Gaea fed up with Mamoru Chooses Another Guardian

[Spica75]

As I said before "magic" is a catch all category that doesn't explain anything.

That assumes there is an explanation. And no it isn´t. Magic does have it´s own definitions.
Yes those CAN be very wide, but they are certainly not "catch all". And some will definitely include things that does have a scientific explanation, but we cannot know which until we know how to explain them, and just because some can be explained does not equate to there always being an explanation that moves magic into the scientific arena.

That´s just one more flawed assumption to make.

The clock for instance in the West started out as a way to tell the faithful what time it was so they could pray at the proper hour.

Not really no, since that was the 14th century and by then timekeeping was not a new thing. They were first with serious attempts at complex and precise mechanical contraptions for timekeeping, yes.

The truly great era for clock development happened thanks to the British admiralty´s reward for someone creating a reliable way of keeping time for long voyages as that would allow accurate navigation.

Actually per James Burke's Day the Universe Changed and Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters that is what it boils down to: The model (or structure) of how the universe works determines your research...right down to what you consider reliable data.

Only as long as you let it. And as far as going that direction, there essentially is no reliable data, nor can there be. Which is in my view a bullshit argument because by that thought, nothing could exist and as such we could not be having this discussion, ergo those folks are wrong, so i wont trust them unless i can verify their claims and statements myself.

One problem people have today is they go science = technology

Some do, many/most do not.

As Burke related in the last show of Connections showed technology is the result of many forces: war, religion, philosophy, deliberate search, accident, etc.

Yes? I don´t need some show to tell me that. That´s obvious to anyone who spent some time researching history, and especially technological history. Both of which are among my personal interests.

Thaumatology is the science of magic.

Nope. It´s the study of miracles. Which might be the same thing but isn´t supposed to be as magic does not need to have a religious component(indeed, SHOULD NOT have, as then it´s miracles instead of magic again).

[Maximara]

Maximara: Thaumatology is the science of magic.

Nope. It´s the study of miracles. Which might be the same thing but isn´t supposed to be as magic does not need to have a religious component(indeed, SHOULD NOT have, as then it´s miracles instead of magic again).

Authentic Thaumaturgy by Isaac Bonewits says otherwise.

"The science of magic is called thaumaturgy in China Miéville's Perdido Street Station."

"art mathematical" called "thaumaturgy... which giveth certain order to make strange works, of the sense to be perceived and of men greatly to be wondered at." - John Dee (1570)

"Thaumaturgy is the "science" of magic" - Magical Theory and Tradition by Marcus Cordey

"In pre-Cartesian science and theology, thaumaturgy included such arcana as magic, the occult, demonology" - Esoteric Tradition in Russian Romantic Literature by Lauren G. Leighton (2010)

"Magic is referred to as 'Thaumaturgy' (and is a definable science)"

Regardless of what thaumaturgy originally meant it has been used to express 'science of magic' for nearly 30 years. The proper term is Arcanology

[Spica75]

Authentic Thaumaturgy by Isaac Bonewits says otherwise.

And a dictionary does not.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thaumaturgy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thaumaturgy
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thaumaturgy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaumaturgy
Thaumaturgy (from the Greek words θαῦμα thaûma, meaning "miracle" or "marvel"

And you do recall i actually have that book by Bonewits? And if you actually read it, you find that his primary idea of magic is doing some horsetrading with deities.

[Maximara]

Maximara: Authentic Thaumaturgy by Isaac Bonewits says otherwise.

And a dictionary does not.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thaumaturgy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thaumaturgy
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thaumaturgy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaumaturgy
Thaumaturgy (from the Greek words θαῦμα thaûma, meaning "miracle" or "marvel"

And you do recall i actually have that book by Bonewits? And if you actually read it, you find that his primary idea of magic is doing some horsetrading with deities.

Those dictionaries also use a definition of science that people like Josh McDowell used to argue that the existence of Jesus couldn't be proven "scientifically" ie IGNORING the social sciences:

dictionary.reference: systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

merriam-webster: knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation

thefreedictionary: the systematic study of the nature and behaviour of the material and physical universe, based on observation, experiment, and measurement, and the formulation of laws to describe these facts in general terms

Any dictionary that doesn't understand how the social sciences work to the point it makes inaccurate definition of science is totally useless.

wikipedia: Thaumaturgy is defined as the "science" or "physics" of magic in RPGs such as GURPS,[6][7][8] novels such as China Miéville's Perdido Street Station, and real world works such as Marcus Cordey's Magical Theory and Tradition and Isaac Bonewits' 1971 Real Magic and his 2005 Authentic Thaumaturgy.

