the man of steel vs the fist of god

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the man of steel vs the fist of god

super man would win
10
45%
super man would win
10
45%
kenshiro would win.
1
5%
kenshiro would win.
1
5%
 
Total votes : 22

the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby toushin » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:54 am

who would win in a fight between superman and kenshiro.

first off people forget that superman is still human its just that the he his able to convert solar energy that changes this fact. however if you take that ability away there would be nothing to distiguise him from human. another factor is that he his a brawler, which a lot of the super human charecters are in the dc universe. using his durablity to compensate for not dodging. this would put him at a huge disadvantage.

as for kenshiro here are some stats about where he was at in the begining of the series. so those stats here down increased dramatically in the 27 vols. of the series.

Evidently the Ken that faced Shin is an infinitely inferior (power wise/techniques) with the Ken that faced Kaioh.

Notice that this stats are without straining himself. Meaning that all of this is without using ki nor straining himself physically.

To give an idea, prior to his fight with Hyou, second general of the Hokuto Ryuu Ken Kenshiro moved a 100tons rock for an unknown length of time without even sweating.

Stats:
* He can resist 3 months without food nor water without any decrease in his power.

*He can ear a private conversation 2klm away.

*His sense of smelling is equal to your average bloodhound.

*He can see in the dark, also he sees the aura of any living thing.

*He can jump 9 meters (=30 feet).

*His punch can shatter a 5 meters tick boulder. (and that's _nothing_compared with what he can do if motivated.)

*His kick power can send a 200kl man some 50 meters.

*He can spend one hour underwater.

Etc...

this is taking in the fact that he grew up in a wasteland that was full of mutant., but even in the fist of the blue sky where he had just finished his training and the world was very much like our own kenshiro was able to rip apart steel bars with no problem and dodge bullts at point blank range.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Comartemis » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:17 am

Superman. Just because I'm sick of all the Kenshiro wank I see everywhere I go and you're obviously fishing for a "Kenshiro could beat Superman" answer with all the data you're providing in his favor. Also:

first off people forget that superman is still human

MASSIVE FAIL.

He can jump 9 meters

And that's supposed to be even mildly impressive? Superman can fly. At speeds suitable for interstellar travel, if memory serves.

His punch can shatter a 5 meters tick boulder. (and that's _nothing_compared with what he can do if motivated.)

Movie Superman lifts islands into orbit. Islands practically made of kryptonite, mind you, and I'm sure comics Superman has done far more impressive stuff before.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby CRBWildcat » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:03 pm

Funny, Toushin. I wasn't aware that humans had migrated to Krypton, only to return to Earth after it (Krypton) gets dusted.

Superman, without a shadow of a doubt.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Spokavriel » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:05 pm

Just on a scale of achievements. Superman dove through a volcano and re-stabilized the entire edge of a continental plate in order to keep Luthor from sinking California. Really in every single statistic you list Superman has exceeded it by a minimum factor of 10 at the weakest. Factor not multiple.

The character you described would have a chance against Superman if

1 he attacked during that brief time where Superman gave up his powers for the sake of Lois Lane.

2 in addition to that wore a suit completely made out of cryptonite and

3 did it while Superman had the flu and was bedridden.

Then he might just might be able to give Superman a bruise.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby toushin » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:54 pm

i merely used him as human to stress the fact that the same pressure points that effect us will effect him. for those of you that dont know let me give you a you can find a description of hokuto shin ken here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokuto_Shinken

kenshiro would not try to match superman in strength there would be no point. he would use pressure point technique of hokuto no shinken on him and with the way superman fights by the time he relieses that he should keep his distance it would be to late.

here are some more stats for the non believers
Satsuki
It's the killing ki. More than an energy is a feeling that goes whit the intent of killing and almost anybody can generate that kind of power, yet it's also a weapon in some cases. One of the elements that make a Hokuto Shin Ken heir is the ability to generate huge quantities of killing ki but it must be a part of the person, not something that they wish to expel. Think something like the natural aura that some things have. Another detail is that several beings (like animals) can feel that aura that can drive some to insanity if it's powerful enough. For instance in the last test to choose a heir between Kenshiro and Raoh a giant tiger was unleashed against them. Without moving and using the concept of the Hokuto Shin Ken as a killing fist they had to repulse the huge predator. When facing Ken, this one releasing the satsuki forced the tiger to admit that it was its death to attack Kenshiro. The tiger surrounded allowing Ken to pat it a mark of the killing potential in Kenshiro. As for Raoh the tiger attacked him in answering to the violence in Raoh's aura, a violence that made him kill the tiger beheading it. That point in the story showed the basic difference between the two characters. Raoh is generally called the star of violence in answer to his desire to rule trough it in his desire to forge a new era from the ashes of the old world, destroyed in the nuclear holocaust. Kenshiro, as the true heir of the Hokuto Shin Ken is an assassin, he brings death as part of his destiny but only in answer to the times were he lives in, to the madness of men, while protecting the weakest ones. Beings as Kenshiro or Ranma/Ryuken are emitting satsuki almost continuously in enormous quantities but are restraining it at a conscious level.

