What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

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What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:05 pm

Was just confronted by a Ranma 1/2 peggy sue idea involving each of Ranma's three other fiancees receiving the memories of their original future selves while only at the age when Ranma was still playing around with chibi-Ukyo, and as I stored it away, a new thought slunk it's way into my head...

If Genma Saotome, shortly after the training trip began, suddenly had all of the memories of his canonical self forced into his thick head, what would happen?

Would Genma simply write them off as fantasies - if only until the first time he experiences something that matches his "fake" memories (for example, perhaps being tempted to look at the next page in the Nekoken booklet)?

Would he accept them, but keep to the canonical path anyway, simply because he sees that the benefits of doing so (Jusenkyo brought Cologne to Nerima to provide Ranma with some of his better techniques, while also ensuring Shampoo would never be able to truly tempt Ranma away from his "rightful wife" Akane, for example) to outweigh the costs (Ranma being cursed to assume female form means he cannot dare to risk being seen by Nodoka)?

Or would he try and take advantage of them somehow, to try and manipulate the future into something he desires... only to have things go just as wrong, but in different ways? For example; he avoids giving Ranma the Nekoken, only to earn him some other disability - perhaps a curse from a priest or mystic he robs, perhaps forcing him into an equally debilitating martial arts training. He avoids engaging Ranma to Ukyo, only to end up rescuing a somewhat bumbling practitioner of Martial Arts Thievery while burglaring the same place, with the man promptly vowing that he shall wed his daughter to Genma's son in honor of Genma's compassion - Genma thinks nothing of it, until the Princess of Thieves comes a'courting his baby boy. He avoids Jusenkyo, desperate to not force himself to evade his beloved wife, only to end up getting Ranma some other sort of magical affliction - maybe he pisses off a demon of some kind that dedicates its life to screwing with Ranma, or he gets Ranma possessed or something. No interaction with the Joketsuzoku? He just ends up getting Ranma the romantic interest (or outright engaged to) some other weird martial artist/magical girl.

What do you all think?
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby frice2000 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:57 pm

Interesting idea think it could be phrased a little different though. Like Genma finds an item to grant him a wish and he wishes to know how to make Ranma the best fighter of all time when the child is a mere infant and the wish just gives him the memories of what he would've done anyway. That feels a bit more realistic to me as the wish wouldn't have to even be that high powered in that case.

The more interesting question you of course bring up is what would Genma do with this foreknowledge. Me I'm of the school of thought that Genma isn't the ass so much fannon and parts of cannon shows. You never really get all of his perpsective. Yes he isn't the most honorable or well thought out guy in the world but he raised a fighter that's capable of tangoing with people who supposedly still at or near their peak and have 280+ years of experience on him. That's some pretty impressive references to give to the man regardless of how you feel about him otherwise. That said this knowledge is going to tempt him a lot. I don't think he'd be so cruel as to attempt or reattempt some of the worse ideas like the Cat Fist but this arguably makes Ranma a worse fighter. The interplay between his desires at not royally screwing over his son and the memories he has about how good a fighter that made him into would be a constant struggle.

That said I don't think he teaches him the Cat Fist or engages him to Ukyou. Some of the other engagements may of course come about because some of them were possibly because of near starvation and/or desperation. You're right without the Yattai it's quite conceivable that they get quite hungry later and Ranma picks up a alternative fiancée.

He's probably also careful to make sure his son still runs into Ryouga just so that Ranma has a built in rival which pushes him to be better. I also still think he takes him to China. So many of Ranma's techniques and development as a martial artist comes from the Amazons. It's why when they are not used in a story something so often feels like it's missing from the story. I don't think he'd take him to Jusenkyou of course just to the Amazon village with strident instructions NOT to fight and defeat any women. Genma would go before Cologne to ask her to possibly train his son and I think it's likely with both Shampoo and Ranma's built in ego that they fight and Ranma gets Shampoo anyway even though Genma was trying to avoid that outcome. Due to Cologne now agreeing to train her son in law they stay at the village longer then the cannon tournament and Mousse challenges Ranma because he's stolen his Shampoo. Queue fighting at Jusenkyou and cannon curses, simply because I don't think the series is the same without them and it is readily beleiveable for them to occur in that context, with Genma cursing himself for not further stopping complications.

