The Dark Lords Ascendant, Chapter 7 [R/SM Cross]

[Fellow Sufferer]

Ehhhh... kinda. I guess you could say that they're on the same level, but it's a really wide level and Ranma & co. are just taking their first, fledgeling steps onto it.

To try and put the comparison in perspective, yes, the scale of the sort of feats might be similar, but it's also in how they do it. Ranma can, indeed, destroy an army... if he has the right setup, if he has his own army of thousands both providing the ki to form into his gigantic Hiryu Korin Dan, and if that army can fight off the enemy until they've put enough ambient ki in the air that it's doable, and if he has two magical artifacts to help jumpstart it, and if they're in an enclosed cavern to contain it that'll also help a lot...

A legendary-across-millenia warrior like Ranmaverse!Karna, on the other hand, would also have destroyed the youma army, had he been present (and had he still been alive). But he would have done it by just pulling out Vijaya and straight-up slaughtering the unholy crap out of them, no army of his own needed.

I always figured that the stuff of legends is mostly just that - legends. The legend will state that Ranma destroyed an army in one strike, and omit the rest. Perhaps even make the technique he used into his weapon - something like a 'Spear of Ascending Dragon' or something. On the other hand, if you, as the author, state that Ranmaverse!Karna is that much more badass, and his mythical feats are to be taken literally - that's cool too.

That's the odd thing about epicness, actually. It does, indeed, seem natural that something of that scale would be hard to top... but the relationship of "scale" to "epicness" is... well, not absolutely unrelated... but not at all linear either. Depending on how its handled, sometimes you can have a knife fight in a back alley that no one else ever sees or knows about that ends up as feeling more epic than some grand clashes of armies for the fate of the universe in other stories. It's all how you set it up, and the feelings behind it.

As for whether I'll "prove you wrong"... well, only time will tell how it all pans out. But I'll just say the following:

A) One part (though not the only one) of the reason I finished Metallia off in the interlude was because I knew I couldn't get a finale using her much more epic than that one was (taking into consideration what she and her forces had to offer as final bosses)... and I just wasn't satisfied with only that level of epicness for the grand finale to the entire storyline.

B) There are some "high scale" events coming.

C) I'm not, however, relying on said scale to be the only (or even the primary) thing that actually makes the grand finale as epic as I intend it to be. It's the other aspects that are far more key.

Well, you didn't disappoint so far, and I will remain optimistic. Sometimes it's about tension, the feeling that the heroes can lose, and most of your fights and situations are rife with it (that's why the repetitive nature of many fights - and plots - in Sailor Moon kinda draws that feeling away).

[Mr L]

While I have really liked this chapter, unless Kazuo is leaving out some decisive detail, I'm sceptical about that creature being a worse menace than Chaos, a cosmic entity. Even though the crature was specifically to kill Sailor Moon's grandmother and mother, Usagi is nothing like them, she's essentially the avatar of the universe. How is possible that Kazuo fighted such a monster alone for even a short amount of time?
And I think to know who or what is the Project Janos mentioned in the early chapters.

[ijp92]

While I have really liked this chapter, unless Kazuo is leaving out some decisive detail, I'm sceptical about that creature being a worse menace than Chaos, a cosmic entity. Even though the crature was specifically to kill Sailor Moon's grandmother and mother, Usagi is nothing like them, she's essentially the avatar of the universe. How is possible that Kazuo fighted such a monster alone for even a short amount of time?
And I think to know who or what is the Project Janos mentioned in the early chapters.

Well a loose interpretation would be that the Wyrmspawn is to Chaos as Doomsday is to Darkseid. Both are dangerous. One is just dangerous on a personal level.
As for Kazuo surviving? I would assume that it was a healthy mix of luck, skill, preparation, and the fact that he not being magical isn't technically "weak" against the wyrmspawn.

[claymade]

I always figured that the stuff of legends is mostly just that - legends. The legend will state that Ranma destroyed an army in one strike, and omit the rest. Perhaps even make the technique he used into his weapon - something like a 'Spear of Ascending Dragon' or something. On the other hand, if you, as the author, state that Ranmaverse!Karna is that much more badass, and his mythical feats are to be taken literally - that's cool too.