Touki.
The ki of battle. In the HnK world there are few beings able to reach that particular energy. In most of the cases the touki must come from a character that must have felt a such powerful rage and cruelty, such bloodlust, that it overwhelms any other feeling. Its akin to the process that goes within a Sayajin when he reaches for the first time the level of Super Sayan. The characters that achieved that state of power are the following: Kenshiro (after he lost Yuria and once killing Shin), Raoh (he was monster of power, of the scale as his blood was the most cruel), Toki, Fudo (he was a killing machine before meeting Yuria), Falco, Han, Hyou and of course Kaioh (that guy was a public danger!) corrupted beyond madness by the evil of the Hokuto Ryuu Ken. Also Ranma/Ryuken when loosing Rea and Yado. Once harassed that power you can produce a battle aura. This aura allows the user to reach new levels of destructive power and believe me you would not like being near one of those auras unleashed... They will not find a single trace of you. Yet this power, or the use of any kind of touki form (blasts and the like), is not used in the regular battles. This is for several reasons one of them being that they don't _need_ it. And if they used it... I would compare it to a star going nova but without reducing its mass after the expansion instead continuously growing. To resume I would say that touki is a specific ki for battles, way more destructive, the key for real power (TouShin= God of Battle level) not needing any emotion burst to use it once you reached that level.

Matouki.
Touki's counterpart. If Touki is the supreme energy for battle only used by an handful of chosen then Matouki is the opposite of that energy. Those chosen are the heirs of the schools that form what was known as the Hokuto Shoke School. At the beginning(**), some 2000 years ago, the Hokuto Shoke was divided between Hokuto Shin ken and Hokuto Ryuu ken. If the first one uses the touki then Hokuto Ryuu Ken, with three heirs (Rashyou), uses the dark half of the touki power. That aura as powerful as the power of the Touki can actually drive the user insane, becoming a rampaging killer, without any hold on reality until he is stopped, generally by a near-death blow. In that state it is said that the one maddened by the Matouki has reached hell, his facial features transmuting into those of a monster. Once the user becomes insane he reaches the level of Majin or God of Black Magic as the Hokuto Ryuu Ken with the time incorporated dark magic on his teachings (mantras and the like; words of power). Theoretically a user of the Hokuto Shin ken _can_ use Matouki, yet the effects upon the world would be devastating.


Proprieties of the Hokuto Shin Ken.
Apart from the strength of the Hokuto Shin Ken heirs that increases with battles an as times passes there is another important propriety. I have already stressed in the strength, speed and overall physical capabilities of the users of the Hokuto Shin Ken and other Holy Schools. But there is one thing that is sole of the Hokuto Shin Ken. Like the Hokuto Ryuu Ken that is unmatched in its manipulation of the matouki (and, by extension, of the touki) allowing them to create distortions of space and gravity where their enemies are in a position of weakness (it allowed Kaioh to find a defense against the Musoutensei!). Each school (Nanto, Hokuto [Shin and Ryuu], Gento) has some special particularity that gives them an edge, that can be neutralized (if you survive). The Hokuto is maybe the best of them all; a system that allows the Hokuto Shin Ken heir to neutralize any fighting style, any power used against them. When a Hokuto Shin Ken heir is fighting an adversary his body is at the same time, in an automatic response, analyzing the other fighter style, finding its secrets, later appearing as a knowledge of how to defeat that same opponent or his technique. If he is defeated in the next fight his adversary's technique will loose all offensive power because his attack and its possibilities and potential are already known. That's why after Kenshiro was soundly defeated by Kaioh he was able to find a block to the Anryuu Tenha and the Hokuto Ryuu Ken moves and powers based in the matouki.

List of attacks



-Hokuto Senjukai Ken (Thousand Hand Destruction Fist): similar to the Hokuto Hyakuretsu

Ken but instead of sending several hundred punches it's an instant thousand strikes... leaves

the Amaguriken's speed in the dirt.



-Jikyuukyou: a hikou/tsubo that takes away depth perception or coordination between the

information coming from the eyes and the brain. You can't calculate the space between

things.