Jusenkyou and its affects and memories regarding the Seppuku contract would be the first element after the wish or other medium you go about introducing the memories. Have him remember the manliness part of the memories causing issues and reframe it so something more lenient takes it's place like Ranma being the best Martial Artist. This is on it's surface easier to fulfill but think about all the times in cannon Ranma was temporarily defeated and well it's worse.

Genma is a bumbler by nature. I do think he'd try to eliminate some of the harsher aspects of Ranma's training but inevitably he should create more problems. Neat story idea.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:22 pm

Just to be clear, this isn't a story idea so much as asking: "which do you think is most likely to be Genma's reaction, given your interpretation of him?" With maybe a dash of "which would be the more interesting turnout?"

That said, while I can easily see Ranma getting cursed at Jusenkyo in the turnout you come up with, the canon curses... eh, that pushes disbelief a bit too far. That Ranma would piss off Mousse is a given, that Mousse would challenge Ranma to fight at the "forbidden zone" of Jusenkyo makes sense... but that they would somehow end up in the very same springs they did in canon? These two are going to be leaping around a lot more; it's far more likely they'd end up in very different springs, given that they are going to be much more mobile than Ranma and Genma (jump up onto closest poles and just trade places back and forth) were, and Mousse isn't going to just walk into the spring.

Though I have to admit, Ranma end up falling towards the Nyanniichuan, only for Genma to pull off a heroic feat and knock him flying into a different spring altogether, while Genma ends up turning into a young girl because he used up all his momentum and so had to fall into the Nyanniichuan himself, could be a very interesting development.

Also, to point out, by the time Genma gets these memories, he's already on the road after having made the initial contract. That said, that revised contract you suggested could be just as damning to Ranma, if not more so. And it makes Nodoka a little less psychotic seeming; after all, as she would be quick to point out, being the best doesn't mean never losing, everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby AdmiralTigerclaw » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:47 pm

Genma falls into Nyannichuan?!

That would make Genma turn into a girl...

That fat, slovenly old man made a perfect panda... but turning into a girl?

*Mental imag-*

AUGH!!! IT BURNS!!!!

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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:08 pm

A common theory is that the Nyanniichuan actually means "Young Girl", and just as common (if not neccessarily crossing over) is the theory that a Nyanniichuan's victim actually becomes especially attractive in their cursed form. So, "Genma-chan" might actually be a hot teenage girl... with Genma Saotome's mind and personality.

...

Okay, I admit, that's a whole new level of sick.

But, seriously, I'd actually think Mousse is more likely to fall into the Nyanniichuan. Either by walking into it (that spring is real close to where the main "entrance" to Jusenkyo is, after all), or by missing a jump thanks to his lousy vision while first starting off. When "she" promptly goes berserk, Ranma has to go running for his life deeper into the valley, because Mousse is at the entrance and that's a whole lot of sharp objects coming his way. Of course, inevitably, Ranma either misses a jump in his panic, or Mousse cuts a bamboo stalk out from under him, and down he goes into one of the interior springs.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby frice2000 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:19 pm

Not to get too off topic but I'm a believer that the victim of the Springs usually is a reflection on the person's nature or a punishment. Thus when Ryouga fell into a Spring he became something helpless, annoying, and headstrong which he is. The helpless portion is to help him to learn to be more reliant on others which he refuses to do usually except in the case of cute girls. Even then he thinks something is up with them more often then not. Genma's was to reflect on his laziness and overall lack of forethought. He thinks of himself as a dashing and strong figure now he has to waddle along with an awkward gait. Shampoo is a prideful, spiteful person. The stereotype of a cat reflects this. Ranma is an extremely prideful masculine sexist/egoist. He fell in exactly the spring that would be most harmful to his self image and ego more-so then most any animal curse held therein. One can even argue Tarou's curse was the form meant for Happosai as he was the one walking to the Springs. That form would have well represented the monster hidden inside of him. That's just a theory but it seems to be slightly supportable and is why I have no problem with cannon curses still being handed out even with varying circumstances.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:40 pm

You trip yourself up with the Taro one; if it was intended for Happosai, then why did nothing happen to knock Happosai in? It might have been the first spring he was drawn towards, but still nothing caused him to get cursed. There might be an "attraction" towards the Nyanniichuan for Ranma*, but it is still up to Mousse to actually push him into it - and as Mousse's fighting style primarily consists of throwing daggers and swords and axes and things, that's going to send Ranma deeper into the valley. He may end up with a female spring, but it wouldn't be the actual Nyanniichuan.

