FOG3 wrote:Even in their world, huh? Interesting sentiment to bother to tack on. Okay, what makes the losers in Volume 1&2 better then in a series of similar nature?
When I said "Even in their world", the point was that even if it
was a world where stuff "weighs less", it's still the case that Ranma & co. can lift enough "less-weighing" stuff to awe normal onlookers. (In retrospect, I grant that that could have been phrased clearer.)
FOG3 wrote:The difference between it's early rendition and later is very simple. Starting out Takahashi was at least nominally serious. Later she made it into what is in the most literal by definition sense, a farce. A play that is a series of improbable and outright ridiculous events optimized for comedic effect.
Sure, it's heavily farcical in parts. And yes, a lot of people don't allow for this. But the thing is, it's possible to swing too far to the
other side as well, and ignore the fact that in other parts, Takahashi plays it noticeably straighter. I didn't laugh much during the Nerima trio's big fights with Herb & co.--sure, there were a few humorous spots, but the usual balance between laughs and drama is pretty clearly inverted there.
The key to interpreting what you read is to distinguish the degree of seriousness involved. I lose absolutely
zero sleep over the fact that anybody can punch anybody into the stratosphere out of annoyance, because I know that its all in good fun. But that still doesn't mean I can't also enjoy the parts where Takahashi plays the battles for excitement as opposed to laughs.
Heck, a lot of anime/manga have this balancing act--in one proportion or another. Trigun, for example, has a lot of oddball, nonsensical elements woven into its action scenes, but few would question that it has a very serious side to it as well.
<physics stuff>
Oh, I'm certainly not committed to following RL physics lockstep. I fully recognize that Ranma's in a funky kind of world, one that takes the often-ridiculous physics of a wuxia film and amplifies its conciets a hundred-fold. I'm not trying to explain how a human being can throw massive boulders as though they were massless--any more than I can explain how a human being can push themselves up off the surface of a lake using the tip of their sword (as they do in "Hero"). In both cases, I'm just enjoying the fact that they can, objectively ridiculous though it might be.
(Although, when possible, I do try to find explanations that dovetail as close as possible with RL physics. No sense in distorting things beyond necessity.)
But
whichever way you want to look at it--whether it's the physics or the rocks that are funky--it's still clear that Ranma & co. are head and shoulders above the "normal" denizens of their world simply by direct comparison. Whatever the gravity is, Hiroshi can't even
budge the umbrella that Ryouga uses like a frickin'
rapier. Ranma can move too fast for Nabiki to even
see. (Durability is, granted, a bit trickier to lock down precisely, since
all characters have some level of slapstick-based durability, inasmuch as they ever get hurt.)
But as for intelligence... when did I ever state that I was "exceeding sure that he is in fact some sort of genius in his universe"?
If it seems appropriate something like "power levels" is utterly ignored. Genma can be matching Happosai in a flat out battle of aura projection and ki power in one scene before in the next turning around and doing the 'we're not worthy' routine because it is in fact a farce and that kind of material works quite well with a farce.
Hm? Out of curiousity, what instance are you thinking of? The only time I can think of where they were both battle auras was in vol. 6, but all Genma managed to do there was duplicate Happousai's technique for a fraction of the time that Happi sustains it for--and never actually did anything to Happi with it.
If you go with manga then it is as Ranma himself put it simply speed training and the feat itself is rubbish.
Actually, both he and Cologne refer to the KTA as an actual
technique in the manga, one that can be "mastered".
Would this work in a serious setting? Probably not, but this is a farce and if he could do a Romulan style cloak it seems very odd for him to have not taken advantage of that capability.
Eh? What more would you expect him to do with it than what he did? The effective result of the technique was invisiblility, whatever the means to accomplish it--when in full swing, he was attacking Ryu with impunity, and Ryu had no idea where he was or where the attacks were coming from.
In any case, I do agree that there's no definitive proof that he's invisible. I'm not even sure which side I lean on myself--there's evidence that makes me think both ways. *shrugs*
EDIT: I've since checked the fan translation against the Viz translation, and having seen the later, it seems much more explicit that Ranma is
not becoming invisible. So mark my opinions as shifting decidedly to that angle.
Incindentally there's no gurantee that aura suppression trick would be sufficient to drop off the Z-fighters much more refined ITITQ.
Debatable. They don't seem to be able to sense ki at all unless someone's actually
doing something with it--e.g. when Gohan was searching for Videl--or for Goku during the first Android wave--he had to wait for them to actually start fighting before he could trace them. And if someone was actively
cloaking their aura...
Ranma's been doing aura control to some degree throughout his entire career, and the whole business with the special metal suit was to make him suppress it in the HSH arc. Of course, if you insist that little stub incident was the entirety of it ignoring all the work with HSH between I can by the same standards say Magic girls develop new attacks in under a minute and thus Ranma will be swamped in a slew of new techniques that if not initiately will eventually pound him into submission as she keeps turning out a new one every shot.
I must admit to finding the image rather amusing.
...huh? How does the conclusion about the magical girls follow from the question of how much the HSH helped with the Umisenken? You've completely lost me with this one.
As for the HSH/Umi question itself, it's relatively reasonable to assume the HSH training helped, but whether the HSH training gave Ranma 95% of what he needed to know for the Umi, or whether it was just the first 5% baby step we have no way of knowing.
I lean more toward the latter myself--considering how much more shocking to its watchers the Umi's effect was relative to the Soul of Ice, it feels like there
should have been a good deal more to it than what he already had. But that's pure speculation--ultimately, only Takahashi can say.