An example if you want to grasp something coming at you, like a dagger you will miss

because the information coming from the eyes is wrong, with the distance between your hand

and the dagger wrong.



-Hokuto Kuretsu Ha (Hokuto Steel-rending Grasp): a moves that allows a Hokuto Shin ken

fighter to dig his fingers even in the more hard of matters, generally used upon fighters with

body hardening techniques in order to destroy parts of their bodies they could use as weapons.



-Hokuto Hachimon Kyuudan (Eight Agony, Ninth Break): as the name indicates its an attack

that will make the victim feel like eight moments of agony before the ninth kills him. Under the

effects of it any contact between the skin and flesh would result on a massive shock to the

nervous system unleashing incredible amounts of pain. After the attack is unleashed the victim

could die if another strike is used.



Example:



Kenshiro in his fight against Jaggy, one of his elder brothers, uses it.



Kenshiro then threatens to use an arrow on him but that would have killed Jaggy by sheer

pain overload on his heart (it can explode from it) and brain.



For more details see down.



-Meimon: a hikou/tsubo near the middle of the spine that once active makes the muscles of the

back to contract beyond their limits, slowly bending the body until it is torn in half, roughly in

a minute.



-Hokuto Goukin Bundan Kyaku (Hokuto Steel Muscle Cutting Kick): weakens muscles.

Think of it as something akin to the monoxibustion technique but far more refined as it allows

to choose how much strength you want to leave in the muscles of the adversary.



-Nanto Hakurou Ken (South Dipper White Heron Fist): it's the sole Nanto style that uses

kicks into the killing blows. Even if it's a killing style it's the one that is the less lethal of the

five Nanto killing styles. That doesn't mean that the user can't use his hands to do so, he can

but the heron fist power is more in the powerful kicks.



-Nanto Rekkyaku Zanjin (Fury Foot Beheading Position): a rotating attack ideal to kill several

enemies surrounding you, generally beheading them even if the real effect is more like cutting

the heads in several horizontal pieces using the void waves of the Nanto.



-Musou Insatsu (Nil-Thought Shadow Kill): more than a move it's a natural reaction that is

deeply integrated in the reflexes of the Hokuto Shin Ken user.



As soon (and that's a matter of seconds) as you feel even the slightest trace of your enemy

move, your leg shoots backwards, destroying your enemy without having the need of looking

backwards.



You feel, you attack, you kill.



-Heiketsushuu: a hikou/tsubo that stops heart.



-Shinfukumen: a hikou/tsubo that once used makes any physical movement (walk, lift

something, jump, etc...) means the total destruction of the body.



-Zushou: a hikou/tsubo that simply kill.



-Jinchuuukyoku: a hikou/tsubo that once used disintegrates the body in three seconds



-Zenha: a hikou/tsubo that stops the breathing. Once that happens (death) the body explodes.



-Hokuto Kaikotsu Ken (Bone Crushing Fist): two fingers to the forehead and the skeleton rips

itself out of the body.



-Gazan Ryouzan Ha (Mountain Split Fissure wave): without touching them the mountains

split apart. Basically without touching the head the power behind the move splits in half the

skull of the enemy.



In later vols of HnK Ken is able to do so, with even more damage, with a simple slap in the

head. It can even be used as a retarded attack: once used the victim can go normally for some

minutes (the time for you to sneak out of the area) before his head his broken in two.



-Taizan Tenrou Ken (Mt. Tai Heaven-Wolf Fist): this is not a move from the Hokuto Shin

Ken.



The users of the techniques of the Tai mountain little by little ended corrupted by the new

times that dawned with the nuclear holocaust. Under Raoh's reign those men used those

powers to defend towns in quality of mercenaries or as elite soldiers for the King of the Fight.



Ryouga was one of those but he served Raoh believing that this one's strength would help to

forge a new, better word.



The brother of Yuria, he wondered why did she choose Kenshiro as her mate.



That question; who between Raoh the violence unleashed or Kenshiro the protector was the

one that would bring the new era and thus a brighter future to the world pushed him to fight

Kenshiro after having left a trail of innocent blood behind him, even attacking the dying Toki

in order to see Ken's rage and power.



Ken faced Ryouga and defeated him only to discover that before becoming a "demonic wolf"

Ryouga had sliced his stomach effectively putting an end to his life. He resisted his own death

only to be able to fight ken. Later he died along with Toki that even dead had been able to

give a last message to Ken.



Both gave their souls to Kenshiro, promising to protect him from the Heavens.



Ryouga's star; the Heavenly Wolf, is the star that in case of war, calls and guides the Fist of

the North Star to the battle when the Tentei and God request it.