*Honestly, Ranma isn't as sexist as many people think - there's no evidence that he needed Nyanniichuan to teach him it's not right to grope women or peep on them while they're undressed or take their underwear. And if it's supposed to teach him that girls aren't weak, it'd do a lot better job of doing so if it wasn't, y'know, weaker than his true form. Manga and anime canon is that girl-Ranma has less strength, feels more pain, has lower reach... it's inferior in just about every way. When Ranma wins a victory in that form, his natural assumption isn't "girls are really strong", it's "I'm so awesome that even being a girl doesn't make me any less awesome"! Something like the Ashuraniichuan, which would genuinely be stronger than his male form, would be better for teaching him that "girls aren't weak", an attitude, I may add, which Ranma has never shown any real signs of having in canon. The only times Ranma has spoken in an implied negative towards girls fighting is when he tells Akane that "when a guy is fighting a girl he likes, sometimes he lets her win". The only times Genma has said something like "girls are weak" is when he angrily proclaims Ranma "sounds like a girl" for complaining, which is a cultural stereotype in more "machismo" orientated cultures - Japanese men are supposed to be stoic and controlled and never admit to any weakness.

**Hell, I actually think Mousse fits the criteria for Nyanniichuan as "punishment" better. Look at how he was stupid enough to take her to a "zombie demon show" after he finally scores a date with her; the implication that she will want to cling to his arm for protection is so obvious, and offensive to her, that she beats the snot out of him and leaves him in a huff.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby Wyrd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:55 pm

I'm also a fan of the idea that Jusenkyo has some sort of deeper awareness behind it, that it picks the curses it inflicts on people. If you go with the probability shifting that seems to follow all of the cursed cast members whenever they try to go for a cure, it could even be interpreted that Jusenkyo won't let you be cured until you learn the lesson that it was trying to teach. The massive coincidences that show up whenever there is a cure and the fact that the IQ's of everyone involved seem to drop in half when there might be a cure available-even if it could have cured all of them if they had been patient-combine with the few times Ranma had a cure available and gave it up in a test of character, such as by saving Akane from the man water. If it weren't for the others getting in the way, I suspect Ranma could have been cured after Jusendo, because of what he says about accepting it as part of him and no longer seeing it as a curse. Jusenkyo just wasn't going to let Genma or Mousse get cured, as they appear to have learned next to nothing in the entire course of the series.


How would Genma respond to such knowledge? I expect he would avoid those techniques which didn't work at all. With the number of times the neko-ken has saved the day, he might still put Ranma through it, but there are bound to have been training ideas that didn't work out at all over the years. He would also know which dojos and temples he visited were a bust and instead go to some that he didn't have time to try before, giving Ranma some access to different schools and techniques. If this Genma is bright enough to see the harm his teachings do to his child's ability to interact with others, especially his fiancee(s), he might make an effort to socialize him more and not harp on quite as much about how weak girls are. The source of information could reveal to Genma that Ranma was going to get cursed no matter what, leading to him intentionally going to Jusenkyo while Ranma is young so he can cope with it better. If not, then Genma would likely try to avoid the place like the plague, though I could see him still going to the Joketsuzoku to try to get Ranma some of their training.

How much does Genma remember? From what point in the timeline do his memories come? If they come from after the end of the manga, then he knows that all he has to do to show Nodoka that Ranma is manly enough is to have her see how honorable and good Ranko is before revealing the nature of the curse, or he could 'be a man' and just tell her about it while insisting that Ranma is no less a man among men just because he spends some time as a woman.

edit: cleared up some pronoun confusion.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby frice2000 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:59 pm

if it was intended for Happosai, then why did nothing happen to knock Happosai in?

I'm not saying the springs are sentient or overly aware of their surroundings just that they are keyed for certain outcomes and lessons and draw the individual to a spring that reflects this. Whatever does drive the springs simply assumed that situation that Happosai was going to be taking the dip since Taro as a baby was a blank slate and thus he was drawn to that spring. Just because he wasn't the one that ended up in it doesn't mean he didn't find the spring that would've represented his inner self and broadcast it to the world which is quite shocking considering the exoticness of that curse versus all but one other we see in cannon and the many many springs located in the valley. In fact I see that curse more then any other being evidenced of some sort of deeper meaning.

