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Some observations on Junsenkyo area and personal theories

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:02 pm
by antimatterenergy
Part of this has already been posted at Xero Reflux Strikes Forum in the Ranma section of fanfiction.net, but there are things added and minor changes.
For starters there are at least 4 separate villages/peoples that live in the general area.
Group one - Amazons which Cologne, Shampoo, Mouse, and Shampoo's dad come from.
Group two - Musk may live farther away from Junsenkyo but still in the area.
Group three - Phoenix people
Group four - The often forgotten girls Pink and Link are said to be from a neighboring village called Yakusai. Not the same village as Shampoo.
Facts.
- All four villages/ groups use magic.
- groups 1-3 practice martial arts. Whether group 4 practices martial arts is unknown besides pink and link.
- Groups 1,3, and 4 use mind control. (Amazons have memory manipulating shampoo, remote control pressure points, hypnosis mushrooms, and suggestion incense. Phoenix use some type of magic eggs. Yakusai use plants that are able to manipulate people.) Whether the musk uses mind control is unknown.
- All four groups use little to no modern technology.
- Groups 1 and 4 have at least basic trade since that is where Shampoo went to get herbs and ran into pink and link the first time.
- Groups 2 and 3 mostly keep to themselves and look down on regular humans.
- All four groups have a fairly low population.
- Magic is common place enough to at least the amazons that they have magical toy's.
- Groups 1-3 practice or had in the past practiced some types of Eugenics. (Amazons outsider marriage laws pretty much define this, and groups 2 and 3 used Junsenkyo for that purpose)
- Possible that the villages use magic to keep themselves hidden away from the majority of the human population. Doesn't have to be a lot, a compulsion to stay away from the area and mind controlling the few people who ignore the compulsion and do come into the area would be enough. Especially since it's a remote area with little that most people who didn't know about Junsenkyo or the people who live in the area would want to go to anyways. As for the government all they would have to do is use some mind control on some of the top officials with the suggestion that there is nothing in the area worth investigating.
Possible holes in my theories corrections:
- Genma's guidebook - The guidebook doesn't have to have been an official one it could have been made by someone and then given to Genma. Another possibility is that it wasn't a guide book at all. Since it was in Chinese (maybe not even in a common dialect) and Genma doesn't read Chinese. It could of been a guide/map of places to avoid while in China.
-The guide dressed as a government worker. The guide doesn't have to work for the Chinese government. The amazons, musk, pink and links people, or another unknown party could be the ones who hired him. That might not be a government uniform and if it is it could just be so that people will listen to him and think he is a government official. After explaining the curse he might of been told to convince the cursed victim to go to the amazon village or another village so that the cursed individuals can be dealt with properly. Also when you look at how nice his house is it is doubtful that he is being paid by the communist Chinese government or that if they are that they are the only ones paying him.
Things that are mainly my opinion or are inferred.
- all villages most likely have more and more powerful magical items then were shown in the manga. The most powerful objects would probably never leave the villages and would most likely be limited to a few individuals of the tribe. (Doubt Cologne would leave the village with the most powerful objects or that we saw all the objects she had with her, Herb didn't see any need to bring any magical objects beside the ladle, Doubtful Pink and Link would be allowed to take the most powerful objects in the tribe, and the Phoenix may not of had the time to get the objects or more likely didn't see a need too since Saffron with the object he had should be enough to stop most people)
- The majority of Amazons do not know about Junsenkyo. If they did then Shampoo would have known more about the springs and the people of the village would have probably recognized the Junsenkyo guide and assumed that the panda was a cursed person.
- It is inferred that the Phoenix know more about Junsenkyo pools than the other tribes. I think Kima actually says it but I'm unsure.
- Group 1, 4, the Junsenkyo guide, or another unknown group have an organization known as Jusenkyö commercial goods. That is where the instant cursed water and water proof soap came from. Some of the other magical items may of came from there as well. Since most of the Ranma 1/2 world doesn't seem to know about magic this organization most likely has some type of screening process and likely only sells to people who have been touched by magic. (In the fanfiction I plan on writing Ranma will use magical items and this is where he will purchase many of them from.)
-Very few people have curses/visited Junsenkyo who weren't from the local area probably less than 100 because Taro was able to track down most of them while trying to find Happosai.
Knowledge on Junsenkyo itself.
- water comes from a mountain called Junsendo.
- unknown amount of springs but there are a lot.
- unknown temperature needed to revert back to uncursed state but is higher than body temperature.
- Water can effect descendants of cursed person to some degree (as shown by Musk and Phoenix people)
- Transformation is fast and painless
List of springs I wrote down while I last read the manga probably incomplete:
frog
Girl
Panda
Piglet
Cat
Duck
Yeti-riding-a-Bull-holding-a-Crane-and-Eel
Boy (child)
Ashura
Twins
Virtuous-Man
Octopus
Akane
man
Inferred or my opinion.
- not every person or thing can actually get to the springs. If they could their would be a lot more cursed people/things. Oh and about the crows that got turned into frogs that was at a time when the Phoenix people where messing with the water.
- springs do not effect insects and inanimate objects.
- Possible that the pools are Semi-sentient or have a being of power guiding them and choose who gets cursed though a person determined or powerful enough maybe able to get to them anyways. This opinion can be slightly backed in that the curses seem to reflect the persons personality to a degree.
- Possible that the pools protect themselves
- Curse make the cursed person a water magnet.
- Curses mix unless body is fully covered with the water. Another possibility if sprayed with cursed water while in cursed form they mix, if sprayed in uncursed form new curse takes over. (Unclear what form Taro was in or how much water was used because we learned about it second hand from the guide and it's possible he told it wrong)
- Possible that a person can learn a way to master the curse.

