I'm not entirely sure where i'm going with this

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I'm not entirely sure where i'm going with this

Postby Chirishman » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:34 am

Ok, this started out as a compairison of Ranma and Naruto that just kind of struck me out of nowhere as i read an xmen fic. Kind of a flash of insight, and as I wrote it down it turned into an over analysis of Harry Potter, specifically of chess in Harry Potter. I just kind of wanted to put this out there. Also please feel free to chime in with additional insight and maybe even refferences to when in the book they play chess. I have a feeling that the times when Harry loosing chess games to Ron is significant but unfortunately do not have access to either of my sets (one for taking everywhere and lending which gets beaten up and one beautiful clean barely touched set which is not allowed to leave my bedroom) of Harry Potter books at the moment.
My ADD wrote:The biggest difference between Naruto and Ranma is the issue of free power. Ranma would never take a free power up like Ryouga and Akane do (symbol of the battling god, battle dogi), he thinks its dishonorable. Naruto and Sasuke both jump on any free power they can grab (Kyuubi, cursed seal). I'm not saying that Naruto isn't admirable or that he isn't cool. I'm just saying that I hate Sasuke for his actions, I respect his conviction and his willingness to make sacrifices in order to accomplish his goals. I disagree with what he decides to sacrifice and what he sacrifices it for as well as his belief that he can just waltz back in and reclaim it, but he, Ranma and Ron Weasly understand a lesson that Naruto has yet to master. In order to gain something you must be willing to make sacrifices. Sasuke simply has trouble judging how much of a sacrifice things are worth. This is also the larger significance to Harry always loosing to Ron at chess. Ron is capable of sacrificing a few pieces to win the game, even himself as is shown in the giant chess game in the first book. Harry however has a 'saving people thing' and his need to come out with all of his pieces keeps him from objectively judging the relative value of his pieces.
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Postby GenocideHeart » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:43 am

This is a Naruto tangent, but... I feel it must be said.
Actually, Naruto is severely HOSED by the Kyuubi. It gives him a lot of chakra, but at the price of terrible chakra control. The manga bashes you over the head with this.
Furthermore, the only times when he accessed Kyuubi's power is when he had no other choice. Against Neji and Gaara he could have quite possibly been killed if he didn't, and against Sasuke, he had to use it to counter the SSj6 Super Sharinganjin powerup, as I call it.
If anything, Kishimoto keeps undermining Naruto (who in the latest chapters has even flat out refused to use Kyuubi again when Sasuke showed up, and the Kyuubi even called him stupid for that) and giving powerup upon powerup to Sasuke (what next, he blinks and you die of heart attack? After seeing the Sharingan create black holes, I'm not discounting that).
Bottom line, Naruto won't jump on any powerup like your quote implies. In fact, he despises shortcuts, and prefers to work for his power...
"When the Planessss burnnnn and all life is torchesss, then Ignusss ssshall at lassst... be at peace..."
--Ignus, Planescape: Torment
"Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe."
--Vhailor, Planescape: Torment
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Postby Chirishman » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:59 am

I didn't say that the Kyuubi power was free, I said that he didn't earn it. Naruto paid for the Kyuubi power, he instead of earning it. There was no qualification to get that power, he didn't train for it. He did pay for it many times over though through suffering, hardship and poor chakra control. Also, relying on the Kyuubi's power is just as dangerous for his development as the curse seal. Naruto's decision not to rely on the extra power and Sasuke's decision to rely on it are completely seperate from where the power comes from. Naruto has more raw power than anyone else, the Kyuubi ensures that, but Sasuke's precision and use of what he has surpasses Naruto's. It's the difference between a mallet and a scalpel. I can't speak to your statements a about the latter part of the manga series as I have only read right up to the time skip. Blinking and dying of a heart attack is the mangeyo sharingan or did you forget. I'm not saying that Naruto will jump on any power up but the fact that he uses the Kyuubi's power at all seperates him from Ranma who works like Lee for every iota of power.
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Postby GenocideHeart » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:09 am

Chirishman wrote:I didn't say that the Kyuubi power was free, I said that he didn't earn it. Naruto paid for the Kyuubi power, he instead of earning it. There was no qualification to get that power, he didn't train for it. He did pay for it many times over though through suffering, hardship and poor chakra control. Also, relying on the Kyuubi's power is just as dangerous for his development as the curse seal. Naruto's decision not to rely on the extra power and Sasuke's decision to rely on it are completely seperate from where the power comes from. Naruto has more raw power than anyone else, the Kyuubi ensures that, but Sasuke's precision and use of what he has surpasses Naruto's. It's the difference between a mallet and a scalpel. I can't speak to your statements a about the latter part of the manga series as I have only read right up to the time skip. Blinking and dying of a heart attack is the mangeyo sharingan or did you forget. I'm not saying that Naruto will jump on any power up but the fact that he uses the Kyuubi's power at all seperates him from Ranma who works like Lee for every iota of power.

I should point out that he never had a CHOICE about whether to have that power or not. It is as much part of him as your blood is of you - considering them apart is meaningless.
Furthermore, there's strong hints in the manga that even if naruto did NOT have the Kyuubi, he'd still have a massive reserve of personal chakra - Jiraiya does mention how long it took to wear his natural reserves out in order for him to start using Kyuubi's.
For an example of thatm, look at the Forest of Death. When Orochimaru put the 5 part seal on him, he was cut off from Kyuubi's chakra (and in fact, he still had scratches and wounds, something that the fox would've healed by that point).
Despite that, he went on to sustain at least 50 Kage Bunshin with Henge's on them to make them look like Sakura, Sasuke and Kabuto - for an ENTIRE NIGHT's worth of nonstop fighting. And he still had enough strength to KO the Rain nin after they showed themselves.
Naruto's chakra is massive to begin with - the Kyuubi merely makes him hard to kill and gives him something extra to fall back on if everything else fails, much like what Ranma did with the Kinjakan and Gekkaja against Saffron. I'm willing to bet that most of what he did in the manga is his own stuff, not Kyuubi's - he hates the fox, and unless there's a damn good reason, he won't use its power.
I'd also like to think that Naruto's Kyuubi could be considered his own personal Nekoken. It's power, but at the price of continued suffering. And you can't exactly say Ranma 'trained' for the Nekoken, since it's more of a state of mind induced by extreme fear than a technique, hence it's not something you can 'train for' - it's a phobia, something you have no control over. And much like Ranma with it, Naruto also hates the power. The only difference is, he's willing to use it if the cause is good enough - usually to save someone.
"When the Planessss burnnnn and all life is torchesss, then Ignusss ssshall at lassst... be at peace..."
--Ignus, Planescape: Torment
"Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe."
--Vhailor, Planescape: Torment
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