it, as possible in a Ranma story. (You haven't heard the last of Ukyo)

Since I wanted this initally to be of two measures of a) a Ranma-Usa-Hotaru thing, and b) Ranma be Sailor Charon this led me to the idea of deaging them, And making them children again, which also causes the tention that Usa and Hotaru had since they were never really kids. Even Ranma had a normal childhood by comparison. Imagine Chibi-Usagi and Hotaru learning how to be little kids by Ranma's example...

As to the power thing... Simply put there is no actual loss in powers for Usa and Hotaru, its more like a loss in focus. For Chibi-Usa she had 900 years of training (in theory but I am using this) to adapt her body to use magic better then her mother, and that 900 years of body adaptation is now gone. And she 'left her wand at home.' This leads into a future plot point which ties into a later plot point of Crystal Tokyo.

For Hotaru it is more due to her being unable to use her powers, almost at all without her glaive. Sure she can heal but how many attack spells does she have that do not include the glaive? As far as I know none. Even Silence Wall seems to need it. Her entire attack list uses the glaive in some form.

And Ranma with no Sailor Senshi powers atm. It is said he will get the good stuff when Pluto retires, but as he was in the Ranma Mushroom arc, well... against a mugger he can easily hold his own. Against a decent demon... well all the skills he has is not going to exactly help with him that size.

--

As to power change:

Usa's guns still have the same effects of purification are technically better then Sailor Moon's. Its more of a matter that Sailor Moon usually has a softened up enemy first. The guns fire off smaller bursts to soften themselves (although I was concidering each weapon to have a 'Burst' or 'Over Drive' mode which is where it acts like a final attack but at the cost of being weakened for 'insert random plot point here.

Hotaru's powers again are simply watered down again, she also, like Usa gets the upgrade of having an actually usable Melee weapon. For some reason I really really want to see Hotaru cutting a swath through mobs of Youma using a polearm or scythe.

Ranma. in his actual cannon he was not much stronger then he should have been at that age. As such in this environment he suddenly turns into Sunday Lunch for any passing life sucking demons. His barrier Jacket simulates his uniform, 'or Fuku as when he is a girl,' and as such he is effectively using a Sailor Crystal just not by the usual focus.

--

The comments Fate made about the form of the Barrier Jacket meant that they would still be Fukued even if it is not by a normal transformation.

The real goal here in this fic is to try and break the usual mold that Ranma gets pen Ranma gets fuku. There IS a plot relivent point here that was mentioned Ranma cannot become Charon until Pluto steps down. This makes Ranma able to be Sailor Charon without being Sailor Charon. Again there IS a future plot reason for this.

--


(This is really getting longer then I planned becuase I wanted to ensure that I am being clear... or at least as clear as you can get at 5am.

This is meant to be a WAFY story. while there is going to be fighting, its hard to say if there will even be a big bad here.

(They aren't Sailor Senshi, just like Sailor V. nope no Sailor Senshi here ;) )
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby Sunshine Temple » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:51 pm

Hmm, given the tone you want to strike you're probably having the power stuff a bit overcomplicated.

Given that it took you this long to explain the situation.

Now the scenario of them being kids. Well... I'm normally wary of that plot line (yes I made Shinji two years younger, hush), but the point you raise about CU and Hotaru looking to Ranma, given that Ranma had the normal childhood is delicious.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby LawOhki » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:17 am

I'm really not feeling the deaging plot as something that is going to last. As a short diversion it's fine but coming up with all these powerups just to negate it begs the question of why bothering doing it in the first place?

Usa should be PISSED that she has to be a kid against after 900 years of being 6. She finally has the body she was hoping for and now some mushroom has taken it away! Someone will pay!

Hotaru I can see liking it at first then getting bored since she's done it a couple times already and it limits what she can do with her fiance. Also she has been a bit too servile when dealing with Ranma. If she's drifting back into SM Saturn she would be much more alpha considering women were the dominant ones in that society.

And Ranma has a complex about not being respected or seen as awesome so wouldn't really relax as a child to enjoy anything. Or would enjoy being a child up until someone reminded him at which point he becomes pouty.

