Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:41 am

I just thought that I'd point out how animals in Ranma 1/2 have a tendency to not live up to acting like real animals. So, arguably, there's a chance of finding an animal that behaves with a higher level of sophistication, that could wind up in a spring. There was that monk (that was a monkey) that had originally sealed the oni, for example. And relevant to being cursed itself, there were those foxes that became men and continued with the same human-like behavior. Akari's sumo pig, Katsunishiki, is also rather intelligent. Ryoga's dog, Checkers, also shows more intelligence than what is considered normal.

Beyond that... *Shrugs* Who knows what such information accomplishes.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Wyrd » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:26 am

When have we seen a spring alter a person's personality, and or skill set?


Spring of drowned virtuous man. At least, if that had been the water he actually had. The fact that there is a spring labeled that instead of just spring of drowned man suggests that some of the springs alter the mind even if all don't.

The springs could just give you the natural instincts of the new form. Humans have plenty of instincts, we just tend not to listen to them. However, those instincts alone would not be enough to adjust for martial arts, because those are trained abilities outside of instinct, and the cursed individual has to learn to adjust the way they are thinking about their moves. The fact that Ranma beat Shampoo so soon after being cursed suggests that he had instinctively adjusted to the form and was sufficiently more skilled than Shampoo that the differences in reach and strength weren't enough to throw him off enough for her to win.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Zwzn » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:28 pm

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:I just thought that I'd point out how animals in Ranma 1/2 have a tendency to not live up to acting like real animals. So, arguably, there's a chance of finding an animal that behaves with a higher level of sophistication, that could wind up in a spring. There was that monk (that was a monkey) that had originally sealed the oni, for example. And relevant to being cursed itself, there were those foxes that became men and continued with the same human-like behavior. Akari's sumo pig, Katsunishiki, is also rather intelligent. Ryoga's dog, Checkers, also shows more intelligence than what is considered normal.

Beyond that... *Shrugs* Who knows what such information accomplishes.

I was always under the impression Checkers wasn't really a dog, but something that looked similar, and that many of the animals were not actually animals, but spirits/kami.

I find it hard to believe Ryoga, Shampoo, and Genma just happened to fall into spring of hyper-intelligent(insert animal)
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 pm

Obvious spirit/kami would be something like that horse at the temple, Shussemaru. I mentioned how a lot of animals have shown to be smarter than normal animals to possibly explain why it might be possible for some animals that become human to be easier to adjust to having such a life, not explain why a person who becomes an animal maintains their human intelligence. Although, if animals really had that innate potential (at least in the Ranma 1/2 universe), that would explain everything.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Zwzn » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:38 pm

When have we seen a spring alter a person's personality, and or skill set?

Wyrd wrote:Spring of drowned virtuous man. At least, if that had been the water he actually had. The fact that there is a spring labeled that instead of just spring of drowned man suggests that some of the springs alter the mind even if all don't.

Do we know were Taro got his information? It's not like he got the correct water.

Wyrd wrote:The springs could just give you the natural instincts of the new form. Humans have plenty of instincts, we just tend not to listen to them. However, those instincts alone would not be enough to adjust for martial arts, because those are trained abilities outside of instinct, and the cursed individual has to learn to adjust the way they are thinking about their moves. The fact that Ranma beat Shampoo so soon after being cursed suggests that he had instinctively adjusted to the form and was sufficiently more skilled than Shampoo that the differences in reach and strength weren't enough to throw him off enough for her to win.
The problem is Ranma is just so much more skilled and powerful that he doesn't even have to try to win in a fight with Shampoo. Shampoo is simply pathetic in every way when compared to Ranma, and that makes it impossible to tell how much turning into a girl messes up Ranma.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Zwzn » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:47 pm

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:Obvious spirit/kami would be something like that horse at the temple, Shussemaru. I mentioned how a lot of animals have shown to be smarter than normal animals to possibly explain why it might be possible for some animals that become human to be easier to adjust to having such a life, not explain why a person who becomes an animal maintains their human intelligence. Although, if animals really had that innate potential (at least in the Ranma 1/2 universe), that would explain everything.

