The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

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In a contest of power and skill, who would win?

Poll ended at Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:20 pm

Happosai! Without certain distractions, and with enough motivation/incentive, he's a powerhouse!
4
11%
Happosai! Without certain distractions, and with enough motivation/incentive, he's a powerhouse!
4
11%
Cologne! She's reserved and crafty, so there's no telling what surprises she would have in store!
7
18%
Cologne! She's reserved and crafty, so there's no telling what surprises she would have in store!
7
18%
In the fight, they both suffer either a stroke or a heart attack. U_U Well, whatever produces a draw...
5
13%
In the fight, they both suffer either a stroke or a heart attack. U_U Well, whatever produces a draw...
5
13%
You grab your head and scream, "I DON'T KNOW!" X_X
3
8%
You grab your head and scream, "I DON'T KNOW!" X_X
3
8%
 
Total votes : 38

The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Crescent Pulsar » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:20 pm

Since I didn't see a poll for this, going as far back as two years, I figured it's safe to make one now. I have no idea when, or if, one was made before. I can only assume that, at some point, one has... Anyway, yeah, pretty straightforward and expected. You know what to do.
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:44 pm

My vote goes to Cologne. I admit Happosai might have more raw power, but he's not as dedicated to martial arts as she is, so it's possible she actually knows more techniques, and effective ones at that, then he does- even without taking into account the possibility that the only reason he got into martial arts in the first place was to:
A- be able to grope women and steal their underwear
B- avoid/fight back against men and women angry over his perverse acts
C- both A and B

Beyond that, Happosai is too impulsive and enslaved by his hedonism to really get serious in a fight, a weakness that not only does Cologne not share, but which she is aware of and able to exploit. This is the guy who, inches away from winning a fight that would see him get Ranma's female form to model a bra for him, ran away to bug a girl's sports team. He may not literally recharge from his perversion, but is a fact that being kept away from it for too long makes him weak as he goes through cold turkey- and he can only really recharge off of "pretty women". He might try on anything feminine, but it's only young women and teen girls that can truly feed the addiction.

If it comes down to that, Cologne is more likely to have useful magical items, in my opinion. The Joketsuzoku clearly had a fairly good history of making them (see the chest full of "weakness protection items", the Reversal Jewel, the Nanban Mirror, the Love Pill Bracelet)- Happosai only has whatever trinkets he's managed to successfully steal in the past and managed to avoid throwing out or losing them over the years, and his collection of "treasures" is so erratic that even he isn't really sure of what he's got lying around.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Nekomata-sensei » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:20 pm

As much as the points about Happosai's weaknesses and problems and Cologne's village's mystical advantages are true, I believe in a straight martial arts battle, where Happosai is serious, against Cologne, Happosai would win. This is because he not only seems to outmatch her in sheer power, but because he is powerful and skilled enough to have survived over the years all the powerful people he's likely pissed off with his theft of magic items and rare scrolls and harassment of young women and stealing of their undergarments. The sheer number of people Happosai has to have pissed off over the years must be huge, and some of those, given how high his skill level is, have to be at or near Cologne's power level.

In addition, there are indicators that Happosai is significantly faster than Cologne, as Ranma matches or beats her in speed by the end of the Phoenix Pill arc, but when Happosai arrives it takes some time for Ranma to catch up with him in speed, and it is still arguable if Ranma can really match Happosai's speed, but unless she is holding back a lot and playing at weakness and gullibility, she is slower than Ranma, although likely more skilled and experienced with more techniques and ki control and knowledge under her belt. Happosai also has some techniques that indicate great mastery of certain aspects of martial arts, including his finger block he uses against Taro, his maintained giant aura, and his ability to survive in the cave sealed up for all that time without food or water by entering a meditative trance, although Cologne, and soon enough Ranma seem to also have that re-direct technique for sending foes that attack them flying, that technique also indicates a pretty high level of mastery of certain aspects of martial arts. Happosai also did manage to train Soun and Genma, who can't really be considered pushovers, and outclass them so badly they are terrified of him even once they were masters themselves.

Next, while I'm sure Cologne is more dedicated to the martial arts than Happosai is, assuming that means she has a better arrangement of tricks and special techniques isn't the best assumption. Both of them likely have more techniques than they'd get through in a single serious fight, which negates most of the advantage of Cologne having more such tricks. Also, many of Cologne's techniques might only work in restricted conditions like the HSH, while Happosai seems to prefer more generalized and reliable techniques. Given the nature of the Anything Goes style Happosai created, I wouldn't underestimate the number of good tricks he has up his sleeves. Just because he is usually silly and unreliable doesn't mean his serious mode is incompetent.

That isn't to say that Cologne wouldn't stand a chance, she likely has far more ability than she has explicitly shown in the manga, and has held back appropriately to a martial artist of her level, and the fight would probably be close, but in the end if the fight were serious, I think Happosai would have the advantage.
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:47 pm

I don't deny that Happosai is most likely more powerful then Cologne, and he probably would beat her if he got serious. The main question is; would he start taking the fight seriously before Cologne managed to strike a killing blow? Happosai is pretty whimsical at the best of times, and to me it seems he's let his power go to his head- he "knows" he's that much more powerful then, well, just about anyone, so he doesn't care about being being challenged all that much... which means someone who does have the sufficient level of skill (and let's not forget that Cologne is probably fairly close behind him, even if she is behind him) and who does take things seriously from the get-go could potentially hurt him really badly by taking advantage of that nonchalance. Happosai does get angry for a time, but he quickly blows it off, and even when there's something he wants on the line, he's perfectly willing to just run off when a pretty girl catches his eye.