The real goal here in this fic is to try and break the usual mold that Ranma gets pen Ranma gets fuku. There IS a plot relivent point here that was mentioned Ranma cannot become Charon until Pluto steps down. This makes Ranma able to be Sailor Charon without being Sailor Charon. Again there IS a future plot reason for this.

Doesn't SM indicate that they are always going to be senshi? Doesn't matter what they want to do. Sure she could give her crystal away but that's probably going to make her turn into a puddle. Charon is also a completely different space body than pluto so it should have it's own unique sailor crystal. So shouldn't the situation be more like Chibi-Usa who just hasn't come up with a way to activate the link?
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:18 pm

you both are right on this. I was trying too hard to salvage what I had already written. I am going to have to scrap it and start over.

The points that I will use are going to be (I am saying this for feed back)

1. They WILL be deaged. (This was the core element of the entire story as I had envisioned it)
2. I will make them PISSED. But I will drag out the entire part where Setsuna is trying to keep from running off to get clothes (and admit that this is not going to be an easy fix) as the first drop of a hat. This will Piss ranma off more as he is now stuck as a girl until she relents.
3. I think I will just have chibi come back after the deageing still as a child.
4. They will be trying to be normal kids as none of them had normal childhoods (Ranma was closest)
5. I am thinking of a running joke of where anytime where they go to a typical dating spot alone it ends in disaster, not always demon related. To the point that one of the times where they show up Hotaru just fires off a beam of energy without transforming or using the glaive and destroy a youma that jumps out at them from hiding, just in time to get it in the face. Isn't it cute a seven year old Hotaru with a twitching eye and her friends taking a step back from her.
6. Ranma will awaken powers as a Kamen (pictures Kamen!Ranma being dragged somewhere (not literally) to a fair by chibi-moon and chibi-Saturn (In their uniforms).... cute picture but not likely to happen)
7. Actual fights will be 'mostly' off screen, enough so that we never actually learn Ranma's powers ;)
8. I will try to make Hotaru more domanant but remember that all three have very dominating personalities. Usa and Hotaru got along fine, add Ranma to the mix and while it will add friction she does know that Ranma is not one to be forced, well not easily anyway.
9. Despite Ranma being male he is also a she and will spend a lot of time initally with her as such due to the ageing shrooms. which will color Hotaru's view keeping her from channeling SM views.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby LawOhki » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:53 pm

WG_Writer wrote:1. They WILL be deaged. (This was the core element of the entire story as I had envisioned it)
2. I will make them PISSED. But I will drag out the entire part where Setsuna is trying to keep from running off to get clothes (and admit that this is not going to be an easy fix) as the first drop of a hat. This will Piss ranma off more as he is now stuck as a girl until she relents.
3. I think I will just have chibi come back after the deageing still as a child.
4. They will be trying to be normal kids as none of them had normal childhoods (Ranma was closest)
5. I am thinking of a running joke of where anytime where they go to a typical dating spot alone it ends in disaster, not always demon related. To the point that one of the times where they show up Hotaru just fires off a beam of energy without transforming or using the glaive and destroy a youma that jumps out at them from hiding, just in time to get it in the face. Isn't it cute a seven year old Hotaru with a twitching eye and her friends taking a step back from her.
6. Ranma will awaken powers as a Kamen (pictures Kamen!Ranma being dragged somewhere (not literally) to a fair by chibi-moon and chibi-Saturn (In their uniforms).... cute picture but not likely to happen)
7. Actual fights will be 'mostly' off screen, enough so that we never actually learn Ranma's powers ;)
8. I will try to make Hotaru more domanant but remember that all three have very dominating personalities. Usa and Hotaru got along fine, add Ranma to the mix and while it will add friction she does know that Ranma is not one to be forced, well not easily anyway.
9. Despite Ranma being male he is also a she and will spend a lot of time initally with her as such due to the ageing shrooms. which will color Hotaru's view keeping her from channeling SM views.


1. I'm curious why them being children is such an important detail.
2. Ranma really should be capable of running off on his own.
3. So she would be slightly older?
4. Why? Chibi did get a somewhat normal childhood the first couple times she came back. Hotaru did for the most part as well. Sure she was turned into a cyborg but she was mostly just cut off from others, which is not abnormal. Ranma's is probably the most normal other than being a super power martial artist.
5. As children, why would they go to date spots?
6. Might be more interesting if Ranma just develops some time relevant powers. Mamoru is supposed to be super odd in terms of universal power schemes and it can even be inferred that he's only powerful because he is connected to the golden crystal.