If the animals had that level of intelligence many species would be living like humans in the series. It's clearly something rare, and very likely many are not as smart as they appear.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:32 pm

Not necessarily. For one, most animals can't manipulate their environment as much as humans can, because they don't have hands (opposable thumbs, anyway). So it'd depend on the condition of their environment, because intelligence will only pervade so far as it's inspired to develop. Seeing as most of the examples that I gave either had them being raised by humans, or living among humans, they would have the examples and inspiration to develop human-like intelligence and behavior.

To give a real-life example of what I'm talking about, some birds have the ability to say human words. Normally they don't say them, because they're in the wild and thus it doesn't occur to them. However, expose them to humans, and they have examples by which to be inspired by, because what use would they have for human words out in the wild? (Actually, that makes me wonder why the birds that can say human words decide to do so when they're exposed to it.)
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Wyrd » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:17 pm

More importantly, quite a few animals show an ability to learn and adapt on par with a human child, they just don't have instincts that are geared towards tool usage and modifying your environment to suit you, or the manipulative appendages to do so(opposable thumbs). Horses in particular have the intelligence of about an 8 year old(if I'm remembering correctly. It has been a long time since I read this.) Pigs are also quite intelligent. Apes will not only learn and use sign language, albeit a fairly uncomplicated form, they will go on to teach that language to their children. Monkeys can also learn sign language, but they usually don't teach it to their children. Just one of the idiosyncracies between monkeys and apes.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Zwzn » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:08 am

Crescent Pulsar R wrote: Not necessarily. For one, most animals can't manipulate their environment as much as humans can, because they don't have hands (opposable thumbs, anyway). So it'd depend on the condition of their environment, because intelligence will only pervade so far as it's inspired to develop. Seeing as most of the examples that I gave either had them being raised by humans, or living among humans, they would have the examples and inspiration to develop human-like intelligence and behavior.

To give a real-life example of what I'm talking about, some birds have the ability to say human words. Normally they don't say them, because they're in the wild and thus it doesn't occur to them. However, expose them to humans, and they have examples by which to be inspired by, because what use would they have for human words out in the wild? (Actually, that makes me wonder why the birds that can say human words decide to do so when they're exposed to it.)
Wyrd wrote: More importantly, quite a few animals show an ability to learn and adapt on par with a human child, they just don't have instincts that are geared towards tool usage and modifying your environment to suit you, or the manipulative appendages to do so(opposable thumbs). Horses in particular have the intelligence of about an 8 year old(if I'm remembering correctly. It has been a long time since I read this.) Pigs are also quite intelligent. Apes will not only learn and use sign language, albeit a fairly uncomplicated form, they will go on to teach that language to their children. Monkeys can also learn sign language, but they usually don't teach it to their children. Just one of the idiosyncracies between monkeys and apes.

I was thinking more along the lines of Ryoga's dog who as I recall got on TV, and had written on a sign that she had puppies. I seem to recall her also holding the sign as if she had fingers and thumbs. You have to admit that Chechers is odd.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:10 pm

That's Ranma 1/2 for you. :P

And it's not all that surprising that a dog did that, since all it really is is an exaggeration of what dogs are capable of in reality. Ongoing studies, breeding and teaching continue to show that dogs have yet-explored limits of intelligence, and what they can do with it.
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Re: Reasons for the ladle and kettle?

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Zwzn wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of Ryoga's dog who as I recall got on TV, and had written on a sign that she had puppies. I seem to recall her also holding the sign as if she had fingers and thumbs. You have to admit that Chechers is odd.

Sometimes I wonder if Ryoga is a magical girl in disguise. Magical girls almost always have talking pets as advisors -- writing is close enough to talking to count?
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