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:33 am
by antimatterenergy
After further thought brought on by a comment in the polls section (most of this is in the poll section as well) I decided to remove the line where I said the amazons are matriarchal.
The reason for the change is because we do not know enough about amazon culture and are only shown four amazons so I can not tell anything about whether they're Matriarchal, Patriarchal, or neutral.
We assume they are matriarchal because of the village's name but we have no proof one way or the other. We also have no proof that males are second class citizens because we aren't shown any males besides Mouse who they don't respect because of his actions and Shampoo's dad which the author of the manga didn't feel like giving screen time.
If they were militaristically matriarchal they would not allow Mouse to have become as powerful a martial artist as he is or teach males any techniques that could in some way make males superior to females and a threat to the ruling body.

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:58 am
by A.Nonymous
Also, Herb's bride came from a neighboring kingdom. Although from the size of Herb's kingdom I'd probably call it a village.
Also, the Seven Lucky Gods school and the Knights of Jusenkyo from the area as well?

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:18 am
by antimatterenergy
I'm going by manga only I haven't seen enough of the anime to include it and for Herb's bride all we know is that she's from a neighboring village but we don't know which it's possible that she is from the amazon village or pink and links village or a village that while somewhat close to the musk is far enough away from Junsenkyo that it isn't counted as being close to it.

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:02 pm
by WG_Writer
antimatterenergy wrote:I'm going by manga only I haven't seen enough of the anime to include it and for Herb's bride all we know is that she's from a neighboring village but we don't know which it's possible that she is from the amazon village or pink and links village or a village that while somewhat close to the musk is far enough away from Junsenkyo that it isn't counted as being close to it.

It is unlikely to be either the Amazons or their neighboring village. The Amazons, or atleast Cologne, was surprised the Musk still existed, and if either village was going to be trying to bring closer ties to the Musk I am sure Cologne would at least be aware of their existance.
Although the one informing Herb of the situtation reminds me of Saffron's advisor sans wings. but that is just speculation on my part.

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:16 pm
by bissek
Here's a theory on why Taro had his curse merge instead of replace. If you get dunked with COLD Jusenkyo water when you are already cursed, your body attempts to turn into the original cursed form, and also attempts to turn into the new cursed form. Since it isn't possible for a person to have two cursed forms, you get a new cursed form which is a fusion of both curses.
If one is dunked with WARM Jusenkyo water, one would be afflicted with a curse while trying to shift into an uncursed form. The victim would shift to (or stay in) his/her original form until contact with cold water is made. Since the first curse is inactive when the second curse comes in, the first curse is replaced with the second instead of merging.
Of course, any member of the NWC who got access to a cure would never think of this, so any attempt to cure themselves would result in a mess.

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:57 pm
by Cheb
That might not be a government uniform and if it is it could just be so that people will listen to him and think he is a government official.

Or he may just like it. Many military uniforms/elements of uniforms are so comfortable to wear and durable that common civilians prefer to wear them in everyday life if they get a chance to get them. [tugs at the collar of his old shirt designed for soviet army officers]
Note: Ranma liked to wear it *too*. And I don't think the old maoist uniform would have any official meaning in the modern China. Hell, they could have manufactured so many of them that now sell from the old military warehouses at a very low price!

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:22 pm
by Cheb
Especially since it's a remote area with little that most people who didn't know about Junsenkyo or the people who live in the area would want to go to anyways. As for the government all they would have to do is use some mind control on some of the top officials with the suggestion that there is nothing in the area worth investigating.