Well, I suppose I'm not putting my foot down and saying that it's all absolutely true. Stuff like Karna's arrows rocking a chariot containing the weight of the entire universe, for example, would probably put him higher than makes sense for this world, and would give him good odds against even things like freaking Metallia. So there was probably a good bit of legend-creep.

But however much inflation there was, I still wouldn't say that the NWC are actually themselves as good as revered-for-millenia warriors like that (yet) even if those warriors did grow in the telling. I don't actually want Ranma to be quite that level of outlier for the purposes of this story, and one of the things I liked about the Ranma 1/2 manga is that it really avoided that more than most shonen series do.

While I have really liked this chapter, unless Kazuo is leaving out some decisive detail, I'm sceptical about that creature being a worse menace than Chaos, a cosmic entity.

It's certainly not a "worse" menace per se, in terms of the overall, raw damage it can do to the cosmos and such. It wasn't ever intended by its creators to be that; it was intended for the specific purpose of killing that era's Serenity.

Even though the crature was specifically to kill Sailor Moon's grandmother and mother, Usagi is nothing like them, she's essentially the avatar of the universe.

That's actually more the manga; the anime never really has her as being that. Of course, if this story were a crossover with the Sailor Moon manga instead of the Sailor Moon anime then by most accounts NWC would not have stood a chance at any point; they'd have been massacred without much fanfare at pretty much the first encounter, because the two are quite different kettles of fish in a lot of respects.

How is possible that Kazuo fighted such a monster alone for even a short amount of time?

Well, his method of attacking doesn't rely on magic, and all he had to do was drive it back to where he wanted it, not actually kill it. And he knew what he was going to be up against, so he had the opportunity to prepare. Grandma Serenity, on the other hand, didn't know what she was up against, and tried to fight it like normal, only to realize too late that magic just fundamentally didn't even affect the thing.

Well a loose interpretation would be that the Wyrmspawn is to Chaos as Doomsday is to Darkseid. Both are dangerous. One is just dangerous on a personal level.

That's a very good analogy.

[Mr L]

Ah, now I understand, just I never liked the concept of magic like a seperated force, annulling magic has aways felt like turning off the gravity, or taking a souls away from the body, to me. However the plot is still more interesting than that.

Out of curiosity, have you read a series called A Certain Magical Index?In one of the last light novels, an instoppeable being is completely isolated from everything, avoiding every kind of stimules and perceptions to neutralize it.

And why does the Wyrmspawn affect all the Serenity? Is it genetic?Thank s for clearing my doubts.

[claymade]

Ah, now I understand, just I never liked the concept of magic like a seperated force, annulling magic has aways felt like turning off the gravity, or taking a souls away from the body, to me.

I can understand that. Heh, I guess for me personally, what with the way magic usually plays havoc with the usual physical laws, I don't particularly mind seeing anti-magic give it a taste of its own medicine.

Out of curiosity, have you read a series called A Certain Magical Index?In one of the last light novels, an instoppeable being is completely isolated from everything, avoiding every kind of stimules and perceptions to neutralize it.

I've heard of the series, and read descriptions of it in various places, even read a crossover fic that featured it once, but never really watched/read any of the installments of the actual series.

And why does the Wyrmspawn affect all the Serenity? Is it genetic?Thank s for clearing my doubts.

Well, to clarify, it's not Serenity only, despite the fact that she was the target, and the reason they made the Wyrmspawn. Because they wanted to kill her (and overwhelmingly powerful magic is her weapon) they created something immune to magic, as a way to attempt getting a "hard counter" for her. But despite the fact that it was made to target Serenity, stuff like Ekim's magic or Sailor Pluto's magic wouldn't affect the creature any more than Serenity's magic would.

[Munchkin]

Great series so far.

However, in this latest chapter, the Wyrmspawn felt really out of place to me. It doesn't seem to sit well in this universe of yours. The Sailor Moon and Ranma universes are ruled by Magic, Ki and physics, and they all have somewhat well-defined behaviours.

