Pronouns and Ranma

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How do you determine which pronoun to use for Ranma?

Poll ended at Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:35 pm

It depends on which body they're using at the time.
15
34%
It depends on which body they're using at the time.
15
34%
It depends on how they see themselves, regardless of what body they're using.
4
9%
It depends on how they see themselves, regardless of what body they're using.
4
9%
I just refer to them as being an "it." That makes things so much easier.
0
No votes
I just refer to them as being an "it." That makes things so much easier.
0
No votes
I can't make up my mind.
3
7%
I can't make up my mind.
3
7%
I don't pay particular attention to this detail, so it's never been an issue.
0
No votes
I don't pay particular attention to this detail, so it's never been an issue.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 44

Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:35 pm

This is just something that I'm curious about. I can't make up my mind, so I tend to switch between what body he's using and how he sees himself.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:20 am

I don't see one that exactly fits what I go with. I tend to prefer one that fits what form is being described in the situation/sentence.

Say Ranma is saying or thinking about an event she experienced as a he. I would have it described as his experience because she wasn't a she in that moment being thought or talked about even if she is at the moment.

Like say Ranma in girl form talking about his actions at Jusenkyo before going into the springs. It varies from moment to moment but unless its a clear thinking sentences to ones self moment I try to keep it that way.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:42 am

The first fits exactly what you want because of the "at the time" qualifier. I made sure to cover that base. ;p

Man, you reminded me of how troublesome it is to use pronouns for now and then scenarios. That's why I avoid them as much as I can. It takes me long enough to construct easy sentences. X_X
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:15 am

But its the time being talked/thought about in what I described instead of what s\he currently is. Some people just go with what is true for the current form constantly even when s\he is talking about events that occurred to him/her while the other gender. So its two different applications and your option description seems to fit most with the lazier route.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:38 am

No; "at the time" applies to both, in this context. It can refer to both "now" and "then." It shouldn't even be an argument. Especially since "at the time" most often used to express past tense, not present tense (which is what you're choosing to see it as). ;/

Heck, just take my word for it. What could it hurt? It's better than arguing, I imagine.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:04 am

What I am trying to say is that there are two different ways people are using At the time.

The time is either the time being discussed/considered.
Or
The time is always what is now.

The first one seems more accurate because whatever sex was being used at the time being considered is what was or is. The second one is kinda lazy and ends up with Ranma using all the pronouns for the current in story moment gender no matter what the gender was at the time being talked/thought about.

Both ways happen and don't really fit into the other categories on your list.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby frice2000 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:43 am

It depends on which body they're using at the time.

It depends on how they see themselves, regardless of what body they're using.


I think the best way to go is to combine those two options. When you're describing him/her and its not someone talking about or thinking about him/her you should use the gender the person is at the moment. When someone is describing him/her or thinking about him/her you should use the gender they identify him/her as.

That said I voted for the first option because its the one I think fits the best. Can't really use 'it' for him/her because that just dehumanizes him.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:17 pm

You can't combine those two options. If Ranma identified himself as a girl, but was in the male body at the time, or vice versa, what would you call him? ^^;

Spokavriel wrote: What I am trying to say is that there are two different ways people are using At the time.

And that's what I'm trying to say. It can be used both ways, and it's not restricted to using one at a time: the meaning is the same either way.

Come on, people. =_=;
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:32 pm

What I'm saying is lumping those two different ways of at the time together is taking what I consider most of the best stories and lumping in most of the worst written Ranma fics I have seen. It makes for an overwhelming majority by default and will skew results making it so that even asking is kinda pointless.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:01 pm

Now you've lost me completely, aside from not knowing what that has to do with the question in the poll. :?
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:05 pm

::Groan:: never mind. The only ways to spell it out are more convoluted and who knows if you would remember enough of the fics written that are out there for you to get it anyway. After all you repeatedly have said you don't really read fanfics.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Konsaki » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Personally, I change pronouns for Ranma based off his physical body at the time. Of course, I don't really care too much if another writer does it differently, but this also makes it easier to keep track of what form Ranma is in at any current time.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:10 pm

Spokavriel wrote: ::Groan:: never mind. The only ways to spell it out are more convoluted and who knows if you would remember enough of the fics written that are out there for you to get it anyway. After all you repeatedly have said you don't really read fanfics.
The problem isn't that you need to spell it out, but that it makes no sense regardless of whether you do or not. In part because the question posed has nothing to do with character perspective, which you've somehow assumed, not us as observers. The question was: how do you determine which pronoun to use for Ranma? It's not about how others determine it, how others write it, or even how you would write it (though that's fine). Now, as far as "it depends on which body they're using at the time" is concerned, "the" in "at the time" is not tense-specific, so it can be used interchangeably. If I had used "at this time", which is present-tense, you'd've had an argument to make; but I didn't because it simply doesn't fit within the context of the question, which doesn't ask for any specific point in time.

So, yeah. Why the quality of fan-fiction would have anything to do with this is beyond me. But, hey, I'll even show you how it can work: "Ranma was telling me a story about the time when she had been a guy. Back then, he had all sorts of problems. He didn't know what to do with himself. Now is a different story, though. By now she's sorted out a lot of those problems, and she has even made a decent living for herself." There, see? I used both past and present tense and, both to a reader and an observer, "at the time" applies because it's not tense-specific.

There's nothing else I can say to convince you otherwise, so that's it for me. I tried.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby AshK1980 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:41 pm

I chose the first option because, that is how I believe it should be done. When Ranma is in female form, I use she, when Ranma is in male form I use he.
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Re: Pronouns and Ranma

Postby Spokavriel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:43 pm

Using character perspecitve of which pronoun went with what was the case in a given situation is one of the ways. ::sigh:: Fuck it I'm just going to ignore this thread.
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