My views on who Ranma loves and why he won't choose someone

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My views on who Ranma loves and why he won't choose someone

Postby antimatterenergy » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:57 pm

Part of this has already been posted at Xero Reflux Strikes Forum in the Ranma section of fanfiction.net, but there are things added and minor changes.
My views on who Ranma loves:
No one. He doesn't know what love is and has nothing to use as an example. He has a large crush on Akane but I don't think he actually loves her and I get the feeling that sometimes he hates her.
He may have loved his father sometime in the past but by the start of the manga he doesn't or at most he loves his father like an older brother you don't particularly like but respect.
He desperately wants to love his mom but he is afraid of her (with good reason the seppuku pledge even if she isn't serious about it he saw her dream about it and she did have him prepare for it). He tries so hard to please her because he wants her to love him and he wants to love her but as it is in the manga he doesn't love her.
As for the other fiancées and other people he may love them somewhat but no more than friends. Though he probably considers every single person he knows as his friends.
Who will Ranma marry? I don't know but Ranma doesn't seem to care enough about honor to marry someone that he doesn't love. Also Ranma is only 16 and does not want to marry anyone until he is older. Who ever Ranma does marry will have to get used to the fact that weird things happen around Ranma. Both Ranma and the person or people he marries (multiple people isn’t likely but the way Ranma’s life is wouldn’t really surprise many people) would have to first and foremost have to actually talk to Ranma. Many of the reasons that Ranma and his fiancées don't get along is because they don't really talk to Ranma. They rarely if ever bother to listen to Ranma or see things from his point of view. Ranma also doesn't bother to see things from their point of view either. Uyko, Shampoo, Kodachi, and Akane all have their own views as to what they're future would be like and never even ask Ranma what he wants. I doubt Ranma ever even really thinks about the future at all and I would make a bet that no one has ever asked him what he wants to do with his life.
Though now that I think about the person he would most likely marry would be Akane. My opinion though is if they married immediately after the manga or the wedding wasn’t interrupted it would be a very bad thing. Akane is definitely in the lead. She has several fairly large advantages over the other fiancees such as living with him, spending more time with him then the other fiancees, parents on her side, He has a crush on her (why I don't know but I think it has to do with how she was the first person to be nice to him in awhile and she occasionally tries and help him moreso than anyone else in the manga), longest engagement, being the first girl he even contemplated marrying, first memories of her aren't of her being a boy, trying to kill him, or paralysing him and leaving him helpless etc... I just believe that Ranma can easily go with someone else no matter what point in the manga even the exact end. It would not take a lot for one of the other fiancees or some other person to take the lead. He is also very possessive of Akane.
A few reasons Ranma doesn't pick anyone to marry are (Though I doubt Ranma spent much time thinking about these he would most likely know about and have thought about some of these at least in passing):
-Doesn't Really know what love is or loves anyone
-Too Young
-spends little to no time thinking of the future
-major intimacy issues
-Though Ranma and Genma may not care about this a lot if Ranma doesn't marry Akane (or a Tendo since the agreement never specified which tendo) he can be disowned by his family, be scorned by the community, as well as losing his rights to practice his particular school of Martial Arts (though Ranma would probably keep on practicing it anyways). I don't see Gemna disowning Ranma (may threaten to, to get his way) but Ranma's mom might. Of course she might just tell Ranma to kill himself or marry Akane.
-Doesn't know for sure that any of them actually love him and Ranma does not want a loveless marriage. EX. Is Shampoo doing it because of her village laws or because she loves him? Yes the reversal jewel shows that she loves him but does Ranma know that (we don't know what if anything Ranma was told by cologne about it and we don't know if Ranma believed her or not).
-His curse. Ranma sees his curse as a disability. Whether it is or isn't Ranma sees it as one. Disabilities are looked down upon in Japan in general and Ranma may consider it to be an obstacle to a happy marriage. This one can be backed up by the manga because Akane always calls Ranma a pervert and sometimes it's only because he's a boy who can change into a girl. In volume 8 Akane says during the time Ranma is trying to get into the girls locker room to get the Japanese spring of drowned man "and I used to think only your body was sick and twisted..." You know people are always saying how Ranma says cruel things well Akane says a lot of really cruel things as well and in my opinion the cruel things she says are generally worse than the ones Ranma says.
-Amazons. The amazons are a major threat. If Ranma married someone besides Shampoo what would the amazons do? Ranma knows that the amazons have magical items, ki techniques probably some he doesn't know, and has pretty harsh laws. Shampoo has shown that she can be pretty ruthless, if Ranma married someone else would the Amazons/Shampoo kill the person he married and brainwash him so that he didn't even know that he had gotten married? (Personally I don't see this as overly likely but is cannonly valid.)
The following Ranma is even less likely to have ever thought about but he may have.
-Shampoo was punished by being thrown into Junsenkyo for not killing Ranma what punishment if there is even a punishment would Shampoo get for not marrying him. (Personally I don't believe there is a major punishment because the amazons most likely won't force Amazons to marry someone against their will and if they did then it's most likely have a kid to bring the genes into the tribe then dump/kill/brainwash the person.)
-Uyko. If Ranma doesn't marry her what would she do? Go back to trying and kill Ranma. Kill the person he marries. Maybe even get depressed and kill herself. I don't think Uyko would kill herself but Ranma's sometimes arrogant enough to think she might if he didn't marry her. (Ranma isn't arrogant all the time sometimes it is shown that he has low self-esteem and he is occasionally humble.)
-Akane. Ranma has seen and noticed that Akane gets jealous. As well as hits him when she is angry. What reaction would Akane have to him marrying someone else?
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naaahh, i disagree