8. So then they should bicker a lot.
9. Male or female it should channel Hotaru's view. Not that she should really have a view since Saturn wasn't supposed to be doing anything during the SM. But that ruins the whole engagement thing.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby Sunshine Temple » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:57 pm

I think that's a workable outline.

Though Hotaru isn't as much of an alpha dominant as CU or Ranma, so interest can be there.

Now speaking as someone who tried to do a "no fights" R/SM fic, you're wise to use the "mostly" qualifier.

Now not showing Ranma's powers, is a bigger stylistic handicap. Since that means the training/practice you can show will be sharply limited.

And I've found that Ranma in a training setting can really let the character show different facets. That's when Ranma is at her most academic and artistic and passionate. Hands on martial theory is her passion, and when she can learn and teach is when she's most in her element.

But also when she becomes an expert, which given she'll be a child and thus seen as even more of "just a kid" will be a situation she'll relish.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:33 am

LawOhki wrote:1. I'm curious why them being children is such an important detail.
2. Ranma really should be capable of running off on his own.
3. So she would be slightly older?
4. Why? Chibi did get a somewhat normal childhood the first couple times she came back. Hotaru did for the most part as well. Sure she was turned into a cyborg but she was mostly just cut off from others, which is not abnormal. Ranma's is probably the most normal other than being a super power martial artist.
5. As children, why would they go to date spots?
6. Might be more interesting if Ranma just develops some time relevant powers. Mamoru is supposed to be super odd in terms of universal power schemes and it can even be inferred that he's only powerful because he is connected to the golden crystal.

8. So then they should bicker a lot.
9. Male or female it should channel Hotaru's view. Not that she should really have a view since Saturn wasn't supposed to be doing anything during the SM. But that ruins the whole engagement thing.


1. Simply put the story I want to write or rather make this is one where Ranma finds out his mother is Setsuna (Sailor Pluto) and gets has the problem of getting deaged. I wanted a chibi ranma/SM cross while including the main cast.
2. Sure Ranma could run off and get clothes but he would agree to a degree, if he caved in now and ran off to get clothes aside from the hand-me downs (this time from Hotaru) then its an admition that he is stuck. Ranma is fully adaptable to this type of situtation, but I will relent enough to add that Hotaru has some unisex stuff or close enough to keep Ranma from passing the line.
3. I will likely reballance the ages a touch, but yes I think she will end up a little older (Physically)
4. (condenced) ultimately the problem with Chibi and Hotaru was the fact that their lives were disrupted with life or death battles from go once all is said and done. While Pre-Senshi Hotaru was secluded and this is not abnormal, its not normal either. Ranma on the other hand was moving regularly. while he did stay in random areas to train and go to school (which raises several conflicting questions about genma to me) he still had somewhat of a normal life of friends, and lack of fights where lives of innocents are on the line. (Herb and Saffron aside besides these enemies pale compared to the SM enemies)
5. Children physically, they are still teenish in mind, as such they are trying to act like they are teens instead of pre-teens.
6. Hmm, in a way Mamoru already has time based powers with his ability to read past of objects. and as to his powers--- the way I have always seen it and wrote it was that it has the same connection too him as the Silver Crystal has with Usagi. It is implied by Galaxia when she shows all the sailor crystals she has including her friends that Mamoru is in the count. so while "word of god" only girls can be sailor senshi, their may be a male equalivent that was unnamed.

8/9. There will be bickering have that no doubt, but Hotaru and Chibi are very caring people, and Ranma is very hot headed and known for draging his feet on topics. Although Ranma will heel spin if it suits him. I am not saying Hotaru or Chibi will caiter to Ranma, far from it. remember the fair stunt. while it seemed like they were being submissive, who exactly was moving who?