With that I think regardless of the curse Ranma gets in the scenario you had outlined it has to be female in nature in some respect or something that will be equally scarring to his psyche and personality.

there's no evidence that he needed Nyanniichuan to teach him it's not right to grope women or peep on them while they're undressed or take their underwear

You can argue how sexist or how much of an egoist he really is. Even if I totally give you a total pass on the sexist angle he still has a huge ego which tossing him into that form which he himself reiterates again and again how much he detests it until I'd argue halfway into the story and even then the curse continues to be a mark against his pride.

I said "Ranma is an extremely prideful masculine sexist/egoist." That doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks all woman are weak fighters nor did I intend it to indicate that. He does think of women in general in very traditionalist terms however and he DOES NOT want to have any feminine characteristics attributed to him unless such characteristics are directly advantageous to him for a short period. Thus I could even spin it that the curse didn't need to convince him of that strength. Hell the only times that he as a fighter is extremely disadvantaged in his female form is his initial fight with Mousse not too long after his gaining the curse. He defeated Shampoo extremely easily mere days or hours after being cursed that doesn't really fit into what you're asserting here.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:20 pm

The reality behind why nobody ever gets cured is because, frankly, Ranma 1/2 is supposed to be a comedy and status quo is god; no real changes are ever made in the series. I have to conceed a theory about Jusenkyo actually thinking and planning is easier to swallow than "Rumiko Takahashi just didn't want to make that big of a change to the series, no matter how hamfisted it required her to be to make the cure go bust", though. It's understandable to try and associate a deeper in-universe reason, but even there I find... what's it called? Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to selfishness and stupidity? Makes more sense.

Nekoken, useful? When? The only time the Nekoken was at all helpful was as a surprise attack against Cologne - if Ranma had never pissed her off in the first place, he would never have needed it. It's honestly one of his bigger weaknesses, and Genma himself basically describes it as such after introducing it.

I wondered when somebody would suggest that Genma might actually try and introduce Ranma to Akane and maybe her sisters at a younger age, perhaps dropping by every couple of years or so. After all, while he would be convinced that Ranma and Akane "belong together" from those memories, he's still cunning enough to try and tone down the arguments and bickering; the sooner they lose that stubborn refusal to accept their true feelings, the better.

From the "inherited" memories, Genma would probably only risk going to the Byankalas in the first place if he decided that the risk of Shampoo trying to woo Ranma was worth the secret technques of Cologne.

My own default for when Genma's future memories come from is after the anime ending, but that's one of the questions that any poster here needs to decide for themselves.

It's stated/shown a number of times in canon that Ranma's female form is the inferior fighter, most notably in the first Taro match (where Taro deliberately turns Ranma into a girl to have the upper hand), and in how Ranma is constantly trying to break away from fights to retrieve hot water in at least the first half of the series - when he fought that duel with Ryoga and his curse was exposed, Akane went running off for hot water, insisting that Ranma couldn't be him in her girl form, for example.

So, really, you're saying that any curse could work, so long as it insults Ranma's pride or marks him as "defective" as some way.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby Wyrd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:55 pm

While weaker, Ranma's cursed form is also described as faster, it is just that in a fight against Taro or Ryouga what he needs the most is strength, not speed, and reach is rather needed as well against Taro's larger form. He is already faster and weaker than both of them in his male form, so enhancing his speed at the cost of even more strength is not a good idea.

I wouldn't say that Ranma had particularly angered Cologne when he used the neko-ken against her, except by not accepting that he was married to Shampoo, though if Genma could get him to avoid Shampoo entirely then that particular use would not have been needed. Still, it is a powerful technique. I agree that the downsides outweigh the upsides unless Genma could locate a manual that gave a better version of the training. Genma might try it again with the conviction that this time he was going to get it right, if you go with the never learning from his mistakes version of Genma.

Hmm. Genma would know that Happosai survived. How would he act on that knowledge? What arrangements would he and Soun make regarding him to try to keep him from ever reentering their lives?