Postby Atlan » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:51 am

He may have loved his father sometime in the past but by the start of the manga he doesn't or at most he loves his father like an older brother you don't particularly like but respect.

I disagree. In the manga, he listens to his dad, always goes to him first for advice, and generally looks up to him. Even the way that ranma beats his dad for being stupid is him showing his love- after all, Genma does the exact same thing.
He has a crush on her (why I don't know but I think it has to do with how she was the first person to be nice to him in awhile and she occasionally tries and help him moreso than anyone else in the manga), longest engagement, being the first girl he even contemplated marrying, first memories of her aren't of her being a boy, trying to kill him, or paralysing him and leaving him helpless etc... I just believe that Ranma can easily go with someone else no matter what point in the manga even the exact end. It would not take a lot for one of the other fiancees or some other person to take the lead.

In the manga, I think he loves her. And i think she loves him, and not in the borderline obsesive way the other three do. When ranma shows sings of loving a girl, lets pretend akari (to free up the other four for analisys) is the one. Kodachi would come after her with a whip, saying something about "stealing ranma-sama". Shampoo would break things, threaten her with death, and then opt for more subtle tactics. Ukyo would yell upt about being the cute feiance, but Akane always reacts differently tho the others. First, she would get mad. Once she saw that ranma was serious, not doing it to get into akari's pants, she would get sad, then leave him be (already seen with when ranma got stuck with nabiki, and again with ukyo and the ultimate sauce incident).
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Postby antimatterenergy » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:10 am

I believe that Ranma respects his dad as a martial artist but not so much as a person. The main reason Ranma generally goes to his dad for advice is because he spent most of his life with his dad and is just used to going to him for advice. He does love his dad some what but Ranma seems to love everyone a little I just think that he loves his father more like an older brother you don't particularly like but respect.
As for Akane, Ranma definately has a crush on her and Akane has many advantages over everyone else in the manga from spending the most time with him, to having the most people rooting for her, to having a good first impression of her (asking to be a friend when he didn't have any), etc... But I think it as being more a crush than true love. Ranma doesn't really know what love is and he doesn't really respect Akane. He never appears to talk to akane about important things just small talk. He doesn't confide in her. Ranma and Akane are at least friends though. If you wanted to split up Ranma and Akane it would not be very difficult. If you want I could post a list of possible ways to split them up that I had posted on another forum all of which do not go against cannon or demonize Akane or Ranma. Also Akane is shown repeatedly that she does not trust Ranma and will accept what other people say over what Ranma says. (major example Ryoga could list examples but don't believe it is needed)
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Postby TerraEpon » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:05 pm

Ranma's love for Akane is much more simple than that, IMO.
It's puppy love. You know, "that boy is mean to you because he likes you" sort of thing. Ranma really IS a child in a teen's body half the time.
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Postby Innortal » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:01 am

