Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

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Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
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HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
18
50%
kenichi would win
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kenichi would win
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i dont know
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i dont know
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Total votes : 36

Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby toushin » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:15 am

i had to put this here because i came across a forum with this topic and was astonished to see what the results so i just couldn't rest untill i asked the question myself.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Dumbledork » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:56 am

Ranma would win. No doubt about it.
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:09 pm

10 years near lethal taining and able to hold his own against multi centenarian Masters Vs talent and training that lets you be tops in a highschool... World Class Vs Best in Class. Did you even have to ask?
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Konsaki » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:00 pm

Shirahama Kenichi would get his ass kicked 9 ways to Sunday, no questions asked. Even if you put Ranma back at the beginning of the manga, he's got more than a decade of training under his belt and he could always go 'girl' just to jack around with Kenichi's stupid morals.
Kenichi might have trained in martial arts under his hellish masters, but Ranma bled, breathed and basked in it under his father's hellish training regime...
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Wyrd » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:10 pm

Ranma would ask for the dojo location and try to get some training from them after kicking Kenichi's ass and then learning how short of a time he had been studying. He's always looking for new training regimes, and descriptions that start at 'hellish' and go downhill from there would put a little sparkle in Ranma's eyes.

Unless, of course, you are writing the story from the Mightiest disciple's standpoint and really like the character and just have to have him win against all opponents... Still not believable, but I could see someone writing it.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Konsaki » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Wyrd wrote:Unless, of course, you are writing the story from the Mightiest disciple's standpoint and really like the character and just have to have him win against all opponents...
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby camk4evr » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:18 am

toushin wrote:i had to put this here because i came across a forum with this topic and was astonished to see what the results so i just couldn't rest untill i asked the question myself.


I'm kind of curious. What were the results on the other forum?

And just so everyone knows I think Akane and Kuno (the weakest martial artists of the regulars) could defeat Kenichi at least until the end of the second season of the anime (haven't read the manga so I don't know how strong he gets).
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:04 am

I think just from having to survive Nerima Hiroshi and Daisuke(sp) could probably win a fair fight against Kenichi. Its just a much more charged/empowered environment.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby toushin » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:25 pm

that with techniques like Seikūken and Ryuusei Seikuken ranma's speed and strength would be rendered mute. and that there was no way ranma could keep up with kenichi in endurance. there were a few people who rooted for ranma but it was mainly for kenichi
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:37 pm

Don't you mean moot? And even with the "Ultimate Weakness" Ranma was still managing to do pushups with more than his bodyweight in igneous rock on his back. When it came off he clearly threw what was shown to be a solid concrete grounds roller of 1/2 meter in diameter. Look those up that is a couple tons in concrete. Or for solid Polymer its still 3/4 ton. As an unthinking reaction.

I'm not sure the other environment has people who have looked into just how over the top and ridiculous some of the inconsistencies in Ranma 1/2 are. But they still add up to a Win for Ranma.
Strength
R>K

Speed
R>K

Skill
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Experience
R>K

The only way for the Deciple to win is if his style is too unorthodox for Ranma to figure it out in the first fight.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Nekomata-sensei » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:41 pm

I'd say Kenichi in the manga just recently reached near the level Ranma was at at the beginning of the manga, at least strong enough to beat starting Kuno. He surpassed Akane somewhat recently, although it is hard to tell. I would _not_ say he has surpassed Kuno yet, even if I think he could beat him pretty easily due to Kuno's restrictive fighting style, and the fact Kenichi can defend himself for a bit while facing true kenjutsu masters trying to kill him.

Ranma beating Kenichi is more up in the air. I think Ranma is 'master' level in terms of strength and speed compared to the Kenichi setting, possibly even higher in toughness, although not as high as Miu's Grandfather in anything. I would however, question if he is actually at Kenchi's 'skill' level, in terms of pure martial arts, if their strength and speed were equal and Ranma couldn't use special techniques, I think Kenichi would be able to beat Ranma by the time he learns the second stage seikuken(sp?) training, possibly even the 1st stage of it. Ranma also appears to be a Sei type fighter, who has more trouble facing other Sei types like Cologne and Mousse to be, and is better at facing Do types like Happosai, Genma, Akane, Kuno, Ryoga, etc. partly because he is more used to facing them, and his fighting style involves provoking his opponent into anger and distraction. Given that Kenichi is a Sei type and has mastered the 2nd stage seikuken(sp?) training, he'd be able to read, counter, and predict Ranma's every move, while Ranma wouldn't be able to play his normal defensive provoking game. I'd say that the current Kenichi might even be able to beat the starting-manga Ranma, although Ranma would likely have him beaten in speed, and by a lesser degree in strength, and already has some advanced level stealth and wall walking type stuff, plus the girl form to trick Kenichi if Ranma got desperate and water was available.

Miu though, I think would probably kick Ranma's butt. Ranma might be able to fight girls better than Kenichi, but provoking Miu wouldn't make her distracted, it would make her get stronger, given the way she was trained, and while she doesn't have as many tricks, she appears to be stronger than and much more skilled than Shampoo, and probably slightly higher than girl-Ranma's strength. Ranma would probably only be able to beat her using the HSH or Moukou Takabisha, or trying to overpower or outspeed her if it is later in the manga for Ranma. Early manga Ranma would just get crushed by Miu completely, probably as easily as Ranma could crush Akane at that point.