I can see Genma bringing Ranma by the Tendos sooner to introduce him to them. If whatever killed Soun's wife is preventable, and Genma gets the knowledge early enough, there could be some rather major changes to the characters of all of the Tendos.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:18 pm

I'm pretty sure that Ranma being faster in female form is actually considered by most to be "non-canon". It only occurs in two anime-only filler stories (The Ryoga/Mousse Alliance, and Akane & Her Sisters Part 2), and the first time could be considered bluffing on Ranma's part.

But, really, I don't care. Ranma getting cursed even if Genma only takes Ranma to Nyuchiehzu is quite believable; Mousse challenging him to a fight, and picking Jusenkyo as the grounds, is perfectly in character. It's just the two of them ending up with the exact same curses they did in canon that I find hard to swallow; about the only way it works without seeming too contrived is if the Springs can somehow move, so it doesn't matter where it is that Ranma manages to go before Mousse knocks him down; the Spring he falls in will always be Nyanniichuan.

I'm sorry, I meant that Ranma wouldn't have needed to use the Nekoken against Cologne in the first place if he hadn't already made her mad by "getting engaged" to Shampoo and then trying to back out of it. If Ranma is on better terms with Cologne (or they never meet), then he's got no reason to use it against her, and that's the only fight in which he seriously needed it - the only other fight where it's come out, versus Maomolin and the tiger, he could handled things just fine on his own if he wasn't scared out of his wits by his opponent being a cat.

As for powerful technique... about the only thing it seems to give Ranma is "claws", and that could be based off of air pressure slashes or application of Iron Cloth style to his fingernails. Even if it is a power boost, that doesn't make up for its three major weaknesses:
1 - it can't be turned on at will. If Ranma wants to enter it, he needs to have a cat on hand and some way to trap himself in close proximity to it.
2 - it's risky to activate. It takes several minutes of blind panic before Ranma will go into Nekomode, and he's totally defenseless until then.
3 - it's stupid. Seriously, Tatewaki Kuno managed to outhink Ranma while he was in Nekomode! If Cologne hadn't decided to just continue laying into Ranma, thusly drawing his wrath to her... well, that would have been a win for her, and Ranma would have been Shampoo's husband for real.

I personally don't think Genma would try and teach it "again"; Genma might be slow to learn from his mistakes, but he's got memories telling him that just throwing Ranma in with different fish products over and over again does zip. He'd chalk that up as "move on" and do so.

How could Genma act on his knowledge that Happosai is alive and can escape in the future? Head up to the cave and do a little landscaping to make it harder still for Happosai to escape?

Could Genma stop Mrs. Tendo's death...? I don't know if that's possible, but it's intriguing all the same.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-boys-names.shtml
http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby Wyrd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:30 pm

But, really, I don't care. Ranma getting cursed even if Genma only takes Ranma to Nyuchiehzu is quite believable; Mousse challenging him to a fight, and picking Jusenkyo as the grounds, is perfectly in character. It's just the two of them ending up with the exact same curses they did in canon that I find hard to swallow; about the only way it works without seeming too contrived is if the Springs can somehow move, so it doesn't matter where it is that Ranma manages to go before Mousse knocks him down; the Spring he falls in will always be Nyanniichuan.


We also don't know how many 'spring of drowned girl's there are. After Jusendo, there are at least two, with one being specifically the spring of Akane. Now, how that would affect his cursed form is more in question. It could be that the first dip in one of the springs makes you look like you would if you had been born that species/gender, and a subsequent dip makes you look like that particular person who drowned there. Ranma looks too much like his mother in cursed form for me to buy it as being completely coincidence, so it is possible that if he had jumped back into the same spring he would have ended up looking like a different girl. This also means that there is a chance that if he jumped in the nannichuan he would alternate between two different male forms with hot and cold water. If he found out that the other male form was some weakling, he would suddenly be a lot less interested in it as a cure, since at least his girl side is pretty strong, if not as strong as his guy side.
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby SpaceKnight of Chaos » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:27 pm

Alright, this topic got off to a promising start... why do these frigging curse arguments always come up whenever Jusenkyo gets mentioned? ...Anyway, can we get back on topic now?

The question is: if Genma just starting out on his quest to make Ranma the world's greatest martial artist, and then receives all of the memories from his counterpart at the end of the series (anime or manga, you're choice), what do you think he is likely to do?