Very true on all accounts.
First off: I'll admit I am very anti-Akane. If the gender roles were reversed, people would not be supporting the pairing where the guy beats the girl when they get into an arguement.
Ranma does have some issues. He latches onto anything that might be a positive relationship. He thought him and Ryoga were friends, still supported Akane even after she knocked him out with the table (another fault of hers: she escalates the fights to violence).
Why does he go to Genma? As things stand, Ranma would be incapable of providing for himself, with almost no education, no teaching certificate for Anything Goes, let alone any job prospects in the future. He has almost zero skills to relate to anything aside from his chosen love of martial arts. Simple, programmed reaction. Does anyone doubt Genma wanted to control Ranma on some points? Genma rarely gets involved unless it threatens him. He held off on the Forbidden techniques until he was in danger, made a deal with Saffron, made a deal with Kodachi--somehow getting Soun to believe it would work out for Soun's agreement in the end--and even started the Amazon problem by not offering to fight Shampoo himself.
Well, the last one ain't certain, I'll admit that. But as a teacher, he never took responsibility for his pupil. He pulled a Happosai 2.0 on Ranma most of the time, shifting all blame to him.
As for honor?
If one single fiancee manages to have a written contract with the Saotome seal, then Ranma is going to have to marry that one: written agreements are easier to prove in court than oral ones.
If you go that all oral agreements are valid, than Genma has destroyed the family honor of the Saotome clan. Nothing Ranma does one way or another will change that. Despite the fact many discount Ukyo because she gambled away the cart, there is but one simple fact: she never owned it to offer it. That makes her loss to the Gambler King irrelavant.
Personal honor dictates Ranma has to marry Shampoo, due to his challenge in the Reversal Jewel incident. He did make an official marriage challenge. Many fanfics have offered ways for Ranma to get out of that (Mousse challenges him and he loses (if Ranma's ego can be put on hold), RJ challenge didn't count because magic was involved, etc...), but no definite listing of Amazon Laws has been made so we have proof of one way or another.
Sort of like Taro v. the creator's comment that Drowned Man would cure Ranma. If so, then why did Taro's new curse combine with his old one?
As for the other girls; I refer to a comment made in another fanfic. They aren't in love with Ranma, they're in love with the idea of being in love with him. They show little care for his wants and problems unless:
A.) It will interfere in their plans for him.
B.) It will help in their plans for him.
Akane? She is too unsure of herself and always seeking dominance over Ranma. They have too many of the same vices, not enough of the same virtues. In the anime, I've rarely seen her train intensly to defeat Ranma. If she loses to another martial artist (Diggery-doo), then she puts herself into intense training. The fact that she rarely supports Ranma in the fight (helped Ryoga with Breaking Point, despite the fact she knew what he was going to do with it) further hurts her view in my eyes. Both of them, while emotionally immature, have many faults.
I'm not saying Ranma is perfect. We all can agree the guy loves attention due to not receiving much of it or acknowledgement growing up.
Who should he marry if not a labeled fiancee?
Kasumi? Nope. I agree with the majority that she and Tofu would be perfect if their characters had developed.
Nabiki? As she was portrayed, no way. We were left with too many open questions: where does all that money go to in the series, why does she have so little, and how much of what she does is an act, are some of the questions. While she was called the closest that the NWC had to an evil character, we all know Happosai, the fathers, and the Kunos were far worse than her.
Ryoga? Hell no. There are way too many issues there.
So who? Not a single one of them. He has not been exposed to any means of knowing what true love is. He did once say he loved Akane, but we're never really certain what type of love that is.
Then again, that is why Ranma 1/2 is one of the best series to do crossovers with. Each of us could name at least five series that have women that would be better pairings for Ranma, simply because they are the types to care and want to show him what he's missing.
Who should he marry if he has to?
My opinion has always been Nabiki. She is almost the total opposite of Ranma in all the ways that matter, and could easily bring him up to the levels where he might be of value past the art. However, that would require her to make an emotional connection that she rarely offers in the series. If she did, then you could bet she would find a way out of the Amazon Laws, force him to break the hearts of the others (Ranma doesn't like people upset with him accept for authority figures), and break him of his little warped world view that Genma instilled in him.
Would that really work?
Don't ask me. Logic has no place in the Ranma-verse.
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Postby Zwzn » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:45 pm