Ryouga fulfilled that destiny before dying.



As for the fighting style, it's a move so fast that not only scoops flesh from the body but do

it so quickly that the blood last some time to come out. For some moments the body doesn't

bleed, leaving a sensation of cold before the blood burst from the wounds.



By then the enemy is already dead, not only for the blood and flesh loss but also for the shock

in his system.



The main attack is the "Tenrou Touka Ken" (Heaven Wolf Freezing Fist) with the effects

before mentioned.



-Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken (Hundred Crack Fist): Ken's usual attack. You know the

""Atatatatata!!"" attack that he usually uses against all the weak bad guys before killing them.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby CRBWildcat » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 pm

If we wanted all the details, we would've looked up them up on our own.

Anyhow, using him as human isn't the same as saying that he "is" human; they may look similar to Kryptonians, but that's all they have in common. And it's not like close-range combat is all Superman can do. Just ask Lex Luthor. 8)
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby toushin » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:21 pm

but close combat would be his first choice when he goes up against someone who looks like your average superhuman. plus his powers are more the results of evolution then physialogy. his people evolved on a planet where their sun produced radiation radically different from our own, and while under that sun there was nothing to distiguise them from a regular human.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Comartemis » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:29 pm

I say again Toushin, this is a curbstomp in Superman's favor and no amount of wanking will change that.

Realistically speaking, a battle between Superman and Kenshiro will look something like this:

Kenshiro charges Supes and hits his pressure points. Assuming Superman does not dodge said hit with his far-beyond-hypersonic movement speed and reflexes, said hit fails to even leave an indentation on the outermost layer of his epidermis: Superman's internal organs/ki flows/whatever are totally unaffected. Superman raises an eyebrow, having expected something more deadly than a fingerpoke from an "obviously superhuman" adversary, then sends Kenshiro flying several hundred meters by flicking a finger at him.

Toushin will then get the hint and cease his pathetic fan wanking before Comartemis takes this question to Spacebattles's VS Debates board and shows him exactly how stupid he's being.

End Thread.

Now if you had pit Superman against someone like, say, Dio Brando, I might be inclined to think this a slightly more even fight.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Rockman_Zero » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:17 am

The fact that you're taking two characters from two different mediums where their individual universes follow different rules... should say something about the idea in and of itself really

There's such thing as flogging a dead horse. In this instance, you've taken the dead horse and flogged it until not even bones remain. Admittedly it'd make for a cool fanart image of Supers and Kenshiro going against each other, but really... beyond that, the idea you have for a fic is really not much beyond that.

Focus less on the awesome, and more on the why... the overarching reasons... you know, an actual plot when coming up with stuff. People are more inclined to give a crap when you do that.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Dumbledork » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:30 am

Superman would win. Superman, as far as I remember, has only two major weaknesses: kryptonite and magic
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Spokavriel » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:10 am

One other that the whole "Human" premise at the beginning brought up. Sun light filtered so only the rays given off by a Red Giant star get through will allow Superman's powers to diminish over time. It only takes a whole day for him to weaken and a couple hours normal light to recover. Its far from an easily exploitable weakness and becomes something of a plot hole when Superman has adventures in other star systems.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Knight of L-sama » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:04 pm

There's also the fact that Superman's invulnerability (in comics continuity at least) comes at least partly from a skin tight forcefield.

And as Comartemis mentioned, Superman and other Kryptonians are probably the naturally fastest beings in the universe when under a yellow sun. The rest of DC's super-speedsters either get their abilities from magic (Captain Marvel and those connected with him, Wonder Woman) or a connection to the Speed Force (The Flashes, Max Mercury and so forth). The only other exception to that is Zolomon Zoom, the Reverse Flash who uses temporal manipulation to fake it and they hang Superman's speed of Flash's ie Superman is fast, but not quite as fast as The Flash.

If you want an anime character who could potentially beat Superman you'd best be looking among explicit spell casters given Big Blue's weakness to magic. My money would be on Lina Inverse having one of the best chances and that would be contingent on her being able to catch him unaware long enough to use something like Shadow Snap or Demona Crystal to hold him in place long enough to hit him with a Dragon Slave. (or just to be sure, a Chaos Magic spell).

Though thinking a bit more some of the more extreme Super Robot series (think Diebuster and Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan) might be able to output enough energy to overcome Superman's natural defences.
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Re: the man of steel vs the fist of god

Postby Comartemis » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:49 am

TTGL vs Superman is a curbstomp in the other direction. When was the last time Supes threw a galaxy at somebody?
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