I did sometime ago compare the Jusendo/Jusekyou area with a Chinese Chechnya. I just remember the story my father told me. He visited Chechnya once, very long time ago, and the people who were receiving him (they were from the local management, so to speak, so they knew what goes on and where) gave him the advice: Do *not* delve deep into mountains - with "Nobody could guarantee your safety there" implied. And that was when USSR was at its strongest - two murders/month in a big city considered extraordinary, the weapons contros so tight taht one lost shell on the shooting-ground was searched for by entire unit, all soldiers combing each grass blade... But the soviet power ended where the mountains began. Such is this landscapa and the people who live here - their clan is on the first place for them, not any governments.
So, the Jusenkyou area looks very similar to this. The Chinese government may have only a nominal power there.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:22 am
by lwf58
antimatterenergy wrote:We assume they are matriarchal because of the village's name but we have no proof one way or the other. We also have no proof that males are second class citizens because we aren't shown any males besides Mouse who they don't respect because of his actions and Shampoo's dad which the author of the manga didn't feel like giving screen time.

Not true. In volume three, when Ranma and Genma are taken to Joketsuzoku, there are men mixed in with the women in the only crowd scene. Using the American print run of August, 1994, the scene in question is on page 111. It's where Ranma kicks Shampoo off the log. I counted about five men, and they are fairly easy to distinguish from the women because the men wear caps and the women don't. In that scene, they are standing the in front of the crowd on one side of the log, while on the other side are girls only, some of whom are holding weapons. A guess would be that the side with the men and women mixed is for spectators, and the side where there are only girls would be for participants.
Shampoo's father shows up at the Nekohanten later in the series, and IIRC, while he's a cook and non-combatant, Cologne does not treat him like he's just a servant. She's polite to him.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:38 pm
by A.Nonymous
I read a story called, I think, "A Pond of Koi" where one of the koi in the Tendo pond got turned into a girl with instant (permanent) water.
My question is that if that would work wouldn't all the koi in the pond have been turned into boys when Ranma got the instant boy water from Shampoo and used it on the koi pond?
Also, what's the criteria for getting "cursed?" Obviously insects or bacteria aren't getting cursed by the billions at Jusenkyo so either there's some sort of magic that keeps it from happening. The pools look pretty dead, no plants growing around them, so it might be some sort of barrier that keeps small living things away, or it might be that only "higher" life forms can be cursed...but then how did a pool of the drowned octopus get created... And where did that Yeti get an eel?
I can see Taro carrying an octopus to Jusenkyo and making his own pool.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:05 pm
by antimatterenergy
The crane and eel were probably going to be the yeti's lunch and the bull was it's form of transportation. It may have been a fresh water eel found in a river somewhere near Jusenkyo.
Jusenkyo itself is probably an artificial creation since it appears that the water is pumped to there from Junsendo since the reason that jusenkyo dried up was because the phoenix people rerouted it source to create the transformation pond Saffron needed to reach his adult form.. The Phoenix and dragon taps were ancient and incredibly tough Ryoga was pounding on them and tried to use the breaking point on it and it didn't even scratch.
An octopus may count as a higher life-form since it is said that Octopuses are as smart as house cats.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:28 pm
by bissek
Most plausible explanation I can think of for Spring of Drowned Octopus:
The next spring over is the Spring of Drowned Travelling Seafood Salesman (or Drowned Aquarium Supplier).

Re: Some observations on Junsenkyo area and personal theorie

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:45 pm
by lwf58
antimatterenergy wrote:-The guide dressed as a government worker. The guide doesn't have to work for the Chinese government. The amazons, musk, pink and links people, or another unknown party could be the ones who hired him. That might not be a government uniform and if it is it could just be so that people will listen to him and think he is a government official. After explaining the curse he might of been told to convince the cursed victim to go to the amazon village or another village so that the cursed individuals can be dealt with properly. Also when you look at how nice his house is it is doubtful that he is being paid by the communist Chinese government or that if they are that they are the only ones paying him.

The Guide isn't dressed in a government uniform. Men in China used wear that style of clothing as a matter of course, and in Ranma, men dressed that way are visible in Joketsuzoku scenes. If you've ever seen travelogues of China, you can see many civilian men wearing the style in real life.
The style is called a "Mao Suit" in the west, and in China it's called a "Zhongshan Suit". They originated around 1912, and after the Communist Revolution in China, were pretty much required dress if you wanted to show allegiance to the Communist Party. (Or look like you were.)
Mao Suits have been going out of style in recent decades, now that China is trading with the west and better, more varied and colorful clothing is becoming readily available.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_suit

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:26 am
by Cheb
Jusenkyo itself is probably an artificial creation

Or it may be a sort of magical waste dump from the mt. Phoenix.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:33 am
by Neko-
Or it may be a sort of magical waste dump from the mt. Phoenix.

This is untrue. It's stated in the manga that the bird-like qualities of the Mt Phoenix people are a result of the magical influences of Jusenkyo. (atleast... I recall that was stated)
As such the theory that Jusenkyo is a waste-result of Mt. Phoenix is untrue.