Innortal wrote: If you go that all oral agreements are valid, than Genma has destroyed the family honor of the Saotome clan. Nothing Ranma does one way or another will change that. Despite the fact many discount Ukyo because she gambled away the cart, there is but one simple fact: she never owned it to offer it. That makes her loss to the Gambler King irrelavant.
By this reasoning the Tendo's never lost the dojo.
Innortal wrote: Personal honor dictates Ranma has to marry Shampoo, due to his challenge in the Reversal Jewel incident. He did make an official marriage challenge. Many fanfics have offered ways for Ranma to get out of that (Mousse challenges him and he loses (if Ranma's ego can be put on hold), RJ challenge didn't count because magic was involved, etc...), but no definite listing of Amazon Laws has been made so we have proof of one way or another.
Ranma never beat Shampoo during the Reversal Jewel incident, and the first time Ranma beat her she agreed that him beating her would not cause anyone problems. So everyone who was at the tournament is dishonorable, or Shampoo went back on her word.
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Postby Togashi Gaijin » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:45 pm

Innortal wrote:Sort of like Taro v. the creator's comment that Drowned Man would cure Ranma. If so, then why did Taro's new curse combine with his old one?

Because the creator - Takahashi - said so ... and it's easy to come up with a "Theory Of Operation" that accounts for both behaviors (cure/mix). See my comments in the Some thoughts on Jusenkyo thead for details.
Rules Of Canon Behaviour:
-------------------------------
#1) The original author is always right.
#2) If the original author creates something that doesn't make logical sense - see Rule #1
#3) A character's behavior must be analyzed using the author's home country's views, ethics, society, and legal system.
#4) If a reader attempts to use an American/European/whatever mindset to analyze a Japanese character's behavior - see rule #3
I bring these "Rules" up because of the "prove in court" comment amongst others. Using the court & legal system to enforce family agreements is an American tactic, not a Japanese one. Americans put a great deal on the "Rule of Law" bit. The Japanese legal system operates mostly on the "Rule of Custom" - which means that nearly all non-criminal "legal problems" are solved well before they actually get to the court system.
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Postby antimatterenergy » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:00 pm

I disagree with Ranma not being able to take care of himself. The opposite is in actuality true. Ranma would be forced to plan ahead and would quickly improve himself in many ways. Ranma should have stopped relying on anyone but himself a while ago.
The reason I believe he would be able to take care of himself is simple first Ranma has had part time jobs and it is implied that it is not uncommon for Ranma to get one.
Second Ranma has all the required skills needed to take care of one self except maybe common sense. He can cook, clean, sew, etc...
Ranma also does have marketable skills besides martial arts. Ranma is very good at repair work, has enough knowledge on cleaning to get a job as a housekeeper, could become a chef if he spent any significant time training, enough raw ability and skill to become a professional athlete in just about any sport with a little training, would make a killing if he went into demolition work, would make a damn good assasin, good enough looking at least in female form to be a model, Ranma has enough raw knowledge but not school education to work as a physical theropist (learned from getting back in shape after being injured and displayed by knowing at least basic information on the human body, at least enough to know how to hit someone and not injure them and where the bodies weak spots are, and field medic (from having to fix his own injuries with bandages, watching doctors fix him up after sustaining injuries requiring doctor visits, and shown in manga that he has at least some knowledge on herbal remedies) etc... Ranma may have a teaching certificate in another school of martial arts or be able to get one from another teacher fairly quickly since Gemna wasn't the only one to train Ranma and Ranma may have trained with someone else and learned enough of their school to warrant a teachers certificate. I can list more marketable talents he has shown throughout the manga but that should be enough.
Ranma even without the umisenken could become a very accomplished thief if he so choose. Especially when you consider it would be easy for him to get away from most police forces, given a little time no wall could possibly stop him, and he was stealthy enough to sneak up on Cologne before learning the Umisenken.
Ranma also appears to be skilled enough to live off the land in the wild pretty comfortably. (can catch whatever animal or fish he wanted, knows how to find and make shelters, can make a fire pretty easily, knows at least some plants as being edible, etc...)
Even though Ranma goes to his dad for advice it's usually about martial arts which you have to admit his dad is very good at. Ranma does not actually take the advice everytime either. Another question who else could Ranma go to for advice. Happosai? yeah but no advice happosai gives could be good for Ranma. Cologne? She'd want something in return. Fiancees? aren't skilled enough in martial arts to give him advice and have alternative motives. Rivals? he'd be really stupid to go to them for advice. Nabiki? Maybe if she didn't want to much money in return or finds it more amusing to give him bad advice. Kasumi? maybe but hasn't displayed skills or talent in anything Ranma has wanted or needed advice on. Dr Tofu? I don't think Ranma trusts TOfu to ask for advice not pertaining to medicine and maybe not even then (because Dr. Tofu purposely disabled Ranma's legs, tends to use painful techniques while healing Ranma, the way he acts around Kasumi, and may see Dr Tofu as a rival for Akane's affection)
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Postby Mari » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:13 pm