Any of the masters from Ryozampaku could probably defeat Ranma, unless he was being really sneaky and fighting really dirty, and unsealed the umi-sen-ken, and even then, it would depend on which master he was facing. Even end of manga Ranma would never stand any chance against Miu's grandfather no matter what he did. But then again, it isn't really a fair comparison, as Miu's Grandfather's power level appears to be 'OVER 9000!', or something along those lines.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby mondu_the_fat » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:11 am

Ranma beating Kenichi is more up in the air. I think Ranma is 'master' level in terms of strength and speed compared to the Kenichi setting, possibly even higher in toughness, although not as high as Miu's Grandfather in anything. I would however, question if he is actually at Kenchi's 'skill' level, in terms of pure martial arts, if their strength and speed were equal and Ranma couldn't use special techniques, I think Kenichi would be able to beat Ranma by the time he learns the second stage seikuken(sp?) training, possibly even the 1st stage of it.


Ranma is fast and strong and has special techniques, because he trained. I'm not sure why this is not "skill" to you, or what kind of logic is "well, if you take away all his martial arts advantages, he has less skill." I'm not even sure what you mean by "pure martial arts," because the ability to hit fast, endure, and techniques is part of martial arts.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby toushin » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:01 am

what you have to realize is that while on the surface ranma's and kenichi's fighting style may look similar they aren't. kenichi's style is layers upon layer's of basic techniques that are then heavily fortified with endurace training. even then his focus is still only on seven styles. Karate, Jujitsu, Chinese Kenpō, Muay Thai, Weapons, and the unnamed Fuurinji Style. even his strongest moves are nothing more then combinations on the basics that he learned.

ranma on the other hand both canon and fanon is about learning and adapting basically anything you can through training or even on the fly. there is really no telling how many styles and techniques he actually knows. so all of the basic techniques that kenichi knows would be completly useless.

as for Seikūken and Ryuusei Seikuken ranma has shown abilities that imitate if not out surpass these techniques. if you remember the bakusai tenketsu arc ranma was using something similar to the Seikūken to avoid getting hit by rocks. even before that he was able to do things like dogde strikes in his sleep as well as those he cant even see. kenichi has to be completly calm in a state of satori if you will to use Ryuusei Seikuken, but for ranma using his sixth sense is completely natural. plus ranma's ability to see a technique once and either analyse how it is done or learning it out right puts him way above kenichi who has to have every thechnique tortured into his body.

as for sei and dou ranma merely had trouble with mousse at first becuase it was such a unique fighting style as you see with every other crazy martial arts in ranma, and cologne becuase she has 300/100 years of experience. i think ranma merely uses sei as a preference he likes to use just enough skill to defeat a person if that level isn't enough he raises it. once again i go to the bakusai tenketsu arc. ranma had no idea just how fast he had gotten and was truly surprised that ryoga was doing so poorly. the saotome secret technique is the perfect example of this if what your doing is not working you buy time to think of something else. in actuality i think ranma is a dou fighter. take the love rod arc for example that had two instances in the manga were ranma was truly angry and in no other time before or after that had ryoga shown any fear towards ranma. yet is that moment he was deadly afraid that he was about to die.

in conclusion in ranma vs Miu ranma is obviously better in the beginning they were about even in Destructive Capacity, Durability, Strength, and Stamina maybe ranma being a little faster. even before the kachu tenshin arigumiken training he was able to throw 500 punches in a matter of seconds but mui can only through 6 in a second. by the end of the manga ranmas states are on par with that of the masters even surpassing a few. in turms of skill i say they are most likely even becuase both basically have had the same training. while ranma's was tough because becuase genma was an idiot that either took the easy way out( swimimng to china, selling ranma and steeling him back) or made it more unbarable then it needed to be( neke-ken) mui's was tough because it was tough. i have to give it to ranma becuase he seems to be on a higher level them her. he is able to utilize his sixth sense while mui seems unable to. mui reactss to being attack while ranma reacts before he's attacked. i.e while your attacking ranma has already moved but mui only reacts the moment your attack hits negating it and turning it against you.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:15 am

If Ranma were to wait to react until after the hit made contact even Akane would defeat him all the time just from how hard she hits.
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Re: Shirahama Kenichi Vs. Saotome Ranma

Postby Wyrd » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:02 pm

Spokavriel wrote: If Ranma were to wait to react until after the hit made contact even Akane would defeat him all the time just from how hard she hits.


You know, Akane deserves more credit than she gets for being a very skilled martial artist. The problem is that she is in the top .5% of martial artists in the world while dealing almost exclusively with the top .1% of martial artists. There are quite a few points where she makes a strong showing, but in many respects she is like Krillin in Dragonball and Dragonball Z: immensely skilled and powerful, but hanging around those who are inhumanly skilled and powerful. I haven't watched much of the anime, so I have to go on other people's comments that she is treated far worse than in the manga and tends to be far more unlikable, but she still should receive some credit for being really good. Akane losing to Ranma is in large part the fact that they study sister styles, meaning that Ranma knows her moves better than those of anyone else he ever fights(except his dad, who uses the exact same school he does), and their personal styles are such that Ranma is almost ideally suited to fight her. Kuno Tatewaki is also really good, just not as good as Ranma. Don't let your dislike of the character cause you to underrate their abilities.
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