Remember the final arcs we see of the three in the Manga and this is the ultimate tell of character imo
Ranma is the type to protect what he sees as his, the higher the stakes the higher the effort. When Akane was about to die he invented new stops to pull out to save the day. (One could say he did it out of Love and Justice ;p )
Saturn is willing to sacrifice her friends and family and herself to accomplish a goal, she tends to be very very narrow minded when she decides that something must be done. She had to be stopped from bringing down the glaive by Chibi once at the cost of Chibi's life.
Chibi we know already that she is older then she apprears but even then she is inpatient and will act often times before she should. She is also highly observent, more so then her mother
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby LawOhki » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:52 am

WG_Writer wrote:2. Sure Ranma could run off and get clothes but he would agree to a degree, if he caved in now and ran off to get clothes aside from the hand-me downs (this time from Hotaru) then its an admition that he is stuck. Ranma is fully adaptable to this type of situtation, but I will relent enough to add that Hotaru has some unisex stuff or close enough to keep Ranma from passing the line.
3. I will likely reballance the ages a touch, but yes I think she will end up a little older (Physically)
4. (condenced) ultimately the problem with Chibi and Hotaru was the fact that their lives were disrupted with life or death battles from go once all is said and done. While Pre-Senshi Hotaru was secluded and this is not abnormal, its not normal either. Ranma on the other hand was moving regularly. while he did stay in random areas to train and go to school (which raises several conflicting questions about genma to me) he still had somewhat of a normal life of friends, and lack of fights where lives of innocents are on the line. (Herb and Saffron aside besides these enemies pale compared to the SM enemies)
5. Children physically, they are still teenish in mind, as such they are trying to act like they are teens instead of pre-teens.
6. Hmm, in a way Mamoru already has time based powers with his ability to read past of objects. and as to his powers--- the way I have always seen it and wrote it was that it has the same connection too him as the Silver Crystal has with Usagi. It is implied by Galaxia when she shows all the sailor crystals she has including her friends that Mamoru is in the count. so while "word of god" only girls can be sailor senshi, their may be a male equalivent that was unnamed.

8/9. There will be bickering have that no doubt, but Hotaru and Chibi are very caring people, and Ranma is very hot headed and known for draging his feet on topics. Although Ranma will heel spin if it suits him. I am not saying Hotaru or Chibi will caiter to Ranma, far from it. remember the fair stunt. while it seemed like they were being submissive, who exactly was moving who?

Remember the final arcs we see of the three in the Manga and this is the ultimate tell of character imo
Ranma is the type to protect what he sees as his, the higher the stakes the higher the effort. When Akane was about to die he invented new stops to pull out to save the day. (One could say he did it out of Love and Justice ;p )
Saturn is willing to sacrifice her friends and family and herself to accomplish a goal, she tends to be very very narrow minded when she decides that something must be done. She had to be stopped from bringing down the glaive by Chibi once at the cost of Chibi's life.
Chibi we know already that she is older then she apprears but even then she is inpatient and will act often times before she should. She is also highly observent, more so then her mother

2. Admission that he has to wear smaller clothing isn't the same as giving up. WOG did say she imagined Hotaru liking to get dirty. (Adulteress Pluto chibi is adorable)

4. If you want to take that Ranma was traveling around his entire life you should also take that those life and death battles are nothing super new. Regardless of scale he still had plenty of moments of mortal peril.
5. You might be getting into some really icky territory if you want them to be acting like teens in the bodies of tiny children.
6. Word of god is that he takes the place of sailor earth. There isn't implied to be any kind of male equivalent because she also gave him a special place as the holder of the golden crystal, guardian of Elysium, yadda yadda. In fact it kind of breaks the rules of SM's universe to have a male version of senshi. Not that males can't be powerful of course, they just aren't senshi.

I'm forgetting the instance where Hotaru killed Chibi with her glaive. Dream arc they fight alongside each other until getting stuck in the mirror. Galaxia they're all attacking Sailor Moon and Usa is told to stay out of it by ChibiChibi and does.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:15 am

LawOhki wrote:2. Admission that he has to wear smaller clothing isn't the same as giving up. WOG did say she imagined Hotaru liking to get dirty. (Adulteress Pluto chibi is adorable)

4. If you want to take that Ranma was traveling around his entire life you should also take that those life and death battles are nothing super new. Regardless of scale he still had plenty of moments of mortal peril.
5. You might be getting into some really icky territory if you want them to be acting like teens in the bodies of tiny children.
6. Word of god is that he takes the place of sailor earth. There isn't implied to be any kind of male equivalent because she also gave him a special place as the holder of the golden crystal, guardian of Elysium, yadda yadda. In fact it kind of breaks the rules of SM's universe to have a male version of senshi. Not that males can't be powerful of course, they just aren't senshi.