"Early definitions of magic in the West (as well as current ones in the East and in various tribal cultures) stated that magic was a way of understanding and using natural phenomena to produce desired physical results (rain, better crops, healing, hot and cold running lovers, etc.) in such a way as to astonish the ignorant multitudes." - Authentic Thaumaturgy. pg 16

"Throughout the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance, it was physically safer for occultists to stress the theurgical (religious or enlightenment-oriented) side of magic than to mention the thaumaturgical (wonder-working or engineering) side, even though the latter might have been what they were really interested in." (sic) Authentic Thaumaturgy. pg 16

Here Bonewits expressly states that theurgical NOT thaumaturgical was the "religious or enlightenment-oriented" side and that thaumaturgical was wonder-working or engineering side of things.

In chapter 4 of Authentic Thaumaturgy Bonewits states: "Some are interested because they see magic as a way to attain spiritual and intellectual growth, as with Eastern yogis and some Western ceremonial magicians, and this approach is known as theurgy (from Greek roots meaning “divine work”). Others are interested in learning to do magic in order to change the physical world for the benefit of themselves and their loved ones, and this approach is known as thaumaturgy (from the Greek for “wonder working”).

He also warns "Don’t confuse this historical definition of “thaumaturgy” with the way the term is used in AD&D PLAYER’S OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC, “A school of thaumaturgy defines a specific method or procedure of spellcasting that varies from the standard [AD&D] execution of a spell’s components.” Their Schools of Thaumaturgy include “Alchemy, Artifice, Geometry, Song and Wild Magic,” and are closer to what this book calls “modes” of using magic later in this Chapter."

"The Laws of Magic are not legislative laws but, like those of physics or of musical harmony, are practical observations that have been accumulating over the course of thousands of years, with remarkable similarity in almost every known human culture." chapter 6 of Authentic Thaumaturgy which are in order: Law of Knowledge; Law of Self-Knowledge; Law of Cause & Effect; Law of Synchronicity; Law of Association; Law of Similarity; Law of Contagion; Law of Positive Attraction; Law of Negative Attraction; Law of Names; Law of Words of Power; Law of Personification; Law of Invocation; The Law of Evocation; Law of Identification; Law of InfiniteData; Law of FiniteSenses; Law of Personal Universes; Law of Infinite Universes; Law of Pragmatism; Law of True Falsehoods; Law of Synthesis; Law of Polarity; Law of Dynamic Balance; Law of Perversity; and Law of Unity

Finally there is this "Thaumaturgy: The use of magic for nonreligious purposes; the art and science of “wonder working;” using magic to actually change things in the physical world." - Authentic Thaumaturgy pg 138.

"My Own Definitions...

Here’s the three ways I do it in the current (1989) edition of my first book, Real Magic:
Magic: (1) A general term for arts, sciences, philosophies and technologies concerned with (a) understanding and using various altered states of consciousness within which it is possible to have access to and control over one’s psychic talents, and (b) the uses and abuses of those psychic talents to change interior and/or exterior realities.
(2) A science and an art comprising a system of concepts and methods for the build-up of human emotions, altering the electrochemical balance of the metabolism, using associational techniques and devices to concentrate and focus this emotional energy, thus modulating the energies broadcast by the human body, usually to affect other energy patterns whether animate or inanimate, but occasionally to affect the personal energy pattern.
(3) A collection of rule-of-thumb techniques designed to get one’s psychic talents to do more or less what one wants, more often than not, one hopes." - Authentic Thaumaturgy pg 18

Since I am cutting and pasting this directly from the PDF version of Authentic Thaumaturgy I suggest you go back and reread what you have as what you are saying is NOT jiving with the book I have nor the references Bonewits is making to his or other works. Heck Bonewits is expressly stating that magic in of itself is a science with some other things thrown into the mix (can you say social science? I knew you could)!