That's my reasoning for picking Cologne. She might be weaker, but, essentially, she's smarter. She has the focus and discipline that Hornball Happosai doesn't, she's fully aware of all his personality quirks and many character flaws, and she's devious enough to capitalize on them. Also, we have no idea exactly what tricks she does know, because she's less of an outright antagonist then Happosai. We're shown that she has moves like the Amaguriken, Shark Fist/Fist of the Ice Bear, Hiryu Shoten Ha, Bakusai Tenketsu and ki/aura projectiles, she boasts about the skills of her tribe often enough in her first story, so there's really no way of telling what kind of moves she has up her sleeve.

Besides, though I admit that Ranma did manage to get the "Phoenix Pill" back from Cologne with the Amaguriken, didn't Cologne later swat hir hands aside and point out that she was the one who taught Ranma that trick during their later battle at the beach/snow mountain? And didn't she also say something along the lines of not having expected Ranma to learn the Amaguriken as quickly as s/he did? So is that really a good sign of evidence that she is slower then Happosai?
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Crescent Pulsar » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:14 pm

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:That's my reasoning for picking Cologne. She might be weaker, but, essentially, she's smarter.

I thought this was a good point. Most would probably (though arguably) agree that Ranma is weaker than Happosai in terms of power, but he still defeats him from time to time because he uses his brains. Much like in a game of chess, it doesn't matter what a piece is capable of if you don't know how to use it. And if you know how the other piece moves, you can exploit that, too.

And Cologne is probably much better in that respect than Ranma, since she has the wisdom of age on her side. :lol: (Well, Happosai's old, too, but I think he didn't pick up as much along the way. ;p)
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Dumbledork » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:14 pm

I remember that Happosai managed to put a bra on Cologne, so he's probably faster.
And that's the bottom line 'cause Dumbledork said so.

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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Crescent Pulsar » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:01 pm

In the anime, yeah. Which also gave Cologne a telekinetic ability. What's Happosai to do when she's diverting his movements with her mind? :P
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby three headed dog » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:18 am

I chose don't know. I really don't like versus all that much because there are far to many variables in a fight. As we saw Shampoo was capable of knocking out and tying up Cologne in Volume 37 (capitalized on Cologne not expecting it) and Ranma has displayed the ability to sneak up on both Cologne and Happosai when he wants to (at least in the manga, where Ranma really enjoys doing that to people, particularly Akane). An opponent of lesser skill or power can beat a more skilled/powerful fighter. There have been many situations in real life in which trained soldiers were defeated by untrained civilians or armies that defeated other armies many times their size.

What's the motivation (important in battle), terrain, techniques they are willing to use (killing or submission), offensive or defensive (much harder to fight a defensive battle unless prepared for it ahead of time), what magic do they have access to and are willing to use (both have quite a bit of magic available to them and both are likely to know where to acquire more than what they have on/near them), what lengths will they go to (for example would Happosai use Shampoo to get at Cologne), do they have prep time (very, very useful), are they familiar with the tactics that the other person would employ and have the means to counter it (doubtful since they have not fought each other for a long period of time and likely learned a lot in the intervening years), etc... see lots and lots of variables which can seriously alter the tides of battle. Considering how skilled/powerful these two characters are the minute details can make a large difference.

As for which has the higher stats, Happosai appears to have more raw power than Cologne (at least more willing to use it/show his power) and as for skill it's a toss up (we aren't shown enough for me to make a judgment on how their skills compare).
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby lwf58 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:21 am

...Rats. I vaguely remember Cologne admitting that Happi is better than she is, but I don't recall where. I'm pretty sure it was a canon source, but until and unless I can find it....
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Crescent Pulsar » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:52 am

It may have been in the anime, somewhere. I don't recall her admitting anything like that in the manga.

three headed dog:

You're right about the variables. That's why we can only consider what we can, compare, and guess.
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:47 pm

She commented that Happosai was good after their first encounter in the anime, then warned Ranma against tangling with him, but she never outright claimed that Happosai could beat her. Also, she didn't recognize him until the Nanban Mirror episode, in the next season. I'm pretty sure that they modified the Love Pill Bracelet storyline, but I don't recall if they had the teens mention that they used to be a couple, or simply have it that they didn't recognize each other personally.
Last edited by SpaceKnight of Chaos on Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Neko- » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:24 pm

The Mummy would win. Much more dedicated to the fight overall, and more sneaky then the Freak.
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby Konsaki » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:09 am

It'd be a toss-up to environmentals and luck IMO. The only thing I do know, no matter who wins, the surrounding area loses with the collateral damage from their fight.
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Re: The Old Mummy Vs. The Old Freak

Postby mondu_the_fat » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:15 am

It depends on _why_ they are fighting. If its just for kicks and giggles (anything not really serious to Happosai), or if it is something cologne takes seriously, I'm betting on cologne, simply because Happosai will be distracted or lose interest at one point or another.

If Happosai is serious (see Taro arc when they tried to hypnotize Happosai), I'm betting on Happosai.

Note that the things Happosai take seriously are likely not the same things Cologne takes seriously. If it is something Happosai takes seriously but Cologne doesn't, likely Cologne will find a way out rather than fight it out, so its almost automatically than Cologne "loses" in such a situation. This doesn't take into account skill or power, just motivation -- even if cologne were the better fighter, she'll find an out rather than fight happosai over something happosai takes seriously.
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