I'm forgetting the instance where Hotaru killed Chibi with her glaive. Dream arc they fight alongside each other until getting stuck in the mirror. Galaxia they're all attacking Sailor Moon and Usa is told to stay out of it by ChibiChibi and does.


2. hmm... I still want that scene... Perhaps a happy medium, less then an hour later Setsuna returns with clothes and mutters something about having three "dirt disasters" or something similar.
4. Just because he is traveling a lot does not mean he has 'Alot' of mortal peril. Having Genma as a father does. The real question to ask is not if he had real mortal peril here, but if he as he is now can acknowlage the fact he had such. Given his overall personality I doubt it.
5. Not so much you think. I am not planning on anything like kissing or such, just them trying to hang out together and have 'dates'. how many little kids tend to try and act older then they are? Its not that icky.
6. while I am not going to debate the point regarding the 'word of god' arguement because I do accept it. However Mamoru is technically more powerful then the inner senshi 'excluding moon' combined. The Anime and Manga differ on this point at the end of the series. in the anime he had a sailor crystal, in the manga he didn't. There are unstated issues with the senshi themselves. At one point it is shown or implied them growing with princess serenity. It is also mentioned that after the battle with Chaos in the Sailor Wars Serenity and her senshi settled down in Sol System. While its possible (and probably meant) that the princesses were the daughters of the last generation of senshi. If it is passed down by generations with that being the case then I am using the excuse that Mamoru's mother was a previous sailor terra and their was no other heir so he has it, maybe not able to use it, but has it none the less.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby LawOhki » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:51 pm

WG_Writer wrote:
2. hmm... I still want that scene... Perhaps a happy medium, less then an hour later Setsuna returns with clothes and mutters something about having three "dirt disasters" or something similar.

Or two dirty children and one who they are forcing into it.
6. while I am not going to debate the point regarding the 'word of god' arguement because I do accept it. However Mamoru is technically more powerful then the inner senshi 'excluding moon' combined. The Anime and Manga differ on this point at the end of the series. in the anime he had a sailor crystal, in the manga he didn't. There are unstated issues with the senshi themselves. At one point it is shown or implied them growing with princess serenity. It is also mentioned that after the battle with Chaos in the Sailor Wars Serenity and her senshi settled down in Sol System. While its possible (and probably meant) that the princesses were the daughters of the last generation of senshi. If it is passed down by generations with that being the case then I am using the excuse that Mamoru's mother was a previous sailor terra and their was no other heir so he has it, maybe not able to use it, but has it none the less.

Mamoru is more powerful? Not only just over one but all combined? What? Isn't there a moment where he thinks to himself how little he can do compared to them?

Its shown that the Guardian senshi were already young senshi when Usagi was born. Nehellenia comments that they were all brought there from across the galaxy, which keeps with how the senshi are said to be called to their planets. (Act 48 and using the recent releases translation)

Your sailor wars comment must be about the anime.

Manga is rather explicit in that is tied to them in particular. Their sailor crystals can be stolen and harnessed but that is their being that is being used. Only inherited one is Usagi going to chibi usa which crippled Usagi's powers.
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby WG_Writer » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:54 am

LawOhki wrote:Or two dirty children and one who they are forcing into it.

or something like that. She might not care to draw that line of difference.

LawOhki wrote:Mamoru is more powerful? Not only just over one but all combined? What? Isn't there a moment where he thinks to himself how little he can do compared to them?