As I may have made clear, I think Genma would try and take advantage of these memories. He isn't particularly wise, but he's not actually stupid - if he knows ahead of time that, say, the Nekoken is really a joke of a move that only an utter idiot would teach, or that Jusenkyo is just asking for trouble in both Ranma's romantic life (I'm pretty sure Akane's made it clear she thinks Ranma is a freak for bending genders in front of Genma more than once) and with the contract, he's not going to pursue them.

And to try and keep this topic from getting derailed again: if you've got some belief that Ranma and co are "destined" to get their canonical curses if they ever vist Jusenkyo, I don't want to hear it, alright? I don't give a flying fig farm why you have that theory, and I couldn't possibly care any less about it than I already do. If you have a genuine reason as to why Genma would, knowing what Jusenkyo does, still head there, then that's fine; that's on topic. Arguments that it doesn't matter when, where, how or why Ranma or whoever enters Jusenkyo, they're still going to get their canonical curse, those are not on topic, I don't want to waste time squabbling on them, alright? Just keep 'em to yerself. You can believe that's what would happen if you want, but it's not relevant to this topic - this is a thought exercise on what Genma would do in general with foreknowledge, not a debate on how/why everyone absolutely has to get the same curses no matter what.
Water, water, everywhere, and all was cursed and black!
Drowned ones cast bad spell and out come pig, girl, duck, panda!
Swirl, swirl, slithery pond, and join with magic spring!
Swirl, swirl, dirty pond, and rid the cursed sting!
Here my prayer, I beg you please!
Now turn these curses BACK!

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http://www.issendai.com/rpgs/japanese-girls-names.shtml
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Re: What If: Genma got foreknowledge?

Postby Wyrd » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:00 pm

Discussing particular details of a post is relevant to the thread that post is a part of. This didn't exactly go off for multiple pages on barely related arguments. It didn't even make it to one page of related arguments. Would you mind toning down your posts just a bit, please? It does bother me a bit, and is unlikely to encourage any positive posts.

That said, certain details need to posited before likely outcomes can be hypothesized. If Genma learned that it was necessary that they get cursed along with getting the knowledge, he would likely spend a lot of time trying to find a way to weasel out of getting cursed, even if he could only avoid it for himself. If he only had canon knowledge, and knowledge that can be directly and unequivicably reasoned from that canon, then I would expect him either to avoid Jusenkyo entirely, or, thinking of how effective Taro can be, try to intentionally inflict Ranma with a useful curse. Jusenkyo choosing people's curses would be important at this point if it caused them to get their canon curses despite his efforts to change things, or even better gave Ranma his canon curse but gave a different one to Genma because of the changes to his own character caused by his foreknowledge. I even read one fic where Genma did try to deliberately avoid Jusenkyo, only to find one day that he was camped above it despite this meaning that it was in a totally different location, or that he had navigated like Ryouga. He managed to avoid getting cursed by not going in himself, but Ranma insisted on checking out the training ground they had come so far to see and still got cursed.

Should Genma gain the knowledge early enough, I expect he would avoid the Nekoken unless he thought he had found a better version of it or figured out a way to train Ranma without the downsides. This doesn't mean that Ranma would get a perfected Nekoken, merely that Genma is arrogant enough that if he thought he had devised a better version of the training he might put Ranma through it anyway, even knowing how badly it turned out the first time.

If he kept track of it, he might only sell Ranma as a fiance to those families who never came looking to cash in. This is another area where individual interpretations of Genma could result in radically different predicted behaviours. Genma is often portrayed as being unable to think ahead except in a very broad sense, especially when he is hungry. I could see him repeating a lot of his mistakes and then the next morning remembering that he had meant to avoid that particular piece of idiocy, except that he got too caught up in the moment and reacted exactly the same.

Unless you are going for a version of Genma that is much brighter than I tend to view him, I don't see his knowledge causing him to make all that many changes to his actions. After all, his foreknowledge would include the fact that he succeeded in training the best martial artist of his generation, or at least one of the best, since at that level fights are as much a matter of luck as skill because their defense and offense are so close to flawless that the fight lasts until a random event favors one side. His tendency to be a bit of a con artist could come forth as he tried to capitalize on some of his future knowledge to make a profit, but he doesn't seem the sort to pay enough attention to the right things that he would remember the specific details that would most allow him to make a lot of money.
Wyrd
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