Due to the new inclusion of "anti-magic" to negate any magic used on it, being powered - or supported - by anti-magic, it wouldn't be able to use magic to negate the laws of reality as shown in the Sailor Moon series, without becoming susceptible to magic itself. Without the defence of magic, this means it would have to be susceptible to attacks using physics, even if protected by Ki. If it can move, it can't be made of anything too strong or dense, as its substance would have to be able to alter its atomic structure in one or more dimensions in order to flex, and in order to flex itself there must be a flow of energy. Therefore, while it could still redirect force, it couldn't be impervious to energy. It's also been described as being vulnerable to cold, so there must be an outward flow of energy, indicating that energy does indeed flow through it. So just do the opposite of cooling it and nuke it, or use a similarly high yield explosive device on it, to heat it to a few hundred thousand degrees or more. At that temperature its atoms will have so much energy it will have no choice except to fly apart due to overcoming the strong nuclear force. And you can drop a bomb on it from a very large distance, so it won't react to the presence of life.

I'd imagine that the organisation, and the dragons and Senshi of the past, would have thought about something so mundane to destroy it!

I think it needs something to explain how it can be so ridiculously impervious while still not using the usual rules of this universe. It would probably be fine if Kazuo simply mentions that they haven't found out what makes it tick yet - they've ruled out magic and ki, yet it still shows an ability to bend physics, and how fascinating and tantalising it is that there's something else out there, but they can't work out what.

Unless of course I have completely misunderstood, and it's supposed to be susceptible

[claymade]

Great series so far.

Thanks! Glad you're liking it!

If it can move, it can't be made of anything too strong or dense, as its substance would have to be able to alter its atomic structure in one or more dimensions in order to flex, and in order to flex itself there must be a flow of energy.

This--while quite true!--is (IMHO) a bit like pointing out that there's no feasible material that would actually make the physics of what giant mecha do in most series realistic either. Or that the Square-Cube Law would realistically defeat Godzilla long before the JSDF ever had a chance to. Or that it doesn't make scientific, realistic, conservation-of-energy sense for Goku to be able to tank planet-obliterating blasts based on a "life force energy" ultimately fueled by ordinary digestive processes. All of the above are "unrealistic" for our universe, without any doubt, but those shows aren't actually much diminished for blithely ignoring that fact.

And if you think those are bad, remember that I'm setting this in the Ranma 1/2 universe. A universe where you can, to take one example, be rendered immune to fire attacks by having all the moisture in your body boiled away. And said losing of moisture, by the way, doesn't actually even kill you, but instead turns you into a tiny doll-form from which you can be revived by getting more water back to you in time. That is a demonstrable phenomenon that happens in their world.

The laws of physics in the Ranmaverse are pants-on-head crazy. "Incredibly durable monster" in such a setting is (on the scale of sins against real-world science and plausibility) a bit like a jaywalking violation on the rap sheet of Doctor Doom.

In this particular case, the Wyrmspawn is insanely durable, both because it has an immensely powerful life force, and because it was crafted to be that way, its body formed into "really durable stuff" by its creators when they performed the ritual to spawn it. Sadly, I can't give a real-world molecular breakdown of its hide, such that would give it the performance characteristics it functions under... except to say that it's just really, really, really tough.

[Munchkin]

Okay, point made .

[Spica75]

This--while quite true!--is (IMHO) a bit like pointing out that there's no feasible material that would actually make the physics of what giant mecha do in most series realistic either.

Oh don´t worry, that´s coming. Well at least enough to manage what SOME mecha do.

The laws of physics in the Ranmaverse are pants-on-head crazy.

(and i really have to get reading your story again some day so i can catch up, falling waaay behind darnit!)

[claymade]

Oh don´t worry, that´s coming. Well at least enough to manage what SOME mecha do.

That's true, it does vary depending on the series. Constructing something to the tune of Macross is certainly more plausible than something to the tune of, say, Gurren Lagann on the opposite extreme.

[Fellow Sufferer]

I just hope to see Cortheia and Lesp again. I miss those guys.

[claymade]

I just hope to see Cortheia and Lesp again. I miss those guys.