Most of the series he is plagued by his own doubts. There are times he does show his stregnth as on par or close to Usagi in Serenity mode (Not the final form she had at the absolute end). I may be exaggerating some but he still was so powerful that when evil only Sailor Moon could drop him. (Which is funny since <insert villan of the arc> seems to corrupt him as a matter of course...) He had also fixed the North pole after the first arc due to it being destroyed in the fight. Only Moon and Saturn showed powers on that scale. Although it was shown as he was connected to the Earth so closely that when it felt pain so did he. So the exacting nature of such a connection is qustionable. On the other hand he was the holder of the Sailor Crystal of the Earth and the Golden Crystal which probably was his source of his stregnth.
LawOhki wrote:Its shown that the Guardian senshi were already young senshi when Usagi was born. Nehellenia comments that they were all brought there from across the galaxy, which keeps with how the senshi are said to be called to their planets. (Act 48 and using the recent releases translation)

I am not sure if it was thee recent or older translations or not but the translations I saw indicated that they "Recieved" their Sailor Crystals in that arc. Could mean that they had recently been summoned (not already had them) and is not without counter merit as Ceres and her band were asleep in their Astroids as their pure unborn form. And were given form.
LawOhki wrote:Your sailor wars comment must be about the anime.

Upon further research it was... sort of...
LawOhki wrote:Manga is rather explicit in that is tied to them in particular. Their sailor crystals can be stolen and harnessed but that is their being that is being used. Only inherited one is Usagi going to chibi usa which crippled Usagi's powers.


But It was inherited. The door is open by that alone.
Also remember that Chibi chibi was Sailor Cosmos which was Sailor Moon's future self that lost in a war to Sailor Chaos, as a result she came to the past to kill chaos before it attained Senshi form. Although it 'could' be a reincarnation of Sailor Moon, Usa's child or something. Even 'Word of God' was to state she didn't know and as such it is in question.
In the Moon Kingdom the Sailor Senshi were shown as young, and so was Chibi-usa when she arrived and she was 900... were they really that young? Old? Ceres was 'created' matured not going through growing up. Age can not be used as a measuring stick here. The only Sailor Senshi we know of that grew up were Princess Serenity (past and present), and the specifically reincarnated. As stated the Amazon group were created instantly at age. We saw in the Manga that the Senshi didn't even have their Sailor Crystals at all till one arc when they got them meaning they can exist, with their powers and not have their sailor crystals. Thus the crystals might be able to be passed down.

THIS means one of a few things that I see
1) That Neo-Queen Serenity reobtained her powers somehow, OR never really lost them permantly.
2) She is from an alternate universe where Usa never existed (This is unlikely because Ceres stated that Cosmos was the ultimate form of Sailor Moon.)
3) She is an outright reincarnation who got far more stronger (Also unlikely imo because if she is so far in the future then Ceres shouldn't really know that since she is from the present/chibi's time. She was dormant in the astroid until Chibi needed guardians and had generated a body by Neo-Queen Serenity. This could be used to say that some/all Sailor Crystals are unique and cannot be passed down. This further asks the question as to Usagi/chibi's true connection and Serenity/Usagi's
thus
4) The Moon Sailor Crystal is special in the way it has the Silver Crystal. Due to the fact it appears to pass between generations not once but twice might mean that some crystals that are similar the only other crystal we know of which looks similar is the Golden Crystal. (Either that or this is proof that a Sailor crystal is not tied to a specific person, but can pass with connected life.
Storm trooper effect works against good guys as well.
No matter how strong you are, there is always a teenager able to beat you without breaking a sweat.
A blind Paladin can only hear half truths
A deaf Paladin can only see half truths
Either way the Paladin is a berserker
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Re: Wild Charon possible direction.

Postby LawOhki » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:26 am

Non-canon related suggestion. After rereading what was already written, can really do with more show and less tell. A lot of things are summarized. Also why did Ranma make such a hugely clean break with the Tendos? Once he left, they just vanished from the story or his thoughts.


WG_Writer wrote:or something like that. She might not care to draw that line of difference.

Should, she's known Usa for a LONG time.

Most of the series he is plagued by his own doubts. There are times he does show his stregnth as on par or close to Usagi in Serenity mode (Not the final form she had at the absolute end). I may be exaggerating some but he still was so powerful that when evil only Sailor Moon could drop him. (Which is funny since <insert villan of the arc> seems to corrupt him as a matter of course...) He had also fixed the North pole after the first arc due to it being destroyed in the fight. Only Moon and Saturn showed powers on that scale. Although it was shown as he was connected to the Earth so closely that when it felt pain so did he. So the exacting nature of such a connection is qustionable. On the other hand he was the holder of the Sailor Crystal of the Earth and the Golden Crystal which probably was his source of his stregnth.