I maybe new but I would like to say something.
Ranma is already married to martial arts. It's his real true love because Genma was the one who introduced it to Ranma.
That's why he could never choose any of his fiancees because if he did he would never practice martial arts ever again. They would not let him.
Ukyo-Only wanted him to help run her restraunt. Ranma can't do martial arts while running a restraunt.
Shampoo-Only wanted Ranma as a husband/servent. Men are considered as lower class in her tribe. The males aren't allow to practice martial arts. Mousse is just an exception.
Kodachi-She would most likely to have Ranma mount and stuff so that she can keep him forever.
Akane-Even though if Ranma does inherited the Tendo Dojo, Akane would be the one running things from teaching the classes to handle the finances. Ranma would be just like a decorative piece. She would never ever ever let him practice martial arts.
These of course are just my humble hunches.
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Postby EdenB » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:57 pm

Mari wrote:Shampoo-Only wanted Ranma as a husband/servent. Men are considered as lower class in her tribe. The males aren't allow to practice martial arts. Mousse is just an exception.

Isn't this a common fannon only thing that has no basis in the manga at all? Even if it was true, I imagine they'd elavate him to good social position with how powerful he was in the end.
Mari wrote:Kodachi-She would most likely to have Ranma mount and stuff so that she can keep him forever.

I'm not sure if it was anime only, but didn't she even offer to buy him a dojo at one point? If she wasn't slightly insane, Kodachi would be a good choice because she'd proberly let Ranma do whatever he wanted as long as he chose her. Depending on how she'd react if she finally realised Ranma and his girl side were one and the same.
Mari wrote:Akane-Even though if Ranma does inherited the Tendo Dojo, Akane would be the one running things from teaching the classes to handle the finances. Ranma would be just like a decorative piece. She would never ever ever let him practice martial arts.

Again it's never really been said who'd teach in the dojo if they married. Considering the whole joining of the schools I would assume that both would teach to mix the styles, or Ranma would teach since he's the better of the two martial artists (if Akane could actually admit that anyway). Even if he didn't teach, could Akane really stop Ranma from practicing martial arts and why would she want to?
I do agree with the idea that Ranma doesn't really love any of the fiancées (or Kodachi). I doubt he'd realise what love is, though he proberly cares for them all in some way or other.
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Postby Alathon » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:15 pm

Again it's never really been said who'd teach in the dojo if they married. Considering the whole joining of the schools I would assume that both would teach to mix the styles, or Ranma would teach since he's the better of the two martial artists (if Akane could actually admit that anyway). Even if he didn't teach, could Akane really stop Ranma from practicing martial arts and why would she want to?

Well, Akane's tools for making Ranma do what she wants would probably be the same they've always been.. violence and emotional blackmail.
As for a reason, the reason that springs first to mind is that if Ranma practiced openly and especially if he taught, she'd always be playing second fiddle.
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Postby Mari » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:20 pm

EdenB and Alathon:m You're opinions are brutal but they are honest. Thank you for your responses.
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Postby P.H. Wise » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:25 pm

Although I favor the Ranma/Ukyou pairing, I would point out the following from the final issue of the manga:
**********Spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't read it************
Ranma: (speaking over Akane's seemingly lifeless body) "Over and over again, I kept trying to tell you how I really felt, but it always came out wrong. I just ended up bothering you and making you angry. But that was never what I meant to do. I wanted to tell you that I love you. Akane!"
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Postby P.H. Wise » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:30 pm

Mari wrote:Ukyo-Only wanted him to help run her restraunt. Ranma can't do martial arts while running a restraunt.

Which issues of the manga or episodes of the anime led you to this conclusion? Are there specific scenes that you can reference?
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Postby Alathon » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:20 pm

I think there's one scene in the manga that shows her fantasizing about running a restaurant along with Ranma, but it never goes any further than that. I've never really agreed with the idea that Ukyo would feel any need to inhibit Ranma's practicing of martial arts. She has goals, clearly, but they don't by definition exclude Ranma practicing, and unlike Akane, Ukyo never seems to take issue with the fact that Ranma is better than her in a fight, or feel much of a need to compete with him in that respect.
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