Hmm, I don't know for sure if I'll have it that the Reset brought back anyone on the Dark Kingdom side. I mean, at that point, where do you draw the line? Is the Darkmistress back too? What about Nephrite? That's a whole 'nother bundle of wax that I don't know if I really have the space to tackle with everything else that's going on.

[Fellow Sufferer]

Hmm, I don't know for sure if I'll have it that the Reset brought back anyone on the Dark Kingdom side. I mean, at that point, where do you draw the line? Is the Darkmistress back too? What about Nephrite? That's a whole 'nother bundle of wax that I don't know if I really have the space to tackle with everything else that's going on.

But you said is yourself: Reset was smart. It decided who got to keep the memories and who didn't, it left the curses alone, it allowed fighters to keep their improved conditioning and muscle memories of their techniques... Plus, it kept the leader of the Silk Lotus Tribe from possessing a child's body. Perhaps in case of youma it, too, was somewhat selective, while acting in accordance with Usagi's wish?

You can take a page from manga - there the four generals went on and became spiritual advisers to Mamoru, as far as I know (though they were rarely consulted, afaik). Darkmistress may prove to be a problem... or she could've been dispatched as a show of force by Kazuo (or Zhang) in order to cower the rest into compliance. Or she can be used as a quick measure to show how much our heroes have grown since last meeting her - I would think that even Shampoo could take her by now.

Just some suggestions off the top of my head. Feel free to ignore them - far would it be from me to lecture you what to write ^_^.

[claymade]

But you said is yourself: Reset was smart. It decided who got to keep the memories and who didn't, it left the curses alone, it allowed fighters to keep their improved conditioning and muscle memories of their techniques... Plus, it kept the leader of the Silk Lotus Tribe from possessing a child's body. Perhaps in case of youma it, too, was somewhat selective, while acting in accordance with Usagi's wish?

Indeed, the Wish definitely was selective... but on the other hand, Lesp and Cortheia weren't really particularly good either. The closest thing they really had to a redeeming feature was they had something besides themselves they did actually care about, but that much could be said for Kunzite, for Zoisite, for Beryl herself, and even for an infamous European dictator who I'll not name for fear of invoking the specter of Goodwin. The two youma were, in the end, unapologetically out to dominate, enslave and feed off of all humanity down to the last man, woman and child, and they never really had the slightest qualm about that part of things. So it'd be hard to have a criteria for Usagi's wish that'd bring those two back without bringing back pretty close to everybody on the Dark Kingdom side along with.

Which isn't to say it couldn't work that way; I can totally buy that her Wish (potentially) might've wanted to do exactly that. Or not, depending on how it worked, and how much juice she was able to put into it.

But in deciding between the two ways it could have gone, it's just that each person added to the mix: Nephrite, Kunzite, Zoisite, Beryl, Darkmistress... they all become extra plot threads that I'd have to resolve. Bringing them back would put me in the position of either trying to sweep them all back under the rug again quickly in a way that has minimal story impact (which feels kinda meh: "oh yeah, btw, they came back to life! and then died again, which is why they aren't actually around.") or actually dealing with those plot threads in a more thorough way in a cast that's already oversaturated with characters. I mean, think about what a huge impact, even just in terms of character interactions and such, that Beryl alone being alive would bring.

I'd have to address it. Worse, I'd have to address it in ways that feel appropriate and fitting to the level of impact characters like that would have. It's a can of worms--granted, a potentially fascinating can of worms what with how she'd interact with Serenity and Endymion now--but a huge can of worms nonetheless. Just because something is a really fascinating concept in isolation doesn't mean it won't cause problems for the larger fic if included.

Now take that, and multiply it by just about every Dark Kingdom character who died in the series. I mean, heck, look at how long the chapters are getting already, with just the plot threads that are being juggled right now, and I've actually cut several plot threads already from my original outline.

I'll keep the concept in mind, and see if anything germinates in my thought process that would make it click... but right now it just seems a LOT of plot overhead to incur for the end result of giving Lesp and Cortheia a cameo. Even as enjoyable as they were to write.