Mamoru when evil didn't really fight them that much. He beat up on Usagi a little but it's not like she would have wanted to hurt him and needed a lot of encouragement to respond. He got to inconvenience Venus shortly after she woke up after being worn out from using the sword.

The Silver Millenium flashback shows him being cut down by Beryl with Venus being the one to kill her. Same in the present, where he didn't even attempt to help Beryl from getting gutted. Luna directly comments that he's only strong because a piece of Usagi's crystal is in him. And he can't be that powerful if Luna of all cats can block his attack without much effort.

I am not sure if it was thee recent or older translations or not but the translations I saw indicated that they "Recieved" their Sailor Crystals in that arc. Could mean that they had recently been summoned (not already had them) and is not without counter merit as Ceres and her band were asleep in their Astroids as their pure unborn form. And were given form.

If you mean the chibi-senshi flashback, Miss Dream, the newest official releases, and even the shitty chix comics one don't indicate that they were recently summoned or just received their powers.

As for the rest of the arc where they were unable to transform, all three copies indicate that it was them suffering from insecurities created by the Dead Moon, they just needed to find themselves again in order to transform.

Artemis summarizes it on this page. (Act 43)
But It was inherited. The door is open by that alone.

That crystal also appears to exist in all times at once and is equally powerful no matter what happens. Kind of a unique item tied to their family line.

Also remember that Chibi chibi was Sailor Cosmos which was Sailor Moon's future self that lost in a war to Sailor Chaos, as a result she came to the past to kill chaos before it attained Senshi form. Although it 'could' be a reincarnation of Sailor Moon, Usa's child or something. Even 'Word of God' was to state she didn't know and as such it is in question.

Who? Chaos or Cosmos? Cause Cosmos is obviously just future Usagi after an all is lost scenario. WoG is quoted as going both ways but in the manga the story she tells indicates that she was Usagi. Remembers fighting Galaxia and wants to set it right. Obviously ambigious on how she came to become Cosmos but seems quite clear cut on just who she is.

In the Moon Kingdom the Sailor Senshi were shown as young, and so was Chibi-usa when she arrived and she was 900... were they really that young? Old? Ceres was 'created' matured not going through growing up. Age can not be used as a measuring stick here. The only Sailor Senshi we know of that grew up were Princess Serenity (past and present), and the specifically reincarnated. As stated the Amazon group were created instantly at age. We saw in the Manga that the Senshi didn't even have their Sailor Crystals at all till one arc when they got them meaning they can exist, with their powers and not have their sailor crystals. Thus the crystals might be able to be passed down.

Well Usa is supposed to be an oddball due to her senshi powers not activating. None of the others are ever suggested to have a similar problem. I don't remember the quartet having been created at age, only that they were awakened by Nehellenia and made into her servants. (Like what Beryl did to Mamoru's guard, awoke them and changed them to her will) Quartet needed to be reverted to their crystals in order to be properly ressed by Usagi.

Galaxia arc shows that removing the crystal will kill the body, so what arc was it where they didn't have any crystals at all? I'm drawing a blank.

4) The Moon Sailor Crystal is special in the way it has the Silver Crystal. Due to the fact it appears to pass between generations not once but twice might mean that some crystals that are similar the only other crystal we know of which looks similar is the Golden Crystal. (Either that or this is proof that a Sailor crystal is not tied to a specific person, but can pass with connected life.

The silver crystal is the only one shown to be super ultra extra special. Golden crystal to a lesser extent.

Chibi-Usa is shown to have her own pink crystal so the silver crystal may not even be her source of her power, it was only being shared like with how Usagi was keeping everyone alive when creating crystal tokyo until Chibi-Usa could stand on her own. And naming conventions like who is Sailor Moon are kind of blase when every other arc has Usagi changing her senshi forms name or even dropping it all together to be queen.



Oh and these are the new releases. Very good translations, notes at the end of every book on the various cultural references, and they left in a lot of the honorifics.
http://www.amazon.com/Sailor-Moon-Box-S ... c_b_text_b
http://www.amazon.com/Sailor-Moon-Box-V ... c_b_text_a
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